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Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

Discussion in 'CoS Front Groups' started by Consensus, Mar 24, 2008.

  1. Consensus Member

    Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Okay folks, I keep hearing that May's theme is going to be 'Operation Psychout.' I've talked with a number of people about it, and I'm prepared to go along with it, but I have a few objections I feel must be aired first.

    April's 'Operation Reconnect' is brilliant - it's Friendly, Loving, Compassionate Anons vs. Cold, Heartless, Homewrecker Scientology. We've already won that battle in the court of public opinion.

    When we make it 'Anon vs. CCHR', we take a BIG risk. First, people who don't know the CCHR is a CoS front organization may percieve it (by default) as 'Human Rights Advocates vs. Anonymous.' That's not good. Further, if we make it 'Psychiatry Advocates vs. Psychiatry Reformists', we'll be facing steep odds. There is a prejudice against psychology in our society, and people do feel that our children are over-medicated. Finally, the CCHR, despite being a force for evil in our society, *does* know its facts about the history of psychology. Early psychology *was* involved in eugenics programs. Early psychologists did invent brutal 'treatment' methods like electroshock therapy and lobotomies.

    This does not, however, mean that we should concede that part of the war. Rather, I propose a number of projects. First and foremost, however, I have to say:
    If you do not have specific knowledge or skills that will contribute to operations, stay away. The CCHR is ready for war here, don't go getting in a debate with them. If you are unsure of your ability to frame this debate in a way that avoids the pitfalls described in the previous paragraph, please participate in an alternative project for May. I've heard a few proposals - one thing you can do to assist without getting involved in Operation Psychout is to simply keep shining the light on the numerous CoS Front Organizations (*including* CCHR).

    So I propose the following parts to Operation Psychout:

    1)If Psychiatry has had a positive impact on your life, and you're willing to speak out about your treatment and how it helped you, you may be useful to us. I'm not sure how just yet, but please keep in touch.

    2)If you are a college student taking any psych classes, if you are a psychology major, if you are a member of your school's Psychology Club or if you have a degree in psychology, please consider e-mailing your profs. Explain what the CCHR does, explain that they are a CoS front organization, explain who Anon is, and what we're doing to help. Ask them to pass that information along to people they know. Academia is all about networking, so it should spread easily. These letters should be informal, and written to people who know you. They would not be anonymous letters.

    3) Write letters to Psychiatrists, APA big-wigs, and Directors of Mental Health Facilities in your area. These letters should relate the same information you wrote to your professors, but they'll be more formal in tone. They can be written anonymously or not anonymously.

    4) If you have read any books by prominent psychologists, neurologists, philosophers, physiologists, or even self-help gurus, write a letter to the author. The letter should demonstrate an understanding of the topic, and relate it to Anonymous. It should also explain how the CCHR is working against the education and betterment of society. This is something many of us have talked about since the beginning. I for one really look forward to relating the Anonymous phenomenon to Dennett's work on consciousness, to Malcom Gladwell's 'The Tipping Point', and other such books and ideas.

    5) We need to be prepared to counter-protest anywhere the CCHR goes, but we need such protestors to be educated on the history of Psychiatry. Having bodies is good, but the need for educated 'spokespersons' at such protests is significantly more important than at our anti-CoS protests.

    6) We will be issuing a 'Call for Papers' on the issue of Psychiatric reform. Rather than be pro-psychiatry, we're going to present ourselves as an alternative to the CCHR - we are psychology-friendly advocates of psychiatric reform. We are looking to open an honest dialogue, free of angry accusations or prejudices, on the efficacy of psychiatric drugs, therapies, and so on. We want to HELP the field of Psychiatry to improve its public image by being more effective and better understood. Our goal is to sponsor an online journal or an academic conference at some later date. In this way, we will pull the chair out from under the CCHR, and we will shed light on the fact that they *aren't* advocates for psychiatric reform, but rather, they are advocates of a 'final solution' to eliminate psychiatry and psychology from the planet. Maybe if we're lucky, some CCHR reps will even submit papers proposing such a worldview.

