Customize

Oklahoma Doctors need help with Ibogaine research. Narconon Arrowhead

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by patriot75, Aug 3, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Yes I think maybe we have enough info on a drug which is illegal in the USA and other countries. I think the goal is to stop narconon abuses, if someone is caught using the drug in a rehab they will go to jail, end of story. I don't believe our interest should be in pharmacology or homeopathic remedies.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Wow, that'd be some shit if Scientology were found to be using an illegal herb (not to mention, incorrectly) in their purported Narconon treatment centers.
  3. Anonymous Member

    I'm one of them, before the miracle combination of Ibogaine and Datura I was a complete fucking mess!
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Anonymous Member

    I'm 12 and what is this?

    For fuck's sake. I've done several of the major 'medicines' including Santa Daime. They're all fucking wonderful and my life has been enriched indescribably for that experience.

    But this is the wrong fucking forum for this shit. Go to the 'Nook' with that faggotry and talk about combining all the drugs you wish heedlessly without real wisdom. They've got entire threads on this. This thread involves a majorly lawyered-up out of state clam who might have witnessed a recent death at a scientology-run rehab known as Narconon: He also shops for exploitable student aid and promotes medicine which is illegal- and thus unregulated- in the US. We are gathering dox on the substance he touts. Dox, not 'what I did on my summer vacation, it was so cool'. Stay on target.
    • Winner Winner x 2
  5. Anonymous Member

    I'm confused, I thought this thread was about Ibogained.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Try reading the OP and the first page of the thread. After reading the material, if you're still confused about why the thread is here, you could PM the OP and get thread into perspective with the OP's help.
  7. sallysock Member

    tl/dr version of this thread? Late to the game, but curious.
  8. anon walker Moderator

    Trepanning works, and it helps people get the demons out of their heads.
  9. Anonymous Member

    What does ibogaine have to do with Narconon?

    Well, as Narconon aka the "bridge to the Bridge" comes tumblin' down, the people involved may be looking to re-tool their franchise to keep the income flowing.

    Apart from Narconon, a cohort of Scientology friendly doctors have been working to develop one of their quack remedies to the point where it can be licensed to re-sellers as a franchise. Organic Liaison is an example. Lupron clinics for autism is another, although they're all dead now that Dr. Geier's license was yanked in Maryland. Hyperbaric oxygen centers seem to be taking off more recently. The scammers like franchises, probably because of the multiple parallel income streams (licensing fees, professional services, supplement sales, etc.) and the opportunity to build a nice MLM pyramid.

    So ibogaine clinics may be a new way to Say No To Drugs, Yes To Life. I imagine them as WISE businesses paying licensing fees for admin tech, with various Scientology companies supplying all the consumables. This would position Scientology's detox program as something distinct from the CoS in a way that would stand up in court. Anyway, just a little speculation.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. anon walker Moderator

    Yeah, cuz a mystery African plant should be administered by Narconon, right? They're doing SUCH a great job with normally safe vitamins and stuff.

    It's all connected, bro.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. anon walker Moderator

    I wonder...would ibogaine be a controlled substance, or like lipo and botox procedures carried out in hotel rooms?
  12. Anonymous Member

    From what I remember about American Official taxonomy of 'drugs' both natural and synthetic, there is a Class System - Class 1, Class 2 etc. I think it goes as far as 4 or 5 but I can't remember the details.

    I speculate the Ibogaine would go in with the rest of the psychotropics and be highly (no pun intended) controlled & regulated.
  13. Anonymous Member

    No because the FDA require two controlled studies documenting safety and efficacy, and apparently no one wants to do any controlled studies for ibogaine. So the scammers will re-position this miracle cure as a dietary supplement.

    Atropine is a typical plant alkaloid --dries you out, makes you constipated, makes you sleepy, and can fuck with your perceptions and short term memory. These effects are useful when you are going through acute narcotic withdrawal. But really, not the best buzz out there --i.e., I'd rather do cough syrup.

    Imma guess ibogaine is similar to atropine, and that is why the drug companies are not falling for the hype.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Shamen have been using Trepanning for thousands of years. It is a miraculous natural remedy that when used in combination with Datura and Ibogained is even more effective in implementing Holistic Spiritual Enlightenment!
    • Funny Funny x 2
  15. BigBeard Member

    Wow, did this thread ever go off into left field from it's original purpose. Based on the OP it looks like almost everything after post #14 is basically an 'Ibo is good/bad' dumpster fodder arguement.

