Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by anomnomnomous, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Slim chances. They are trained to think that those who scored the lowest of the low in the test are "scum of society" - a problem that will "fix itself" through suicide in most cases. Frankly, I wonder if they gave her the "You scored so low that we cannot help you" line - remember the tone-scale.

    This is a horrible story, and we need to show presence - as soon as possible. Cant let this one slip by as a freak accident.

    This particular case happened to get into the media spotlight because she was the daughter of a high ranking politician. Who knows how many other cases like this are out there with less exposure that never get published or linked to CoS?
  2. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    What's worse is that they portray themselves as "the authorities on the mind". A troubled individual with deep psychological issues can not be expected to tell the difference between real professionals and these frauds!

    This is seriously pissing me off...
  3. AnonKiwi Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Exlons, what would a -100 mean in the test? Would would the tester say to the subject then? What pressure? This needs to be got out there!

    They didn't just hand her the results and walk off, they put her under pressure, enough pressure to make her distressed enough to kill herself.

    And Norwegian anons, I'd be careful about protesting with her name/picture. Not sure what the sensitive thing to do here would be.. thoughts?
  4. avatar2008 Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Another demonstration of this abomination of an organisation.
    Another heartless predator of the wallets.

    Needs white roses at her funeral (Mourn not picket please),
    getting in touch with MP for the data force and;
    picketing to OUT the LIES that the Norway Org is spewing (as per tech I might add)

  5. Orderous Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Ok, I've tranlated the two articles from VG, one which MongoLloyd missed, but is important in the context.

    Committed suicide after test from Scientologists

    Top member of SV* Olav Gunnar Ballo, lost his daughter (20)

    Nice/Oslo (VG) About two weeks ago Kaja Bordevich Ballo (20) commited suicide – only a few hours after she had received crushing results on a personality test run by the Church of Scientology.

    Took Scientology-test; Kaja Bordevich Ballo (20) had gone through a personality test run by the Churhc of Scientology in Nice. On the very same day she took her own life. Photo: PRIVATE.

    At the moment the police in the southern French town of Nice – where Kaja was a student at the university in Nice in Sophia Antiplois – the controversial church’s involvement in the case.

    Kajas dad is the marked politician Olav Gunnar Ballo (SV), many years as an MP, vice president in Odelstinget** and unafraid spokesperson for health politics in his political party. Married to Ballo, and being Kajas step mother, is Heidi Sørensen (SV). Sørensen is a former leader of the Nature Preservation Society and MP, now government secretary in the Department of Environment Protection.
    The information VG brings to light today, is printed in dialouge and understanding with Ballo himself, and the rest of Kajas family.

    -The information about the Scientology test is known through the preists speech in the burial. This I can confirm. Men because of the closeness in time to the death, I do not wish to go into details, and comment other simplicities now, says Olav Gunnar Ballo to VG.

    Kaja died the 28th of March, and was buried in Grefsen church last Friday. A large group of friends followed her to the grave. Many were also persent at a memorial service at Stortinget*** the same afternoon.

    Personality Test

    According to information VG has been given, the connection to Scientology was done after the family found a filled personality test and Church of Scientology’s analysis of what they claim is her personality, in Kajas 17sq.m. large dorm after her death.

    READ ALSO: - She sought us out

    The test has a date and time attached: It was taken the same day as her death. The Curch of Scientology has locales only a few meters away the dormitory where Kaja lived.

    Henrik Möinichen (19), a uni friend of Kaja, tells VG that he walked with Kaja to the univeristy and lectures at 9am Friday the 28th of March.

    -As far as I could tell she was completely normal. She attended lecture as usual, talked and was happy, say Möinichen to VG.

    When the lecturing in French ended for foreigners at 11am, Henrik went to the airport in Nice to meet his dad. Henrik lives in the dorm room next to Kaja. The last thing he heard, was the she had gone to the room around 3-4 pm. The rest of the day he was outside of the dormitory with his dad.

    Based on what VG knows no other friends or acquaintances were in contact with the 20-year old between the time of the test, and the time when she was found dead.

    Vulnerable issues

    -The test was found in her home by the family. After she was done at university that day I have been told that she went to buy some clothes. This is when she supposedly got in contact with the Curch of Scientology, says Möinichen.

    Based on what VG has been told Kaja got an extremely bad result on the test.

    -I have a feeling that something must have happened suddenly, that they have hit a vulnerable issue. Personally I am of the opinion that Kaja would have been alive today if she didn’t have contact with the Scientologists. I had the impression that she was doing well in Nice. She often spoke about the future and her plans after university, says Möinichen.

