Oakland Police Department put another veteran in the ICU - this time an Army Ranger

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Anonymous, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Anonymous Member
  2. Anonymous Member

    I'd like to know how this veteran was resisting arrest before making any assumptions.
  3. Anonymous Member

    I know many yanks tend to except and often condone heavy handed tactics by their police force. But even if the guy was resisting arrest, having a group of cops turn his spleen into paté seems to be going overboard a tad.
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  4. The Wrong Guy Member

    Countdown with Keith Olbermann - Occupy Oakland: Adam Gabbatt on second U.S. veteran injured by Oakland police

    "Countdown" guest host David Shuster and Adam Gabbatt, reporter and blogger with The Guardian, discuss the latest casualty from the clash on November 2nd between Occupy protesters and the Oakland police: U.S. veteran Kayvan Sabeghi, who, after walking away from the protest, suffered a lacerated spleen from a police beating. The veteran was held by police for 18 hours and is in intensive care and awaiting surgery for a ruptured spleen.

  5. 00anon00 Member

    There is no reason for this. It's SOP for police in some cities. It only comes to light when the person they beat the crap out of with their batons can get the notice of the press.
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  6. grebe Member

    I have some tinfoil on my head today about the feds or someone else provoking people to run unusual Google searches. Probably I'm wrong, but just thought I'd put that out there.

    Oh and any Homeland Security reading this, feel free to give me a call, especially if you're spying on stuff in my area. My life is pretty much an open book and I'm happy to help you catch bad guys.

    Also I'm not believing anything about somebody's spleen or their head injury without the name and credentials of the treating physician.

    We know that there's a right wing group in the US that wants the protesters to turn against the police, so the call for reform of the financial industry becomes something more boring like rioting. These people think that average Americans are sheep easily led with the right kind of story with the right kind of hook.
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  7. 00anon00 Member

    Which you won't get unless s/he has permission to speak to the press.
  8. grebe Member

    Yes, exactly. And if that permission isn't given we should assume something fishy is going on. That's the only way to shut down propaganda.

    Couple years ago a right wing group launched a sophisticated media blitz after a Washington Redskins cheerleader named Desiree Jennings had a strange neurological reaction to a flu shot. Reporters repeated that she was "diagnosed with" blah blah blah. But Ms. Jennings never allowed her doctor to speak. Obvious, obvious, horrible, horrible, evil event that should frighten us all about our mass media.
  9. xenubarb Member

    Permission from WHOM? He's a veteran. Nobody tells veterans what they can and cannot say. I wouldn't want to try it.
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  10. 00anon00 Member

    Permission from the patient or his family (if he's given his family permission to talk for him)
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  11. grebe Member

    No we're talking about the HIPPA rule. Personal medical information can't be shared unless the patient or his family allows it.

    No honest veteran who loves this country would refuse to share information about his injuries under these circumstances.
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  12. Durga Member

    Depending on their state signing releases like that may not really be the highest priority at the moment.
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  13. grebe Member

    Are you kidding? With the danger of mass rioting in reaction to the beating, you don't think the topic of letting the victim's doctor speak would come up?
  14. 00anon00 Member

    Total bullshit. Everyone is entitled to privacy and they don't have to "share". It might be inconvenient, but it's American law.
  15. Anonymous Member

    The day after the big raid in Oakland I spoke to some friends who had gone to bail out another friend of theirs that morning. She was a tiny college-aged suburban asian woman. She said they put her in a cell and removed the mattress saying "protesters don't get mattress". The authorities in Oakland need to be summarily fired and replaced - all of them.
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  16. grebe Member

    Let's imagine the veteran is someone like Desiree Jennings. Obviously this veteran isn't going to want his doctor interviewed.

    Now let's imagine the veteran is honest and is aware that his fellow Americans are deeply worried about him. This veteran will let his doctor speak, to confirm the reality of his injuries and to put to rest any idea that he might be a propaganda tool.
  17. 00anon00 Member

    You don't get the "right to privacy of health information" as put forth by HIPPA. It is inviolate.
    Lets say you were the veteran. Would you want your HIV status exposed? It has medical implications for trauma treatment so its relevant. Would you want a severe penile injury disclosed, or losing a testicle, or sex change surgery in your past, or birth control surgery or chronic illness that would impact employment, or a host of other illness that have social implications? Medical history is private for a reason.
    I hope we hear about his injuries but we have no right to expect it.
  18. grebe Member

    Seriously, take second hand info with a grain of salt.