    BigBeard
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Anonymous Member

  17. Anonymous Member

    [
    It is considered to have no useful properties and is heavily scheduled. Forget freedom for decades if caught with it.

    I could wish that proper study is made of the drug, but administering it in hotel rooms to junkies sounds a fiasco more dangerous than tire-inflator butts (you want to read more about that shit, check out what they used to stuff into women's tits circa 1900 for some hearty laughs!)
  18. Anonymous Member

    once the government pulled Dr. Marsh's funding they made ibo illegal in the US...no more studies. however the evidence is overwhelming. just go online and look at the countless videos. Also just ask around. ibo is available in the underground. geesh if you want to know go do some of your own research. ibo is a miracle for many alcoholics and heroin addicts.
  19. Anonymous Member

    yes...datura is also a powerful medicine in the right hands. can really mess you up if you take it for "fun". science...thousands more people dying from cancer now that we have all that technology and science....
  20. Anonymous Member

    these are the same "geniuses" who classified marijuana as a dangerous drug...LOL...

    the underground clinics do not use hotel rooms...and follow medical protocol...as the medicine is not being not being used in a shamanic way..with non shamans...it is necessary to use ekg machine etc. There was a proper study done and when it proved not only to work, but to work miracles, the U.S. gov. shut it down and made ibo illegal....methadone is legal...lol go figure.
  21. Scientology and Narconon don't have anything to do with iboga or ibogaine treatments. Some addict named Beau makes money by referring people to treatment, but he doesn't seem to care what treatment people take, as long as he profits.

    Iboga/Ibogaine is one detox method, that I can say works greatly to reduce or remove opiate withdrawal symptoms and cravings for weeks to months, so an addict can use this time to learn new habits, and avoid much of the difficult mental and physical withdrawal. It also works for numerous other drugs, such as alcohol and methamphetamine, as well as even sugar.

    It activates (GDNF) glial cell derived neurotropic factor, which allows damaged dendrites from years of drug abuse, PTSD, and more, to be regrown. If you need scientific articles on it, google GDNF and ibogaine. There is plenty of published scientific research.

    Deborah Mash began clinical trials for ibogaine in the Florida Keys, before funding ran out. She was trying to patent her treatment method, which used ibogaine. 18-methoxycoronaridine was a synthetic derived from ibogaine that is supposed to be effective but may surpass the psychedelic effect. This could be good for some, but the trip is often a major part of the treatment, because it can show you where your issues lie, and how they started.

    Still, one needs to use ll the tools they can at their disposal when trying to beat an addiction, so while ibogaine is a miracle at interrupting addiction and removing some or all of the withdrawal, it is still just one tool available to addicts in countries where it is unscheduled or legally approved for treatment.

    I underwent ibogaine treatment for an addiction to street opiates, then methadone. With a single dose I kicked a 7 year habit, as well as quit smoking cigs, stopped eating junk food, sweets and soda, without even intending to.

    It can be dangerous when used by those with heart conditions since it prolongs the QT wave interval (able to be red by an EKG/ECG). The problems aren't always visible on an EKG, but they can help prevent deaths for some. People with serious mental disorders should probably not use iboga, and there are other tests that can be done to know if you should not take ibogaine.

    There are many treatment providers, many, if not most of them, are former addicts. This can lead to problems, as we all know there are unscrupulous people in any/all fields or practices, and being a former addict doesn't always give you the best history or education to become a medical practitioner. The shamanistic methods can be very successful, since many of the shaman have been trained by a long line of indigenous peoples with centuries of experience in it's use.

    One major reason ibogaine can not get funding is because it causes a psychedelic trip and has action on various parts of the brain/body (receptor sites), so a specific outcome for everyone can not always be expected, since all of our systems are different and respond differently in different situations.

    Another major reason iboga can not get funding, aside from possible deaths (which happen to occur in nearly every/any medical treatment), is that it causes no dependence. Methadone and suboxone, two of the most popular treatments for opiate addiction, are just replacement therapies. They remove withdrawal, but you must take them everyday, so you are just replacing one addiction for another.