    *SV, left wing Norwegian Political Party
    **Odelstinget, comparable to the House of Lords, but with elected representatives
    ***Stortinget, parliament

    -She sought us out

    Nice (VG) The Church of Scientology in Nice confirms that Kaja Bordevich Ballo (20) went to the church.

    A female staff member for the Church of Scientology in Nice says to VG that Ballo went to the church once before she died.

    -The way I have understood the situation she found a commercial for our personality tests on the street and came here afterwards to get the result. Beyond this she has nothing to do with the church, says the woman who does not wish to be named.

    READ ALSO: Committed Suicide after test from Scientologists

    She says to Vg that the meeting was more like a short talk than any form of counselling.

    The Church of Scientology is located in ordinary office locales in the centre of the popular beach town.

    The congregation has about 100 members and are hosts for about three weddings between members every year. Last summer the Daily Telegraph wrote that the congregation was supposed to hold the wedding for Australias richest man, James Packer, with celebrities like Tom Cruise and John Travolta amongst the guests.

    Ordered book

    In the windows the church society are advertising the free stress test. A group of boys comes in to take the test, but the woman asks the three to come back the next day.

    -When she came here, she talked to a colleague of mine. We recommended her a self help book. Because we only had it in French, we agreed to order it for her, and that she should come back and pick it up later. We still have not received the book, so she has not gotten to read it.

    The woman says that the meeting was short. She does not understand how it could have affected the young girl’s further choices.

    -The test she took is available online, but you have to show up personally to get the results. The results are neither positive nor negative; it is more of a test to give you insight into your own personality.

    According to the woman the police have not been in contact with the church as a part of their investigation of the case.
  6. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Funeral has already been held - that was where the news broke.

    Culturally, Norway is very sensitive about suicides. It is very rare that the news gets out that a death was a suicide. So, yes, be VERY careful about using her name and image.
  7. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    We absolutely have to get the message out there that the test is ALWAYS negative, and that it is in fact DESIGNED to have this kind of effect on people in order to draw them into Scientology.
  8. I Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    for these sorts of things we need a picture of the anon suit with a headless incredible hulk bursting out of it.

    that's exactly how I feel at the moment.
  9. martinpoulter Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    "Finding a Ruin" explained by Andrea Catt, former Scientology recruiter:

    "You talk to him about the things which are 'ruining' his life. You basically make the person feel really, really bad about the condition they are in. You take their problems and you magnify them. You look at how that is going to affect them in the future. You get the person into a state where they feel that their future is nothing unless they do something. Then you tell them that the only thing they can do is Scientology."

    The Big Story: Scientology - The S Files
    Starts at 5:40

    This is the technique that will have been used on Kaja.
  10. AntonAnon Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Of course she doesn't understand how a fucked up test result would affect this young woman's choices. And that's because SHE'S NOT QUALIFIED TO BE ASSESSING PEOPLE'S MENTAL HEALTH!

    The fact that the stupid test is online or that she had to come down to their "store" get her results does nothing to change the fact that the Co$'s deliberately depressing psycho-babble bullshit test is designed to make you feel bad about yourself. Hell, it's not even a test if the results have been pre-established before you read the first question.

    It's one thing to read about the historic precidents of this sort of thing, but for me it's something disgustingly horrifying to "see" this cult's horrible manipulations killing people as I'm trying to warn people around me that they're not just a "wacky religion."
  11. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Quoted for Truth
  12. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I think when Norwegian anons express their condolences they should respectfully ask if the family would be comfortable with them using her image and name in their anti-cult protest.
  13. Anonifus Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

  14. Giganon Member

    Re: Norway/France: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Makes me so fucking mad how many suicides Scientology has caused :S

    I have a Norweigen friend, she lives in Oslo, i'll point her in the direction of this, see if maybe she'll see why i protest
  15. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    This is not the first documented case of the personality test and Scientology failing catastrophically when faced with a person who needs real care.

    The Queen Street massacre was a murder-suicide that occurred on December 8, 1987 at the Australia Post offices in Melbourne, Australia. The attack resulted in 8 fatalities and 5 injuries.

    from Wikipedia

  16. Eff Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Many many thanks to those who have done a good job of giving us a translation to English so quickly.

    Reality check tiem though. We accuse Co$ of having a "guilty until proven guilty" mindset when it comes to their opponents. We're told that they believe that someone who is critical of Scientology must be wrong and therefore bad, and that finding proof of the person's guilt is just a matter of time. We must be careful not to adopt this same mindset!

    No matter how likely we think it is that the personality test caused her to commit suicide, there is no proof — like it or not, a few testimonials from ex-Scilons on how they gave personality tests does not constitute proof — and it would be a huge mistake for us to insist that there is. If next week we find out that there's evidence that she had actually made preparations for suicide the day before taking the test or something, then we can be accused of being reactionary and jumping to false conclusions to further our own agenda.