    7) Work to better understand the Scientific method; to understand how it applies to psychology, psychotherapy and psychiatry (and how Scientology fails to employ it at all). Work to learn the history of psychology. Work to educate others on what you've learned. Work to understand the claims the CCHR make about psychiatry, and be prepared to refute them. A lot of their claims have elements of truth, we need people skilled at hearing them out, explaining what's true, what's false, and how their worldview fails.

    If you have other ideas, submit them here. If you have a relevent skill or education, volunteer here. If you want to kick off any one of these projects, feel free to post a thread in this sub-forum. As always, I am not a leader or authority. I'm not demanding anybody participate in this, and I encourage people playing 'devil's advocate' or offering alternative ideas. I cannot take credit for the ideas in this thread, but I do believe they are the best ideas I've heard thus far, when it comes to 'Operation Psychout.'
  2. WeAreLegion Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    To be absolutely honest, I think that for May we should just extend Reconnect for a little while. It's an honest and worthwhile pursuit. Perhaps April 12th will inspire other ex-scientologists to speak out on May whateverth
  3. DeadFace Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    ^^^^^ Totally agree. Plus it's Mother's Day time. Cor, May is also National Mental Health month or some such.

    The CoS has been saying in many instances that protesters (including Anon) are paid by Psychiatry-related groups, and we may just be partially validating this to some, ESPECIALLY those IN the CoS who might be thinking of leaving.

    Someone inside saying "I was gonna leave the CoS, and the church kept saying it was psychiatry funding Anon, but I just didn't believe it. Now, my gosh! Look at them (Anon playing up psychiatry)! My church leaders were right! They're (Anon) a fraud!"

    There's gotta be better things we can get them on, without what to them would be US (instead of THEM) shooting our own feet.


    EDIT: Fair Game would be a good topic, plus it's personal now. We have our OWN stories, as well as COUNTLESS others.
  4. wrytard Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I can probably help with #1...

    I have tourette's syndrome, and while I don't currently take medication for it (I prefer the more 'homeopathic' remedies if you know what I mean . . . and a lot of self control and hard work to get it under control)... but I know people who have it a lot more severe than me, and any other option than medication to help regulate it just... isn't an option for them right now.

    It's a somewhat rare condition, but it's very noticeable... it's bad enough being diagnosed with it, but being diagnosed with something that sets you apart that not many people know about... it drives you mental not being able to understand "why" it's happening to you. Unfortunately, not many general doctors understand tourette's either, so this is sort of left to psychiatrist/therapist to explain and diagnose.

    It's not life threatening... but it's certainly a struggle and without the proper information or alternatives for treatment available, life suddenly seems quite a bit more difficult.

    Not to say I agree with throwing any kid considered "hyper" on medication for no reason (I've seen this happen to kids when simply taking sugar out of their diet had a better effect)... but it's impossible, absolutely impossible to deny that people who have debilitating mental ailments would be perfectly fine if they just "accept its a state of mind and take some special vitaminz!!1"... It's kind of impossible to do that when it's crippled your mind to the point where you think Galactic Overlord Tax Auditors are going to take you to some giant volcano and drop an H-bomb on you... em I mean... to the point where you don't know what's real, and what isn't (as is the case of some people with severe schizophrena)...

    Edit to add:

    I think the psychiatry thing would actually be important... I mean, when you consider some deaths involved people being taken off of their medication for whatever reason and then mysteriously "committing suicide" thereafter... Or how about the Perkins situation? The guy was a schizophrenic and with treatment, it could've helped him and quite possibly saved his mother's life.

    It doesn't have to be promoted in a way that is obviously "PRO-PSYCHIATRY RITALIN FOREVER WOOWOOO!!!"... but more in a way that is pro-mental health, and outlining the facts that no, certain things cannot be cured with just vitamins and drowning yourself in debt and that yes, psychiatrsts tend to be able to be the people to help you understand what the heck is going on inside your head, and how to cope with it when you and nobody else does...
  5. OneLetter Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I agree with concensus. We do need to go forward and start protesting the CCHR, as well as possibly Criminon and Narcanon, but those are two other seperate subjects. I would be willing to speak for this part of protests and the movement as one who has been and still is on drugs, specifically SSRIs, and that I have had a huge improvement in my life because of their influence. I have also gone through psychiatric counceling, etc. for other issues, and they all have helped. This is a certain topic that hits home for me and I owuld love to get behind it 100%
  6. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    CCHR demonizes mental health treatment for a profit.