    This can be good, because it allows for stability and acceptance in one's community. Addicts no longer need to search for there fix all day or for a way to get money for their meds, so they can get jobs, take care of themselves, etc. But when the time comes that one wants to be free of these addictions, iboga can be a major help by removing cravings and withdrawal for a lengthy period, so the addict can learn new healthier habits and ways of dealing with their problems.

    Sometimes people relapse and need to be treated again, it's a very common occurrence with any addiction, but that doesn't mean iboga/ibogaine is not effective. It is still up to the addict to take the necessary steps to stay clean, such as removing oneself from a high drug area, losing addict friends, and starting more productive activities, like getting a job, working out, eating healthier, etc.

    There are loads of studies on ibogaine, with published results, even some in PubMed, which IMO is not the be all, end all of medical science information. If you want a boatload of information and scientific reports and studies on ibogaine, I could post a few pages of links, but I am sure those who are really interested can use google, too.

    If big pharma could predict huge profits from treating addicts with ibogaine, they definitely would, as they kill way more people with experimental medications, than have died from ibogaine. There are way more deaths from over the counter medications than ibogaine, so the end of studies on ibogaine because of a few fatalities just doesn't make sense.

    If you think about it, an iboga treatment can cost anywhere from $3-400 (DIY) to $10-15,000 (top medical facilities). So even if an addict relapses 5 times before finally getting it to stick, that is only $75,000, and when you subtract the cost of the staff to monitor a person constantly for a minimum of 3 days, the cost to run a facility, to pay a doctor, etc., there is really very little profit to be made. Not to mention, once cured, that person will no longer need to pay for treatment. With methadone, or suboxone, it ensures that pharma companies can continue to collect payments for years to come. Also, the long acting replacement opioids they give, are much harder to kick than the shorter acting euphoric ones that people seek out for pleasure.

    Anyways, I just wanted to chime in a bit about ibogaine and this Beau dude who seems to have this forum thinking that Scientology has anything to do with ibogaine, because it doesn't. Iboga would definitely fall under the category of psychiatric drugs that Scientology so vehemently protests.

    Hope this helps to clear up a few things..

    Peace!
  22. Random guy Member

    When did this board overflow with ibogain fanatics?

    Take your woo and bugg off!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. When it's members started making incorrect statements about ibogaine and showing overall ignorance in general about it and it's various aspects. A person, who is involved with treatments with ibogaine and also with Narconon, has made some unscrupulous choices in "helping" addicts get treatment, and one of those people died at the Narconon Arrowhead Center, causing some controversy. Since this idiot Beau is also involved with ibogaine, he soiled it's name, even though ibogaine had nothing to do with Narconon or the death that occurred at one of it's facilities. Some of the people who read about this controversy elsewhere were linked here from other forums and feel the need to speak up about ibogaine, since they are activists and people who have been helped.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From this site's home page:

    About:

    Since its inception, WhyWeProtest has expanded its focus to serve as a virtual meeting place for increasingly diverse activist initiatives–an advocacy-neutral platform within which various grass-roots movements can organize protest initiatives and campaigns, interact, and exchange ideas and information about issues relevant to their interests.

    Vision:

    Our vision is based on the conviction that successful grass-roots campaigns are founded on access to information and a venue to publish it. Accordingly, we are creating a stable platform wherein grassroots movements and proponents of humanitarian causes can discuss legal methods of protest and information dissemination.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In case you aren't aware, there is a grassroots movement trying to get ibogaine/iboga legalized in the USA and throughout the world for treatment of addiction and possibly many more mental/physical issues. There is a relatively large number of people becoming involved with ibogaine treatments around the world, and there is a big issue with legality in some countries, as well as the supporters of the western medical approach versus the supporters of the ancient shamanistic approach (and those in between) that often quarrel, which causes a lot of trouble in getting organized. There is also the issue of no accountability for providers and others involved, since it is unregulated or illegal in most of the world. That is how an ibogaine discussion wound up on this forum.

    It would seem that this forum would allow for such discussions and ways for iboga activists to communicate and organize.