    This seems to be sufficiently big news. It is likely to have no small amount of momentum on its own. Trying to push it too hard too soon makes it look like we're out to crucify CoS even for imagined crimes. It is not illegal to talk to someone who then turns around and commits suicide. Even outright bullying doesn't make it into murder. Trying to pin this on the auditor while the ink on the newspaper hasn't even dried yet reeks of the "guilty until proven guilty" mindset that I spoke about, and we should be wary of it. This isn't something that will quickly and quietly go away if we let it take its course for a little while, so don't be reckless.
  17. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    EDIT: I'm an idiot
  18. Anon23517 Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Holy shit, I totally missed that connection - one of my RL friends is a survivor of that attack.
  19. anomnomnomous Member

  20. anomnomnomous Member

  21. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

  22. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Good point, we should not be too hasty in apportioning blame. However, if the details in the news reports are accurate, then there is already evidence of wrongdoing in this case. They have the timestamped personality test and results as evidence, and no-one is accusing Scientologists of murder in this case. Even if she had already been contemplating suicide, she went in to the Org and they lied to her - pretending they were qualified to help her. When Scientology claims it is the authority on the mind, it is claiming it provides mental health care. If the reports are true, the personality test result found in her room provides clear evidence that she was not provided appropriate care, in fact she was subjected to bullying. It is not murder, but they failed in their duty of care. As with the Queen Street massacre where Scientology personality testing was implicated, they have a duty of care to refer people to healthcare if they detect a problem. It is profoundly negligent to do nothing.
  23. N/A Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I'm a norwegian anon, and this is way too early. He says himself in the translated article that he doesn't even want to discuss the case because it's too close in time.

    He probably has tons of thoughts "maybe it was my fault" "what could we have done" "was she that kind of person" etc and mixing some "fighting cause" into it will only make it more confusing and disturbing. He wants to find out what he did wrong before he blames others. It's natural.

    I think we should stay away from him, if anything needs to be sent, it needs to be ONE email which simply states a condolance and where we are from.

    I'm sure he'll be ready to see this in an anti-scientology light in half a year maybe, but not now. So imo if we stay away/respectful, we might have a powerful ally in 6-12 months.
  24. _anonlita_ Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Yes, because that's exactly what someone with severe depression needs - a test, administered by someone with absolutely zero professional training, with a predetermined outcome telling her that her personality utterly fails and the only way it'll get better is to pay up and take the courses.
    This is exactly what pisses me off about Co$. That poor girl, my heart completely goes out to her family and friends. I hope this reaches a wider media, this could seriously be bad for Co$ despite how much they deny their involvement.

    Edit - N/A, I agree. It probably wouldn't be an idea to put any pressure on a grieving father regarding his daughter. Though that email should be sent, it just shouldn't be sent now.
  25. AntonAnon Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I agree with what you have to say with the exception of this:

    I'm pretty intimately familiar with the suicidal mind, and if it DOES turn out that there is evidence that she had made preparations the day before, or even the week before, to my way of thinking that's even more damning. People contemplating suicide often obsess about it, and plan out the details far in advance. The Scilons claim that she went to them for help, and that they didn't solicit her to come to them.

    If she had been planning her suicide, her trip to get help from them, where they most likely *insisted* that she was in bad need of help, would have been devestating. (Notice that I was careful to state "most likely" - You're right, we have no evidence that this was so.)

    Again, they shouldn't even be OFFERING to help people with these types of problems.

    Perhaps this tragedy was inevitable, it seems that she had a past history of mental illness of one type or another. But, I personally can't help but think that a visit to a Scientology "Personality Test" would have been the least helpful thing that she could have done.

    If they found she was depressed, they should have told her to seek medical assistance immediately.
  26. anomnomnomous Member

  27. Heyanonnyno Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    This is so very awful! While the Co$ isn't responsible for her fragile mental state, they *are* responsible for aggravating it with their hokey bullshit they claim is accurate and true. Just awful, it's a tragic loss.
  28. anomnomnomous Member

  29. MsCabbage Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Has anyone else noticed just HOW MANY people from co$ have chosen to jump to their death to end their life? It seems quite overwhelming..
  30. Ten Tigers Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Christ...... This fucking sucks. Something inside of me aches, right now. I hurt.
  31. VeniVidiVici Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I have had a Scilon tell me that Scientology is the only way back from the edge. They are exploiting people when they are vulnerable.

    this cult must be stopped.

    this is why.
  32. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    And now an official spokesperson from the Church has her say... "Tom Cruise can fly because he's OT11 1/2. You're not, stop trying to fly, you make us look bad. Seriously guys, believing you can fly? Fork over some more money first, then sure, we'll play along."

    bad joke ohshi-
  33. Plups Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I think you're exactly right. The father has spoken because they want the truth to be told. But, it would be completely inappropriate for us to intrude on the family's grief. If they want to find us, they can.

    We can provide information to their lawyer (who is named in one of the articles) or to the police in Nice or both.
  34. A.Non Hubbard Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    Yet if she had seen a psychiatrist at any point in her past, the CCHR drones would have been all over this like a fat kid on a Smartie.

    Disgustingly repugnant cult is disgustingly repugnant.
  35. Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    It's going to be interesting to see how Co$ deal with this. Always attack never defend. Big footbullets ahead.
  36. MongoLloyd Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    - Den eneste positive egenskapen jeg hadde var at jeg var god på kommunikasjon - Innenriks -

    Heading: "The only positive trait I had was that I was good at communication."
    Subheading: -I was told that the only positive trait I had was that I was good at communcation. Apart from that, things were bad. Rudi Myrvang tells

    Today Myrvang has a degree in psychology. He allowed himself to be tested by the scientologists on Karl Johans gade [main street in Oslo; org location] as a 19-year-old.

    He took the result seriously, and viewed it as frightening, but after some time to think, nevertheless declined the offer of a course that would improve him as a person.

    Kaja Bordevich Ballo (20), daughter to SV-politician Olav Gunnar Ballos, commited suicide only hours after she recived the discouraging result from the Church of Scientologies controversial personality test. [link to separate story]

    - Outdated and irrelevant
    Myrvang studied to be a psychologist and is today a specialist in work- and organisation psychology, and runs the business Cut-e, which administrates certified tests.

    Myrvang is also on the board of the Certification council for test usage.

    He claims the story of Kaja Bordevich Ballo shows how unserious and cynical the scientology movement behaves.

    - They use the same test as 20 years ago, and which is based on old clinical test-tools from psychiatry - completely outdated today. In the test there are questions which are completely irrelevant to what is being measured and some of them are of private nature. There is no documentation to show this test keeps its promises. It's probably best used to capture adherents, Myrvang told

    - Seductive
    The Association of psychologists is also strongly critical of the Church of Scientology's testing activities.

    - Such tests can seem seductive. The result, or the interpretation of the result, may have a grain of truth in it, but without it saying anything central about the subject's personality. The fact that you identify yourself in the interpretation of the test, can easily give an impression that the the test is much more serious than it actually is, Anders Skuterud from the Norwegian Association of Psychologists told

    They warn people against taking personality tests unless the test is administered in a normal context - as in applying for a job or a scientific study. Skuterud says the personality-testing of the Church of Scientology appears gravely unserious.

    - It seems as if the tests are part of the "business", you test and give the subject an evaluation, often these are prepared profiles, and then he or she is offered help to become a better person.

    - In relation to vulnerable and searching people, people who've begun to doubt themselves or who are in a personal crisis, these kinds of tests can only make life worse. And not least: It's hard on the wallet.

    - A false test.
    - This is a false test which is rigged in a way to sell courses to people in a low point or a difficult situation, Andreas Heldal-Lund said to

    He is one of the foremost critics of the scientology movement, and runs the anti-scientology website Operation Clambake.

    Dagbladet Magasinet wrote earlier this year a large piece on Andreas Heldal-Lunds battle against the scientologists, and the scientologists' battle against his work.

    Heldal-Lund says the tests are purely a recruitment channel for the movement.

    - The only reason they have these tests is to trick people. The tests are built up so that the person that takes them will invariably get the result that they have great problems. Then they explain that luckily, Hubbard (the founder of scientology, reporter's note) has found a fantastic technology that can help them. Heldal-Lund told
  37. N/A Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    I'll admit, when I read this in the newspaper, I'm empathizing with her and the family,
    but when I read this here in, I have a hard time not seeing this as a
    strength for the protests (which it is).

    I think we should be honest about the duality in this, that these tragic cases are
    indeed something that we will end up using (in a good way).

    I don't mean to be cynical, but it is the truth. The deaths infuriate and sadden us
    on one side, but it's undeniable that they make this movement stronger too. We owe it
    to the victims to be honest about this.
  38. anomnomnomous Member

  39. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    N/A, I understand what you are saying.

    But please, think about it one more time: our movement in itself is nothing. The victims are everything. Without them, we would not need to do this. Scientology would only be one of many strange groups.

    The protests are because this and other injustices happens. It strenghtens our resolve, and we can hope for a day when this is no longer needed.
  40. Randomness Member

    Re: Norway: MP's daughter commit suicide after $ci personality test

    inb4 "too soon"

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