    They are directly responsible for deaths of patients who should have gotten help elsewhere but were AFRAID because of CCHR's lies.

    To some degree the scientology "Orgs" are just a front group too, they are there to supply a steady streem of brainwashed minions to man the real money makers... Narconon and CCHR...

    This is what CCHR creates: The Story of Jeremy Perkins

    CCHR being Scientology in disguise, also follows a pattern of scientology of shouting their own crimes out the loudest in accusation against others...this is a trick that sociopaths use to mimic stage magic preset and misdirection... Look at the pretty girl.. nice legs? (while I do the trick)..only what they do is accuse psychiatry of DEATH! and compare them to people running death camps..


    A bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say? Especially that picture of a grenade they use.. imagery of bombing psychiatrists.. this is CCHR.

    They act a lobby arm opposing suicide prevention programs (TeenScreen)

    Another thing they do is to run adverts in free newspapers... penny saver style magazines.. seeking past mental patients who feel they were abused...or can be "convinced" that it did occur.

    Imagine... such people, homeless people, being recruited with promises of money from a lawsuit... being briefed and handled by covert hypnotists, and then become litigation ammunition for scientology's greedy lawyers...who make the bulk of the money obtained. And when the 'victim' gets their money, they get "regged" for scientology services...

    They tell them about whatever their problem is, "Scientology can HELP YOU WITH THAT."..

    Would you consider entering the mental health field knowing this operation was set up to "if possible, destroy you utterly"

    So.. keep looking at just Scientology, in a way they desire that...they even make what APPEARS to be a big deal out of it, but I promise you, you HAVEN'T seen a big deal until you take on CCHR...narconon and the rest of their frontgroups..

    IN a way they WANT you to concentrate on the Orgs. (And they can always say, you are religious bigots!) Some of us old timers have been pounding on scientology for years, public awareness was way higher after ten years of our efforts before the anonymous movement happenned.. The borg indoctrination facilities don't make any real money, the REAL action is in the frontgroups.

    LINK to Frontgroups list

    PS: Demonizing "drugs" is fallacious.. some "drugs" are chemicals that exist in your body right now, and many exist in nature... and who exactly on this earth, has the authority to make one of God's creations illegal for an inhabitant of this earth to use or possess?
  7. downstat Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    "May is Operation Psychout"

    WTF, talk about fail. Yeah, all these youthful anon are really interesting in tackling the role of Psychiatry and NCLB behavioral drug programs. I realize CCHR is a big elephant in the room, but something like Xenu for President signs would be more productive then tackling "psychs". This is DevilsA and only my opinion, I don't care what the collective decides.
  8. googoomuck Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I'm kind of nervous about us taking an explicitly pro-psychiatry stance. I like idea 3 very much, but something's missing here.

    If we are squaring up against CCHR (and I heartily think we should), we should be using the leaks. We should be using the bills they have supported, and telling the stories of people whose licenses have been revoked.

    I've been reading the leaks as much as possible- the sheer volume is overwhelming. But the overall message of the leaks is that CCHR is gaining undue audience in politics and the press.

    Should we be pulling in the affected press and politicians?

    tl;dr: I think we should take on CCHR but we need tactics that everyone can be a part of.
  9. googoomuck Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    That's kind of a crappy example. Making "Xenu for president" signs would be a *tactic* (a totally retarded tactic, but still) Developing a theme for a future project is *strategy*.

    I give a shit about CCHR. It pisses me off. I want to address it. If you think that would be counterproductive, give me a reason why.
  10. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    well, expect this psychiatric event to be picketed BY SCIENTOLOGISTS

    Here is a story of one guy, using XENU, chasing away a whole pile of SCIENTOLOGISTS who were picketing the French Embassy after they passed the Anti mental manipulation laws

    The French Legislature had just passed the Anti-Mental Manipulation Law

    Scientology was not pleased

    I got an anon telephone call alerting me.. the voice said, Is this Mr Lerma? I said yes, The Voice said: You might want to know that the scientologists are picketing the French Embassy this morning on Reservior Road.. I replied thank you VERY much, and the caller hung up.