    So take your "woo" and stick it where the sun don't shine...
  24. anon walker Moderator

    It's no more "woo" than other plants exploited by pharmaceutical companies. Valerian, for one.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Ibogaine becoming Legal in the USA in the next 10 years highly unlikely if someone in the US wants to use it go to Mexico or Canada maybe. In the Netherlands it is already in the courts awaiting it's soon to be illegal status. The pharmaceutical companies found it to expensive to produce the synthetic form which has the least side affects/adverse patient reactions and is a more stable form. There-Go, in the US at least ibogaine is dead Period.

    Or tell me of just one US clinical trial otherwise take up a collection and start your own trial.

    There are already numerous clinically safe therapeutically beneficial drugs already on the market. No I am not talking about Methadone, Clonidine was manufactured in the 1950's era. In an in-house substance abuse setting depending on the patient's medical history Clonidine itself is a Very Effective medication. There are also already numerous drugs available to deal with anxiety/depression issues prevalent with drug withdrawal.

    I am not saying this drug will not someday be approved in the US and it is your right to discuss whatever you please. However this drug will Not receive FDA Fast-Track-Approval nor Priority-Review, maybe 10yrs from now it will be available maybe not.

    Per FDA
    For Fast Track Approval
    Any drug being developed to treat or prevent a disease with no current therapy obviously is directed at an unmet need. If there are existing therapies, a fast track drug must show some advantage over available treatment, such as:
    • Showing superior effectiveness
    • Avoiding serious side effects of an available treatment
    • Improving the diagnosis of a serious disease where early diagnosis results in an improved outcome
    • Decreasing a clinically significant toxicity of an accepted treatment
    A drug that receives Fast Track designation is eligible for some or all of the following:
    • More frequent meetings with FDA to discuss the drug’s development plan and ensure collection of appropriate data needed to support drug approval
    • More frequent written correspondence from FDA about such things as the design of the proposed clinical trials
    • Eligibility for Accelerated Approval, i.e., approval on an effect on a surrogate, or substitute endpoint reasonably likely to predict clinical benefit
    • Rolling Review, which means that a drug company can submit completed sections of its New Drug Application (NDA) for review by FDA, rather than waiting until every section of the application is completed before the entire application can be reviewed. NDA review usually does not begin until the drug company has submitted the entire application to the FDA, and
    • Dispute resolution if the drug company is not satisfied with an FDA decision not to grant Fast Track status.
    Priority Review

    • evidence of increased effectiveness in treatment, prevention, or diagnosis of disease;
    • elimination or substantial reduction of a treatment-limiting drug reaction;
    • documented enhancement of patient willingness or ability to take the drug according to the required schedule and dose; or
    • evidence of safety and effectiveness in a new subpopulation, such as children.
  26. Anonymous Member

    oh and lrn2spel
  27. grebe Member

    This is grassroots marketing, not evidence.

    If I were Scientology, I'd fight making ibogaine legal in the US and I'd encourage people to travel to Mexico for ibogaine treatment. Mexico isn't going to shut a drug rehab down unless people are being murdered.
  28. There has never been a recorded "overdose" death of ibogaine. There definitely is research that shows huge doses can damage purkinje cells, but it is way above a dose that anyone would recommend and the test was on apes, not humans. And thousands of years of indigenous use show that they give very large doses of the bark over a few days in the Bwiti initiation rituals without any harm. These Bwitists have generations of experience so that they can monitor an initiate very closely and know when to stop giving ibogaine and what to do for various reactions people can have.

    Most deaths attributed to ibogaine are from junkies who either used too soon after iboga or lied about what they were on before they took the iboga. Treating addicts in ANY form is gong to come along with some deaths anyways, because most addicts aren't the epitome of great health. Other issues are related to problems with the heart that can often be discovered if an EKG is done prior to treatment. Liver function tests should be done, as well, and any prior mental issues should be carefully considered before taking iboga. For instance, if one is prone to seizures, that should preclude them from treatment.

    ALL of this could be discovered and treatments could become much more safe and effective if there were any funding and/or if the ineffective prohibition of psychoactive drugs were repealed or revised. Getting a permit/license to study a schedule I drug in the USA is extremely difficult, if not impossible, especially when you are trying to prove it has benefits. Look at how long it has taken to even get states to allow marijuana as a medicine, when there has never been an overdose, ever, and there are repeated reports of numerous benefits by patients who use it! The politics behind getting a treatment/drug approved by the government comes down to who has the most money to pay off the ones needed to push your drug through to clinical trials.

