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New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

Discussion in 'Media' started by SuperChipcat, Mar 6, 2010.

  1. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    The hits keep on coming! I posted in the AOL news thread that they already have the video up about the ex-scilons on MSN.
  2. mnql1 Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Translation of a March 9, 2009 article in Spanish on the website of InfoCatólica, a Catholic organization based in Spain.

    Novedades sobre la Cienciología: más acusaciones en los EE.UU.

  3. Lorelei Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Hopefully it will go viral among Spanish-speakers.
  4. auchraw Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    QFT
  5. PodPeople Member

  6. PodPeople Member

  7. Belladonna Member

  8. PodPeople Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    ack, you're right! San Jose in Santa Ana. But, Santa Clara County's only about 15 minutes away. so close. May San Jose Anons can poon to their country newspaper, I think Mercury?
  9. PodPeople Member

  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    /r/ help "recommend" so it might get on the readers recommendation page at least;

    Comment #524

    It does require you to have an account with them, however.

    I'm pissed that I messed up the URL, but hopefully anyone that click on it isn't too retarded to work out to just use the backspace twice and hit enter again *facepalm*
  11. Anonymous Member

  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    Another comment section heavily pwned by OSA.

    I miss Lilly!
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    I see what you mean!
  14. Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    If you want to take something from this article, let it be this:
    "Protection begins with critical thinking. You don't have to earn a doctorate in philosophy to recognize that anyone who claims to have all the answers is a fraud. Sincere or sham, they are frauds. If they offer you truth, happiness, or eternal life in return for your obedience, turn around and run for the hills. If you are already in such a religion, challenge the dogma!"

    I look at people getting sucked into cults and scams and being fooled by frauds, and even just holding mistaken beliefs or accepting pseudoscience, and the thing that, in my opinion, would have stopped every single person from making that mistken first step, is Critical Thinking.
    I do not know how to underline and highlight this very very important thing more. Critical thinking and intellectual honesty and skepticism are the best tools ANYONE can have today.

    You know this modern preocupation that many people talk about "There's so much information, how can you tell the difference from what's true and what is"?
    Well, critical thinking is what can help you through that shrubbery of information.

    Lol I know I sound like I'm marketing this thing like a product on tv, but I'm not. It's genuine excitement for it. And it's not something you study, it just happens, it grows on you, and it's invaluable.

    I used to have a lot of cooky beliefs (such as conspiracy theories) and I had many moments of complete despair and powerlessness.
    The thing that got me out of it was Skepticism. Skeptical communities and organizations, podcasts and writings.

    I look back and it was the best thing that has ever happened to me. To have found those people. And it's like Anonymous. People are united by this perspective on things, but then they can be completely different from each other on other things. But given taht they have the same kind of approach to things, most come to the same conclusion.

    I believe that most people here would love to look into what skepticism is and would love podcasts like "The Skeptic's Guide to the Universe".
    If you think Anonymous is doing great things, visit the James Randi Educational Foundation forums and you'll see that that community is Anonymous on steroids. They go from scams to fraudulent psychics to homeopathy to hundreds of other beleifs people have that simply do not demonstrate what they claim.
    It's intellectually stimulating stuff.
    I could even say that Anonymous is an arm of a growing skeptical movement, whose seperate parts aren't aware they're part of the same drive for rationality and evidence-based reasoning.
  15. Anon99 Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    "Scientology. The name is a travesty of science. The reality is a burlesque of religion."
  16. WogoMatic Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    THIS

    but I am not sure even skepticism will completely protect one especially if you catch them during a time of emotional turmoil in their life.
  17. gizmogirl Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    " Basically, Scientology hits all three categories that make religions wary of the press: it's tiny, it's young, and it's secretive. This recent surge in stories may simply reflect that the group has now been around long enough to have defectors, and to become more media-savvy."
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    I wish! But, unfortunately, Santa Ana is a 373 mile drive from San Jose.
  19. gizmogirl Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Scientologists get the non-Hollywood treatment - Belief Beat

    "Basically, Scientology hits all three categories that make religions wary of the press: it's tiny, it's young, and it's secretive. This recent surge in stories may simply reflect that the group has now been around long enough to have defectors, and to become more media-savvy."

    Tiny cult, tiny cult....yeah, with your million's and million's of followers. The media have seen through the PR BS.
  20. Consensus Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    Wait, are you suggesting that Skepticism, as valuable as it is, doesn't "promise truth, happiness, or eternal life in return for your obedience?"