    When I arrived, I found Sylvia Stanard, (below) OSA DSA PR DC running a bunch of Scientologist public at a choregraphed picket..

    sylvia2004-300.jpg

    So, with my paper megaphone I began reciting OTIII to them from memory.

    The scientologists were hurriedly rounded up and carted away, the picket was over, later, The french 3rd ambassor thanked me

    At one point Sylvia walked over to my car, as her rubes were being rounded up, and let slip this most memorable nugget:

    "After we finish running bob (minton) out of money we are coming for you"

    Arnie Lerma
    Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
  11. downstat Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I agree with all things CCHR as a business and lobby group. Plus using CCHR to launder church money to lobbying. But the OP is really scary. Do we really need to focus on all the Psych research and coming up with some position paper on blah blah. OP reads as psych,psych, psych, list your favorite Freud or Jung, psych. 4 & 5 are ok. Anyways all the pro-psych is not why I'm here, or to further and education on modern psychiatric practices. Plus many anon probably agree that ritalin is over Rx and it's criminal how NCLB forces it upon parents. Anyways, I was floored reading what May entails. Maybe it's for the lulz to convince Scilons that bug Pharma is driving Anonymous.

    If it was about lobby and CCHR dirty tricks, fine. Or counter-counter protests.
  12. Anon453453 Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I agree with the statement that protesting CCHR may put us in hot water.

    I agree with a poster in a seperate thread that we should protest against the wholr scientology 'spider web', not just one organisation. We should point out how it uses different organisations to further it's own goal. We have quite a list from the well known Narconon, CCHR, to YHR, Drug Free Ambassadors/Martials, ABLE, WISE.

    What concerns me with these organisations is how they present themselves. Particuarly the Drug Free groups who have been handing booklets to school children. My question is, are they representing themselves as a secular organisation?

    Given that in some countries the police have been involved surely we can confirm some of this.

    I agree though that there is no need to hurry away from Operation: Reconnect.
  13. Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    This might be in bad taste, and I'd completely understand why we might not/should not go this direction, but...

    VICTIM OF
    PSYCHIATRY

    <picture of victim>
    OR VICTIM OF
    SCIENTOLOGY?

    We can attack CCHR by pointing out the CoS mothership's awful fucking lack of respect for Human Rights. Psychiatry, psychology, mood-altering drugs, whatever, they don't even have to be mentioned.


    edited to remove Lisa; I knew it was disrespectful, body thetans made me do it.
  14. Plups Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    We're not pro-psychs. WE'RE PRO-MENTAL HEALTH!

    The name of the Op needs reviewing, IMHO. It's negative.

    We do need to highlight CoS's abuses of the mentally ill, as most clearly demonstrated by the Introspection Rundowns - ie. Martine Boublil (2008) and Lisa McPherson (1995). (Remember, CoS was charged with abuse/neglect of a disabled person.)

    But plenty of other practices of CoS diminish mental health:

    Discontinuation of medication without medical supervision
    RPF - food deprivation and sleep deprivation
    Knowledge Reports (no privacy)
    Removal of support networks, including keeping parents from children
    Lengthy interrogations (eg Kendra Wiseman's eight month confessional)
    RPF/EPF lack of recreation (7 day working week)

    A cure for psychosis - sounds like practising medicine (or psychology) without a licence to me.

  15. UnknownEntity Member

  16. Plups Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I feel that the use of Lisa's autopsy photos is disrespectful and may be distressing to Lisa's friends (and possibly family) who lurk/post here. I'd be most grateful if you'd self-censor that image - for this board anyway.
  17. Persephone Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!


    Agreed. CCHR is too big a beast right now to tackle. Maybe later on in the year, but not yet. We're still growing. After we plateau this may be a good thing to go after, but I'm not entirely comfortable with operation Psychout.
  18. pokeanon Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I apologize for not reading everything just yet, but I may be of some help. For one, I have been in touch with several legitimate mental health organizations (thread here: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/showthread.php?t=2576 ) and I have had positive reactions from CHADD, AACAP, and ASAN. The APA, MHA, and NAMI all either didn't care, or could do nothing about it. There is still a lot of fear of litigation.