    How does curing a drug addict continue to directly make a pharmaceutical company money? It doesn't, that's why there is no funding, not to mention, it's an extremely arduous and difficult chemical to produce totally synthetically. An iboga tree takes 7-10 years to build up alkaloids in the root bark, and only grows native to the rainforests of Gabon and Cameroon, Africa. There are other plants that do contain ibogaine or a compound that is a step away that grows much faster, but all of this can't be funded until ibogaine gets accepted as a legitimate treatment.

    If idiots like this Beau Griffis continue to do illegal underground treatments, and especially with unqualified providers that don't have standards to be held accountable for, it isn't going to do any good for ibogaine, which truly is an amazing plant with a myriad of anecdotal reports on it's numerous benefits. There are various claims made by people who have taken ibogaine and had positive effects for anything from HIV to post traumatic stress disorder, and anything in between.

    Having experience with and studying the plant, as well as being involved in the internet ibogaine community for almost a decade, has proven to me that it definitely has some amazing effects. I personally have taken it and dropped addictions, and I know of several people who also have long standing sobriety, thanks to it. IMHO, I think the people that have had ineffective treatments were either not treated properly, or the information they had beforehand and what they expected was incorrect.

    Many people go into ibogaine thinking it's a safe drug that totally removes withdrawal and gives a psychedelic trip. This is only partially true.. It definitely can remove all the withdrawal and cravings, but more often than not, it just reduces them greatly, while helping one recover much faster than any traditional detoxes can. The psychedelic trip can sow people their issues or take them back to instance in their childhood that have scarred them, often leading to unhealthy searches for escape (ie drugs). People who are expecting to take ibogaine and walk away successful afterward without making drastic changes to their lifestyle, as well as toughing out a week or two of low energy and/or mild post acute withdrawal symptoms, is just kidding themselves.

    Beating an addiction is very difficult, and it often takes many different types of treatment to be successful. Someone may take ibogaine and get a few weeks of relief from cravings and knock out most of the withdrawal, go back to their normal life without making a bunch of healthier choices, and easily fall back into old patterns. Or they can plan to move to an area where they have a support group in place, they have no contacts for drugs, attend 12 step meetings (which is a whole 'nother ball o' wax), find a job, start an exercise program, etc.. The latter is most likely to be the one that iboga will seem to be a miracle to, while the former will be the kind to say it doesn't work at all and gives no benefits.

    Personal responsibility is something that most addicts refuse to accept, and that is probably one of their biggest faults. Iboga can show you all of these things like an entertaining movie in your head for hours, which is why the psychedelic component to it's effects can be so important, however most western medicine will refuse to take any of the subjective experience into account, and that is why it focuses on breaking it down to get only the withdrawal and cravings to subside. Hence the creation of 18-methoxycoronaridine..

    The psychedelic component alone is why most big pharmaceutical companies won't touch it. It's too taboo with the western medical approach, and it's this major hang up that we westerners have that prevents us from looking at the spiritual side of healing. I think that is where a shamanistic approach can help greatly, especially when combined with western science. This would lead to the greatest understanding of healing modalities, and possibly allow the prevention of a number of mental issues, rather than waiting until they manifest as an issue for someone.

    For example, there are studies that show that the psychedelic jungle medicine Ayahuasca has numerous benefits when used regularly in a religious, healing, or ritualistic context. Those who participated in the study and took the ayahuasca over extended periods were shown to have a better sense of well being (higher serotonin levels in the brain), and had fewer instances of depression or the need for psychiatric treatment. Iboga is alike in the way it is used by the indigenous societies that use it.

    For that matter, various plants and fungi have been used for ages before western medicine came along, so they have some value and merit. You can look at Santo Daime/Uniao de Vegetal (ayahuasca), Bwiti (Iboga), Native American Church (Peyote), Rastafari (Cannabis/Marijuana), etc. to see that many of these medicines can be used as sacraments, and that with proper use can be beneficial and spiritual. Some of these medicines can be used to treat various ailments.