    And even if the account is true, one prison guard acting like a jerk is not grounds for firing all of them.

    People like Charles Koch want protesters to fight police. No doubt they also want police to fight the protesters.

    I'd like to know if police departments are subject to rumors of the form, "I heard these protesters did ___ to a rookie cop."

    Protesters and police are all part of the 99%. We're all in this together.
  19. grebe Member

    This isn't about rights. It's about America.
  20. 00anon00 Member

    WTF? Civil rights are the best thing about America.
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  21. 00anon00 Member

    Srsly I get your point but its wrong. Leave it and go on to another argument.
  22. grebe Member

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  23. Durga Member

    No, I don't think a responsible doctor is going to bring that up with, say, a patient with serious brain damage and a skull fracture who may only be able to communicate through writing because their speech center is still recovering. I think that doctor would quite reasonably focus on the well being of their patient first and foremost.
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  24. Glenn Beck Member

    Except we're talking about spleen, not a brain injury. The doctors give-a-shit, its just another case for them, it's what they do everyday. It would be his family, friends, supporters of #ows that would push for the release on info if would help the movement (silence if it doesn't)

    Being a vet has nothing to do with releasing medical information, they can choose to or not. It's an individual choice.

    A "release of information" is a very specific process, it states exactly what information can be released, to whom and for what purpose. Releasing information about a spleen injury wont compromise HIV information if the peson doesn't want it revealed. HIPPA rules don't apply to family and friends, they can repeat any information they have.

    Busting a spleen with a baton jab is possible, the impact force would have to be along the lines of an automobile accident. Is it possible his spleen was already weakened or compromised? Maybe he had mononucleosis.

    Meanwhile, we'll just play the police brutality card because that's good for the movement.
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  25. grebe Member

    Habitual reactions to emotional stories is bad for us in the long run. It makes us easily led and manipulated. We'd be better off if more Americans were careful to double check stories with people who know things first hand.

    The police are not the target of most American's worry and anger. Rich scammers taking advantage are the target. And to hit them we're going to need the police on our side.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. grebe Member

    The same people who are consenting to treatment on the patient's behalf can consent to release information.
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  27. 00anon00 Member

    Suggesting he had mono based on partial medical information- no glenn this is the purpose of HIPPA. We hear he has spleen injury. This leads to hurtful speculation. This is why.
    Yes spleens can rupture with what sounds like mild trauma- a baton jab to the spleen would do it.
    It is very hard to limit release of stuff like HIV status once partial info is released. People are people, stuff slips out.
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  28. Glenn Beck Member


    Obviously you aren't familiar with HIPPA or confidentiality releases of medical information. "Slip-ups" start at $25k.

    Splenomegaly would be an immediate concern for rupture since a healthy spleen is normally behind the armor of the ribcage.
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  29. grebe Member

    A doctor can confirm that someone suffered a skull fracture or a ruptured spleen due to some violent event at a protest. The doctor doesn't have to go into details about the patient's history unless that info is relevant and the patient consents to share it.

    If the victim isn't going to allow his own doctor to confirm the facts, his supporters should not use his case to incite the public.

    I realize this rule of thumb isn't going to completely protect us from exaggerated news stories. There are doctors out there willing to spin things to suit there special friends (o hai Dr. Minkoff!). But with this rule the spin game will become much more inconvenient.
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  30. over9000OT Member

    I can confirm that there is a SGT Kayvan W. Sabeghi with an Individual Ready Reserve account listed at an address in California.

    I've got feelers out to some old buddies about him being a Ranger. Don't wig out about that, lots of people lie about being a Ranger but, if he's really a Ranger (I'm assuming that he is) he will get some attention from the special operations community that may be fairly positive for OWS.
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  31. xenubarb Member

    So where are the Navy SEALs?
  32. its to bad some ass holes fuck it up for him.fuck shit!
  33. Anonymous Member

  34. Orson Member

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  35. Anonymous Member

    From the Iran forum, the injured vet in question is Iranian:

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  36. iraniam Member

    Thanks for posting.

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