    I have been in touch with my own psychiatrist regularly about Anonymous, and she's spread the word to her co-workers who she thinks would be interested. I am pretty comfortable talking about my therapy experiences within both Scientology and Psychiatry, but I don't think I have a good story on either account.

    I'd happily volunteer my skills as a skeptic if desired/required, but I don't know how I could help in that respect.

    I'd also like to weigh in and say that though I'd absolutely love to attack the attrocities the CoS claims to be mental health, we should not openly support psychiatry. I think the term "Legitimate Mental Health" is a good one. We can clarify that we mean any research conducted properly published in a peer reviewed journal, that has replicable findings.
  19. anonymal Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Personally, I think Fair Game would be a better target for May, especially considering Co$'s current Fair Game activities vs anons.

    If it simply must be psychout though, there are areas to focus on that don't make us sound like pro-drug, pro-psychiatry shills.

    1) Science vs pseudo-science. Co$ cites made up statistics and anecdotes, but consistently fails at the scientific method. Psychiatry might have a rocky history, but it has changed in response to experiment and observation: scientology remains the same fictional bullshit today as when hubbard dropped the steaming three-coiler. Expose the fraud of pseudo-scientific treatments.

    2) CCHR LEAF campaign, it's ties to Co$, and the leaked emails. Downstat Doyle.

    3) "Global Obliteration of Psychiatry" as hate speech.

    4) The OP says that CCHR uses accurate history of psychiatry. I haven't looked into this yet, but I suspect they lie about or exaggerate a lot of it. Expose the lies.
  20. Plups Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Thanks so much.
  21. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    CCHR takes far too long to explain to the public.

    Most people will think we've stopped caring about Scientology and now we're off rushing to do something about human rights, LOL WUT?

    I kinda think maybe it would be cool to launch a global real world petition to have the COS tax status looked into.

    Invite the public down to talk to us, to sign the petition, and perhaps we'll give away part treats to all the mothers out there as well.

    Anything but CCHR. Please.
  22. Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Strongly agree with the ppl suggesting that fair game would be a better theme for May. It would be good for momentum, as it's something all of us can relate to personally now that Anons are being fair-gamed. It also provides a much greater contrast with Reconnect mediawise
    We need to ensure we keep things fresh, both for us and the press, and IMO CCHR isn't the right issue for us to tackle right now.
  23. anonchoir Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Operation Game On, please.
  24. Anon32167 Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Yeah, I agree CCHR is not a good plan.

    Fair Game sounds good. Also, another thread mentioned something like "30 Days for 30 Rights" to highlight examples of Scientology's blatant violation of the UN's Universal Human Rights declaration, and yet claim to support it in no uncertain terms. We could name it "Operation Hypocrisy" (I know, I'm no good with names).
  25. AnonKiwi Member

  26. musketeerwang Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Plups is right - rather than rally behind psychiatry as such, we need to attack Scientology's abuse of the mentally ill with lack of conventional treatment and provably bogus alternative "treatment".

    Whatever one's opinion of psychiatry (and there were/are valid criticisms of it), Scientology and CCHR are NO kind of substitute. It's like replacing a tourniquet with a soggy elastoplast...
  27. Consensus Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I'm really glad to see people are thinking critically. I'm not married to any of these ideas, and I welcome critiques and criticisms. Allow me to give a little more explanation on my thought processes.

    I do have a bachelor's degree in psychology, which is not itself impressive, and it does not make me a 'psych' (as I'm not involved in the field of mental health). I do, however, know a little more about the history of psychiatry than your average anon. I had heard people tossing around the 'operation psychout' idea, and my immediate reaction was much like what many of you are expressing in this thread. I felt that we should 'stay on target,' and I felt that going after the CCHR would be too difficult, would require too much effort, and just wasn't going to be an effective strategy for taking out the CoS.

    As I pointed out in my OP, I still do not believe 'operation psychout' should be the major operation for may. I do not think it would make a good theme for a protest. But I also don't feel it's destined for failure either. None of the proposals I listed in my first post suggest making psychout the theme of our massive may protests, and I specifically suggest that anyone without specialized knowledge or experience in any of the given proposals should avoid involvement in this.