    There have been recent studies into the use of LSD for end of life anxieties, and psilocybin/psilocin ("magic" mushrooms) for the most serious migraines (cluster headaches). LSD and psilocybin both have been known to work for migraines, and one of the drugs prescribed specifically for cluster headaches is Ergotamine tartrate, which is the main precursor for the synthesis of LSD. MAPS.org has much more info on these scientific studies.

    And now back to the point of this thread... Beau Griffis is an addict/former addict, who is exploiting other addicts by using any/all other avenues for treatment that he can. He gets kickbacks for referrals to Narconon and probably from the ibogaine clinic in Mexico that treated him. He probably honestly thinks he is helping people, when in reality he doesn't really follow through with all the claims he makes. If anything, he needs to be outed for who he is, and he should stay the hell away from anyone having anything to do with iboga. If he thinks he is helping, he is just making it harder for legitimate providers and activists to do any good for it.

    From what I read about his practices on another forum, it seems he makes what he does a full time job, and he has relapsed or continues to prey on other addicts so he can continue his habit. I don't know personally if that is true, but from what others have posted about him who have some personal experience, it would seem to be the case. He apparently makes 10% of what Narconon charges for treatments, which we all know is a pretty penny, especially when it has anything to do with Scientology.

    I sure as hell hope the scientologists don't start advocating ibogaine, since it gets enough bad press by plenty of ignorant "underground" unqualified providers..
  29. Anonymous Member

    Your own dissertation above clearly shows this drug will not become available in the US for a very long time. If this beau fellow is doing something illegal I believe he will be found out. If someone in the US wishes this treatment Mexico is available otherwise to continue this thread is beating a dead horse.
  30. Not sure how much experience you have with serious opiate/opioid withdrawal, but clonodine doesn't remove withdrawal. It lowers your blood pressure which can reduce a bit of the anxiety, or goosebumps, but it doesn't do much for acute withdrawal. I have taken it in a couple detox centers and prescribed, once. Needless to say, it didn't help me quit. Most anti-anxiety medication is addictive, and so are many antidepressants. Besides, I don't want a batch of happy pills, or else I'd keep taking opiates! I want to feel free and at ease without drugs, which iboga has allowed me to do after having a lengthy, heavy habit. With one dose, I kicked a 7 year habit half on heroin and oxycodone, the other half on methadone, cigarettes, sweets, soda, and most processed food. It actually made things that are unhealthy look, taste, and feel unhealthy, which makes it easy to choose healthy.

    Also, every other drug they prescribe, or give out through a clinic, is just a replacement opioid. It doesn't end your addiction in one dose, or even several. It actually makes your addiction even worse, because they give you more and more until your withdrawal symptoms go away. Then you are just replacing a shorter acting opiate with a longer acting one (long half-life), which are much harder to quit because the withdrawal period is much longer than with the short acting opiates/opioids. They all have a tolerance issue, and will require more to achieve the same effects with time, too.

    Iboga offers a patient a way to remove the cravings and withdrawal with a single dose, and possibly a booster or two afterward if the withdrawal is still an issue after days or weeks. You don't have to take iboga every day or get sick, but you do with methadone and suboxone. Also, the slew of pharmaceuticals they give you in the drug cocktail they do for treatment at detox centers only treat symptoms, they don't treat the real issue. When you leave that detox, they don't give you any more drugs, so you end up leaving to deal with more post acute withdrawal, which is why so many relapse. Iboga actually can help balance one's brain chemistry, so that they can stop taking all drugs, rather than just trading one for another.. Again, for scientific information on how it does this, google GDNF and ibogaine.

    There is no doubt in my mind that iboga will not be legalized in the USA any time soon, but if we give up, then it never will. MAPS and other similar organizations are fighting to allow the science to be done on these various substances so that we can get the benefits from them without worrying about going to prison trying to feel happy and healthy. Take a look at medical marijuana. It went from twenty years for a joint, to several states allowing it for medical use now and others decriminalizing it. Hopefully in under ten years cannabis will be legalized federally for treatment of various issues, but until then we'll have to continue to keep fighting. I am not going to give up on the others, either.. Most of that has to be done in courtrooms, for now..