    Huh. Fancy that.

    (Skepticism is the greatest thing that ever happened to me. It works and it helps people.)
  21. WogoMatic Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    lol
  22. Belladonna Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    I know what you mean, and I think a lot of our separate little parts are finding each other slowly but surely.

    And there are plenty of Anons here who are believers but I think the mutual respect is pretty darn good all things considered.


    Edit - for clarity, I'm talking about getting along with non-Scientology believers here on WWP.
  23. WogoMatic Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    The thing is, I am all for using critical thinking, being skeptical and reasonable but IMO many seem to think this is a cure all for preventing one from getting involved in an abusive cult and I seriously doubt that is the case - I guess you might say I am skeptical of those skeptics who think that.
  24. Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Why do you say the husband is a sad example of this? Did you read the whole article?
  25. Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Well being a skeptic basically is being open to evidence but being intellectually honest.
    Of course it isn't a cure all. It is no panacea. It claims the opposite of religious thought. There's always a chance that you're wrong and for change. And I understand that the human mind isn't the most adept or fan of this state of mind.
    But again, it's no panacea. Because at the end of the day you're dealing with human beings. And human beings are by no means machines that seek truth at a costant rate. I actually think that to be like that would take a bit of spice out of life.
    But it's by no means a bad thing to have operating in yur mind in times where you're confronting things you don't know well enough.
    I could type and type about this for hours. I won't because it would be going out of topic. :p
  26. AnonymousNow Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    I would love to fall into the trap of thinking I was above falling into a cult. But fate, and the cults themselves, can cook up all sorts of CIRCUMSTANCES that might have resulted in me joining a cult [when I was younger]. Especially if the circumstances involved hot chicks.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    After all that fapping, they need to taek their time.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    It's more fun when you take your time (glad you took the time to join the fapping)
  29. PodPeople Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    I slept through geography class.
  30. AnonymousNow Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    "The Spanish media have said nothing. They remain mute. However, in the U.S. and in other places, the media have published news concerning harsh accusations against the Church of Scientology. According to some observers, the traditional walls of silence surrounding this sect are falling down."

    Note the emphasis: "They remain mute."

    They go on to first cite the NYTimes article of March 6 as proof of this change in the wall of silence falling down. So we are seeing in real time the impact the Times article is having, oddly, in express fashion in this Spanish article. Times is the paper of record, easily one of the most respected in the world, certainly irrespective of conflicts with personal viewpoints. This could be big.
  31. potrezebie Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    I would simply hope the believer is skeptical enough to take anyone asking to be paid large sums of money for 'enlightenment' with the mountain of salt that would make such a paltry morsel palatable.

    Anyone charging for enlightenment probably hasn't got it yet either.

    That goes double for anyone selling e-meter-based enlightenment.

    I ain't even gonna get into buying stuff from fish-lipped science fiction hacks. If you do, count your fingers after...
  32. theLastAnon Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Nice. Interesting perspective that had not even occurred to me amidst the abuse I've been giving my body since the NYT story was posted Sat night (is there a fapaholics anonymous for anons?).

    In addition to saying other journalists and news organizations, "it's okay to report on this," the bigger question the Times may present to at least some of them is "why the fuck aren't you reporting on this too?"

    Very nice indeed.
  33. PodPeople Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    "Originally Posted by HourglassMemory
    I could even say that Anonymous is an arm of a growing skeptical movement, whose seperate parts aren't aware they're part of the same drive for rationality and evidence-based reasoning."

    Wow, that's deep and very astute. My humble 2 cents: Scientology is but a microcosm of a world wide old guard of greed reliant and responsible for misinformation that smacks down attempts of rationale and reasoning.

    It worked and I think the only reason was the onslaught of rapid fire advances in technology that leveled the playing field but also turned it upside down and inside out.

    Now, some have landed on their feet, some on their butts, but one thing seems to be universal: It shook us to our core, scared the hell out of us. But it woke us all up not just back to rational thinking, but also to true values, like family and friends and humanity, which are the motivations to getting back to rationale in the first place. And scientology cannot thrive in this new environment.
  34. Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    And Scientology has a lot of things in common with other scam-like, fraudulent, pseudosciences, in regards to thought patterns and logical fallacies that are commited.

    Anyone who's aware of logical fallacies suddenly is almost blinded and thrown to the ground by the amount of amateurish thoguht process that so many people have in their heads. And the majority will be found in thought structures like those found in scientology and other forms of beliefs.