    My question for the devil's advocates - and I really do appreciate the input - is whether any of these projects will HURT the overall anonymous movement. Which are destined to backfire? Which will make anonymous look bad? Which will simply be an inefficient use of manpower? And which has the potential for the greatest win? Remember, I'm not suggesting we commit our resources to this - no, I *insist* that we 'STAY ON TARGET.' The theme for May, whatever we decide on, should definitely be anti-CoS.

    I know it would not hurt Anonymous if I wrote a letter to Daniel Dennett where I suggest that Anonymous could itself be regarded as a conscious organism, producing behavior that's interpretable from the intentional stance, capable of interpreting behavior of other organisms from the intentional stance, capable of passing the turing test, demonstrating remarkable intelligence, and demonstrably lacking any 'homunculus' (leader) or 'cartesian theater' of consciousness (while exhibiting conscious behavior). Would a thread proposing this idea get many views on enturbulation? I doubt it. Would I encourage hundreds of Anons to spend time pouring over Dennett's books and each writing their own independent philosophy paper on this topic and sending it to him? No. But I don't think it would hurt if I did. And I suspect there are others like me who relate some part of the Anonymous phenomenon with some perspective or theory in a book they read once. If we contact the authors making them aware of the remarkable properties of this movement, it will aid the movement.

    The most ambitious and demanding of these ideas is the 'call for submissions' journal/conference idea - but very few anons would be involved in it. Most of the other projects would involve 30-100 anons writing a half a dozen letters each. Are any of these ideas dangerous to pursue? If so, I certainly don't want to be involved in those that are.

    edit: re-reading it, my wording in the first post did seem to imply that the overall theme for may was going to be 'operation psychout.' I did mention that I think an alternative theme, a PRIMARY theme (that's anti-CoS) should be formulated. Given this concession - that 'operation psychout' wouldn't be the primary theme for may - are there further objections to pursuing the projects listed in the OP?
  28. Sponge Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    You may wish to contact Operation Clambake's resident psychiatrist, Ulf Brettstams (nickname UFO) and alert him to this subforum. He's obviously a busy chap so I wouldn't expect him to follow everything that goes on here but you never know. He drops by Clambake and ARS occasionally.
    His website is here, with email contact:
    http://ulf.ing-steen.se/~ulf/brettstams_debattsidor.htm

    Nice guy. He got even Narconon kicked out of town (Sweden).
    http://ulf.ing-steen.se/~ulf/narconondebateinenglish.htm
  29. 7790 Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I wouldn't be so quick to call electroshock therapy "brutal"

    http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/189
  30. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I agree there is a need to tread cautiously with the psych angle however there is a lot of benefit in outing the scientology front groups in general; I have seen a poster, "we're not the only ones who wear masks" with each of the major scilon front groups shown as anons (if you've seen it you will know what I am on about). Getting the knowledge out there that these are front groups is very important.

    DMs own video is very damning with respect to the campaign for the "world wide obliteration of psychiatry" it can be used to demonstrate the link between scientology and CCHR, along with other available documentation.

    Some points:

    While psychiatry has its faults and shady past this is no different to other medical professions, surgeons = body snatching, experiements on indigents and all that. Doctors, dentists and other health professionals have also been sued for abuse of privilage, this is not new to the world and the acts of individuals should not reflect on the organisation (much like anonymous in that respect). There have also been cases of manufactured abuse with these professions too and it is important to point out the devious nature of advertising for people to come forward and claim abuse.

    Psychiatry is evolving, it researches, changes and improves. Dianetics, which is what the scilons wish to replace psychiatry with also has its faults and is demonstrably not capable of coping with the more extreme conditions of psychological problems yet it doesn't change; it is still the written word of L Ron Hubbard.

    Yes, people may well be over medicating, but how much of that is psychiatry's fault, when people believe there is an answer to their woes they will seek it out and demand it. It's like the people who run to the doctor every time they get a cold for anti-biotics; the doctors know that half the time it is a waste but it is very hard to say no to a demanding patient. Of course, letting drug companies advertise doesn't help but stopping this falls far short of the world wide obliteration solution of CCHR and Scientology; and if that isn't a form of eugenics I am not sure what is, when you wish to wipe out an entire class.

    Scilons claim in cases (some as recent as last year) where people have died as a result of someone following their advice that they did not tell the person to follow their advice, that the person should have gone to a doctor, that they had a choice; well what choice would they have if CCHR and Scientology have their way and psychiatry is obliterated world wide?

    We can argue with them just don't get drawn in to the finer details because it really is a big picture arguement. If the scilons simply wished to offer an alternative to psychology and stopped their aggressive actions aimed at the world wide obliteration of psychiatry it wouldn't be an issue.
  31. Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I think that CCHR and Narconon are the two most risky targets to persue at this time. I believe this because a decent amount of JQ Public agrees with the stance of these organizations, and although *WE* know the truth, proving it in this instance is very, very difficult. While both EXTREMELY important targets, I think that if we rip open everything else, the courts may rip open these.. Just my thoughts.
  32. albinocat Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    ^^THIS. We are not ready to fight on the psychiatry ground.
  33. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    The consensus seems to be that Psychout is more suited to small counter-protests rather than for a complete them for May. I'd defo go for the idea of Fair Game, or launching a petition, over picking on this small arm of Scientology. Eg, in New Zealand, CCHR is probably only 3 or 4 people!
  34. CathyLong Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    I am willing to contribute. Psychiatry helped save me from suicide more than once, and also helped reform both my abusive step father and abusive ex-boyfriend. Therapy was the only thing that worked for them, and NO DRUGS REQUIRED (except for the bf because he was manic-depressive). Sometime just talking with someone who listens to you for once is actually the best thing psychiatrists can do. They actually prescribe drugs rarely, and only if the discussion fails to show any change :/ I'll talk to an uncle of mine who's a psych and see if he can help me formulate my thoughts better.

    I think this is a great idea, but I worry for the FZers. I want to help their cause, atleast as far as religious freedom goes.
  35. 7790 Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    Sure psychiatry was involved in eugenics and the holocaust, so were engineers, soldiers, scientists, civilians and Nazis. There's a difference between being involved in something and being entirely responsible for it, you draw that line at the Nazis not psychiatry.

    I think we should focus on the CoS hijacking of the holocaust to demonize psychiatry instead of trying to pick apart their semi credible arguments on psych drugs and things that have a negative public image like electro shock and lobotomy. We focus on their "all psychiatry is evil and must be destroyed" doctrine, while drawing attention to the pseudo-psychology that Dianetics is based on, their brainwashing techniques, and the apparent mental instability of certain celebrity figureheads ¬.¬

    The average joe should be suitably intrigued seeing "Scientology blames psychiatry for the holocaust" on a banner.
  36. Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    As would Jewish psychiatrists. :alien:
  37. Anonxmous Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    You need to be more careful about that leader thing - because when you say "We are going to do x" it's not clear whether by WE you mean Enturb, you and your friends, or what.

    If you are trying to say "Anonymous is going to present itself as an alternative to CCHR" then it sounds alot like you are trying to sound like the leader who is announcing the decision of the central command.

    I got annoyed - sorry - please watch your syntax, and be precise when you saw "we" and "will" etc.
  38. Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    While I do despise the CCHR, it's too hard to explain it to the general public. It's too focused, which is why I propose something else:

    Instead of just zeroing in on the CCHR, shift focus on all of the front groups of scientology. Under this umbrella, the CCHR will be tied to groups like Narconon and others, creating a bad image for all of them in the minds of the public as a scilon conspiracy. Effectively, the CCHR's image would be tarnished, if all but unrepairable.

    Now this is just a sketch, it still needs more input and development, but I believe that it would be a more effective protest point then defending psychology.
  39. Verunicastar Member

    Re: Operation Psychout Kickoff!!!

    CAN I JUST SAY THAT I LOVE LERMA?! YOU ROCK...SIR! please keep it up!

    *also, i take medication for depression, and came through severe bulimia with counseling and psych help...which LITERALLY saved my life. so this is personal for me, and i am not afraid of these moronic scientologists, especially now that i know all these fronts are to indoctrinate people who are in a vulnerable state. furthermore, i know wtf i am talking about, and someone has to call these jerks out on it already!!!

    let's go get them, anonymous. we have shown that we do our homework, i don't see how this will be any different. everyone- post links, lets get educated then meet them mano-a-mano.

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