    Prohibition doesn't work, and there is no end to the war on drugs, so until we reform that system and start using harm reduction and education over penalization and imprisonment, we'll continue to have many unnecessary casualties. I'll save that rant for another time, though..
  31. Anonymous Member

    No I guess I don't have much experience dealing with substance abuse addicts for 43yrs. So you are the authority however ibogaine is illegal in the US for any legal substance abuse program. I am glad your clean.
  32. So is that first sentence supposed to be sarcastic? If so, I applaud your work in helping addicts. I do so on the internet, by sharing my experiences and offering advice, but I am not directly involved in any program or institution, other than the former counseling and treatment I received as an addict..

    In all my clinical detox attempts over my 7 year habit (quite a few attempts), the only one that was truly effective for any length of time was iboga/ibogaine. It showed me that I could do it and that it could be done, as well as gave me a sense of control over my life, while reducing all cravings and withdrawal. I am not claiming to be an authority on addiction, just sharing my own personal experience and research, as well as the stories of friends and others I have known and spoken with.

    I do have extensive experience with iboga, and the community involved with it, and was just trying to share a more accurate, detailed view of it. I am a proponent for iboga because it has worked for me and others I know personally, but I don't recruit for any particular institution, nor am I involved in providing treatments, because I can't leave the US right now, and I don't feel like being a martyr for the cause, nor do I feel qualified medically to handle any/all emergencies that could possibly arise.

    I flew to The Netherlands for treatment in 2004, and was treated by the lady who is now in trouble with the courts over there, because an (alcoholic) addict who she was trying to treat was getting abusive with her family and her, then refused to follow her advice. He left her home and she drove him to a hotel where he was left speaking and acting coherently. He apparently left the hotel, went to a bar, got drunk, then got hit by a truck walking down the street after he left. She and ibogaine are now being investigated and she is/(was?) being held in jail.

    I personally was treated by this lady for way less than most providers were charging at the time, and she took the very best care of me, gave me enough ibogaine to do the job, and waited on me hand and foot for days while I went through the experience and afterward. She is one of the first and most experienced providers of iboga for addiction treatment in the world, and now has to deal with this unfortunate incident because of something that was totally out of her control, while she was just trying to do her best to help. Unfortunately, hers is not a medical facility with a full staff on hand, nor is there any protocol or licensing involved where she has/had any right to restrain a patient against his/her will.

    Again, ibogaine is implicated in the incident, but IMO, probably had very little, if anything, to do with the actual cause of death. I am just hoping that we can get more studies on ibogaine that allow for it's use as a treatment for drug addicts and more. I, for that matter, am an advocate of repealing prohibition (of all drugs), which would be the main issue I am concerned with, since it has been the use of several of these medicines that have been of great assistance to me.

    I, too, am glad I am clean, thank you. It makes life much easier to deal with when you make healthy choices. :)
  33. Anonymous Member

    As I said before Ibogaine is a natural miracle medicine. The proof is that it is illegal in the US!


    ps my Ibogame check is late, I have promptly spammed every google alert on Ibogaine so I deserve to be paid promptly!
  34. When you get yours, let me know, cause they definitely have to owe me some back pay!!
  35. Anonymous Member

    You didn't get the promised raise either? You definitely deserve it, you're spiel gets more polished each time you tell it.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Don't let anyone get you down your clean now and I hope you received some useful therapy. As you did relapse a few times in the past maybe your affiliated with a drug free program to keep reinforcing the clean road you are now on, if not it's something to consider.

    I wish the best for you I truly do be proud of your accomplishment don't ever allow yourself to fall back into any bad habits and if you feel your falling back get immediate counseling. There are people that care and are more than willing to talk to you and help you work through any rough spots.

    This drug worked for you I understand your wanting to be an advocate for the use of this drug in the USA.

    However for the foreseeable future it is just not a reality possibly within the next ten years or so.

    While posting in this thread may seem to be furthering your goal I just don't think that is the case. Possibly get with a local rehabilitation facility and discuss your viewpoints and they can direct you to whom you might begin some type of education, email, letters or dialogue with local and state legislators. Or research facilities or possibly a university medical professor who might be interested in research, that actually might be the best idea.