    I can listen to Tommy Davis and literally make a list of fallacies. Good argumentation is not on his side at all.
    It's not on Scientology's side in the first place.
    You can listen to Hubbard and you have to stop at every one/two sentences (sometimes words that come out of nowhere) because there's something wrong with his argumentation. There's appeals to emotion and appeal to authority. Man, I could go ON.
    Scientology has the same fallacies that creationism and conspiracy theories and homeopathy and cryptozoology and ufology and new age beliefs and alternative medicine have. It might not please some people but religions also have this.

    If anything is prevalent in Anonymous, from what I can perceive, is a tendency to be skeptical like that. Perceptive. To look for information and gather it and analize and point out inconsistencies and so on. That's skepticism. The community that I come from, the skeptical community, is like that.
    What this 'Anonymous' community does is dress it in a lot of internet lingo and Lulz and whatnot, but it's there.
    And it makes me really happy and it makes me feel at home. Also most people here are young and so am I, so it also makes me feel happy and hopeful for my own age group.
    It also makes me wonder what other areas of the world of beliefs could be tackled by this vaporous group of individuals.
  35. JustSomeWoman Member

    Re: Huffington Post: Alleged Abuses in Scientology Are Far From Unique

    Most of the major religions, the least parts being Islam and Scientology, offer their adherents a non-interventional path to self-help. It's not the religion, but the dogmas that prayer, and whatever other practices in which one can freely open up one's mind, on one's own volition, to express one's thanks, worries, sins, and questions, to a higher power, in a milieu that asks no questions and demands very little in return, that are of benefit to the individual adherent.

    In my view, religion is not a fraud on a personal level if it does not involve draining every last cent from its adherents, suggesting that non-adherents should be executed and their wives and daughters taken for personal pleasure, etc. No major religion except, AFIK, Islam and Scientology take part in these in these two conditions. Even the Evangelical and Catholic Christians do not preach the death of homosexuals, etc., even though both need a good whack to the sides of their respective heads on the issues they do espouse.

    When addressed critically, religion fails every rational test. Yet the human mind, even the minds of those who believe they think critically, want "something" to guide them. The "critical thinkers" have advanced Marx and Engels, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, and Obama - and even the comfort of their current public policy adherents, etc.- yet even these 'critically-thinking' gurus were demanding a religious attitude of their associates, usually on pain of a bullet to the brain.

    Recall the opening scene of '2001, A Space Odyssey' when the sun was rising and the moon was eclipsing, and the apes were killing their enemies with the jawbones of a zebra. This is where the idea of God started. Sol was the first god, and Luna, the secondary.

    That proto-humans wanted to believe in a higher power is ingrained today in our genes. No amount of 'critical thinking' is going to reduce the human want for intervention by a higher power to help with the illogical conundrums of the human mind until that set of 'religion' genes is bread out in another million years.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    PLEASE Stop this Madness. It' s distracting and thouroughly irritating. A new thread in Chit Chat- feel free. Label it something smart:)

    Epic NYT comments/fallout - please continue.

    I love what is happening- the entire week is going win.

    YAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  37. OTBT Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    OT VIII baaaaaaawwwing

    Letter - In Support of Scientology - NYTimes.com

    Susan Rowe is an old timer OT VIII

    Susan Rowe - Scientology Service Completions | Truth About Scientology Statistics Project

    Susan Rowe - LinkedIn

    Oct 2008-- Updated OT 8 list - Ex Scientologist Message Board
  38. PodPeople Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    when you're right, you're right. Not reflection time, it's Celebration time!
    So much win, and the NY Times piece shines in it's awesomeness.
  39. grebe Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    I wouldn't put it quite like that. Rather, humans have hyperactive agency detectors. God is a side effect in some people.

    WRT Spain: Perhaps they are mute 'cuz they're thinking OH SHI-

    Spain finally granted CoS tax exemption status Dec '09 IIRC.
  40. Belladonna Member

    Re: New York Times - Sunday Sunday Sunday

    Sistema Limbico
    Un blog de las neurociencias
    Santiago de los Caballeros, Provincia de Santiago, República Dominicana

    In English

    The Church of Scientology under fire | Sistema Limbico

    picture48q.png


    BTW, some insane person thinks Larocca is Orac (ScienceBlogs).
    The two personalities of Orac bring us words of encouragement and support NEGOTIATION IS OVER!

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