    Having said that as I said before here on this site I think you are beating a dead horse.

    The most Important thing is that You Are Clean and you are going to stay that way.

    On another point have you ever considered volunteering at a substance abuse facility, of course if you brought up this drug, well they might not want you around anymore. However your experiences with substance abuse might possibly be helpful to other addicts to just give them support while not advocating this drug. Biting your tongue or holding back about the drug at a facility might be hard. But isn't helping to get someone else clean with approved methods more important. I think we could maybe agree the most important part is a caring compassionate ear to be able to talk to in times of need.

    That is all I have to say on the matter, take care.
  37. Random guy Member

    Look mate, your struggle to make ibogaine legal does not belong on a forum whose aim is to take down the CoS. There are other and better fora for that. If you feel WWP is the place, you could ask the mods to make you a forum, but keep it out of here.

    If this Beau character is promoting an illegal activity (in this case the use of ibogaine on US soil), we'll go after him for that. If it does not suit your fight for legalization of ibogaine, well, that's tough shit. The fact of the matter is that Beau is playing with peoples lives for a profit, and he need to be stopped. You coming here going all kombaya for one of his legal activities does not help.


    Ibogaine has not yet ran through the medical system. This means that all who use it are guinea pigs. There has been some deaths. You claim people die because they don't know how to use this stuff, and that is my point exactly. Using this on others is playing doctor, which is illegal. We do not promote illegal activity here

    I hate to go all Herro here, but ibogaine in itself is illegal. Until it is legal, drop using this forum as a place to promote its use!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. Ibogaine is only illegal in the USA, Sweden, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, and possibly a few more countries, but in the rest (most) of the world it isn't. I wasn't planning on continuing my discussion here, other than to inform those who were misrepresenting iboga.

    The only reason I came here originally was to read the thread about Beau, and after I did, I decided to make a few informed corrections. I also agree that Beau should be held accountable for his actions, but I wanted to inform some of the people who view this, as well as various other message boards where it gets mentioned, about it's efficacy in what it's purported to do by the responsible iboga community.

    For people looking for help, who come across a forum that is full of misinformation about it, it's highly likely that they might get a negative first impression from people who do not know what they are talking about. I am sure you can think of various things people repeat to inform others, when they don't have any research or facts to back them up. People often hear something on the internet or elsewhere and take it as truth, unfortunately. "I saw it on TV, or on the internet, it MUST be true!", says the average half-wit you'll run into on the internet, so I'd like to have a good deal of the truth about it, as well as an account of my personal experience with it to counter the uninformed negative press.

    If it serves to help one person find a successful treatment, then it was worth the time I spent posting. This thread happens to be about deaths at a rehab facility, and ibogaine was mentioned, so before everyone gets all bent out of shape about ibogaine and lumps it in with scientology, I wanted to state some important information about it, that can be checked and verified by anyone who has the desire to research it.

    As for medical trials, try a search for Deborah Mash and ibogaine. You can find the information she compiled from her human trials until it ran out of funding.

    So, again, don't worry about me using this forum to start a fight for iboga (although judging from the rules I have read, the info about this site, and it's vision, it's acceptable), as it's not my goal or intention, however, I was recently doing a bit more research into scientology and it's opponents (aside from my early learning about it that caused me to dismiss it right away), and I started hearing about Anonymous. I came across this site by chance, as I stated, from another forum on ibogaine, and figured why not post some possibly helpful info since it is clearly brought up as a possible reason for this new death. I agree with most of you about Scientology and it's scam, but by bashing ibogaine because they may have used it, is just illogical.

    And thank you for your encouragement Anonymous, and suggestions to help at rehab centers and what-not, but that is kind of what I do on the internet. I got clean back in 2004, and had a serious injury where I was put back on opioids in 09, and I used it once again to make quitting the prescription pain meds easier, when I was healed. It literally made the withdrawal negligible again, and I have never had the desire to use opiates for recreation since my first treatment. I have no desire to ever return to that way of life, so I haven't. I like to thank iboga for showing me I could, and making it a helluva lot easier physically and mentally.
  39. JohnnyRUClear Member

    If you're looking for confirmation of "mission accomplished"... I'd say you've made your case strongly enough to register with anyone reading this thread.

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins