narconon uk closes down

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by likey, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. likey Member

    ok this may sound silly but what do you mean by illegally what would fall into that bracket . for an example students there are classed as vunrable people like in real rehabs .so would the fact that they have students looking after fellow students during there detox with no medical persons supervision be classed as illegal ?
  2. likey Member

    what would fall into the bracket of illegally operating ? i know that people in re-hab are classed as vunrable people and narconon uk used other students without medical or proffesional supervision to look after other students in the detox stage which is the dangerous part of the program .
  3. likey Member

    a lady friend of mine told me that they also brought in an emeter to the centre which is a religious artefact and so is not allowed in a narconon because they dont have anything to do with scientology so they say .
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  4. Anonymous Member

    ^might even be legally actionable with an image or video of said event
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  5. likey Member

    they have always wanted to relocate nearer to st hill and east grinstead this is something that has been going on for years the nearest they came to moving there was a farm house about 20 mins outside east grinstead near where the sea org have there living quarters
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  6. Sekee Member

    The story is also in the London Evening Standard.

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  7. Anonymous Member

    I think the safest course is to send them information about anything that seemed dodgy to you.

    If some of it was actually allowed, then no harm done. If you're not sure then you can always mention it briefly, explain that you don't know whether it falls under their remit, and explain that you can provide more details if they'd like them.

    Things to concentrate on, maybe:

    - Made-up 'rehab' practices which don't have any real evidence to back them up. E.g. saunas, niacin, auditing, all the quack-medicine 'technology'.

    - Practices which could be medically harmful to clients, e.g. high-dose niacin, lack of access to real medical care (by which I mean actual doctors and nurses). Specific examples of actual medical harm done to clients, such as the case you mention.

    - Practises which exploit the vulnerability of clients, e.g. recruiting clients to join Scientology or to make donations, staff having sexual relationships with clients, staff selling drugs to clients.

    - False claims, e.g. falsified success rates, clients being forced to write bogus 'success stories'

    - Evidence that Narconon is controlled by Scientology.
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  8. RightOn Member

    ^^^ cutting off communication with family?
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  9. anon walker Moderator

    So this guy is unaware of the medical hazards too much sauna and toxic doses of vitamins? WHY IS HE IN THIS BUSINESS IF HE IS SO VERY IGNORANT OF HIS OWN PROGRAM? (or "programme")
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  10. anon walker Moderator

    Let us not forget the 'exploitation of disabled persons' that David Love used successfully. Narconons often loan out their inmates to do labor in the community. This may include painting, brush clearing and other hard labor. This is NOT allowed. Putting addicts to work in the community doing hard labor is exploitation. No matter what they claim about it 'building character' or whatever, it's just a ploy to foster good relationships with the local communities. And it is illegal.
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  11. Anonymous Member

    - Cramped living conditions are not allowed.
    • - How were complaints handled? Have you seen instances were complaints were ignored? Was there an ombudsman type person you could turn to?
    • - Rehabs need to have dossiers, with all relevant medical information of each patient, and they have to secure this to ensure confidentiality. Did they build up such files? If so, were they well secured?
    For example, you mentioned cramped living conditions in your short PM to me about the Dutch facility. This is actionable in Nl, so I passed this on to the Inspection.

    If you can tell us more about each of the points mentionted in post #207, #210 and this post (with #207 being the most important one), this would be invaluable for us. Please specify if something concerned Zutphen or Hastings, or both :)
    • Like Like x 1
  12. booski Member

    Ok well as much as they would like to say they are in relocation blah blah blah, the cold harsh irrefutable fact is that they do not have an operation center in the UK.

    A quick glance at them on the charity commission reveals the following.

    Curious is it not no filing at all for income or expenditure for 2009, where is it?
    they seem to be consistent late in filing their paperwork.

    Its activities are listed as reformation and rehabilitation of drug addicts, how this is possible with no center in uk is beyond me!

    I think i'll have a word with the commission also.

    Finally I have had no email as of yet from Mr Fish, I have a feeling that the subject of death and scientific basis of treatment has scared him off.

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  13. RightOn Member

    because if he realized it was harmful, he wouln't be with Narconon
    OR he doesn't care
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  14. Anonymous Member

  15. DeathHamster Member

    It would be nice to have a break down their expenditures and see how much of that is actually transfers uplines and overseas. (Like the orgs, Narconon franchises are mainly non-profit because they ship the profit to the mother church.)
  16. Anonymous Member

    People are informed about scientology and what it's about - nobody wants it near them.
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  17. Anonymous Member

    What I ought to understand is how Narconon does this, yet simultaneously claims that it is not affiliated with the cult, is non-religious, etc.
    Since when does a bona fide chuch have secular offshoots? Wouldn't that defeat the program of the propagation of the faith?
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  18. Anonymous Member

    Wonder which narconon scientologist befriended who to get access to these kids.

    Anyone on Mumsnet who can cross post this with a warning to parents?
  19. DeathHamster Member

    They hide it a bit by sending it up to ABLE and otherwise muddling the money-flow. The royalties for those Scientology Narconon course books likely goes to Author Services Inc (Church of Spiritual Technology) or the L. Ron Hubbard Library (Church of Spiritual Technology).
  20. booski Member

    Ok I did not think it would happen but Mr Fish has responded AGAIN!..

    this is the motherload...

    Dear Bartholemew,

    All material is written by L Ron Hubbard. It is theory which is used by Scientologists and all of the material can also be found in a church Scientology, but in the original, more complex form.
    Narconon was founded by a Mexican drug lord named William Benitez, who was reading Hubbard's books in prison and found that the material had helped him. He wrote to Hubbard to ask permission to use the material by editing them in to a simpler and more accessible form, and delivering them to drug addicts as a program to help their rehabilitation. You can read about this at (WARNING SCIENTOLOGY LINK AHEAD) This is Narconon International's website.

    I would add at this point that the reason why there is so much bad press about Narconon on the internet, is because they are seen to be affiliated with the church of Scientology more closely than they actually are.
    Scientology has its attackers for a variety of reasons, and these attackers are determined to bring down 'the church'. Narconon is related because their course material uses Scientology theory, and also because in order to use that material they must pay license fees to ABLE (The Association of Better Living and Education), who probably pay their dues up-lines also. The reality is that there is little, if any financial benefit to the church of Scientology from Narconon centres.

    The centre in Quebec was closed because of its political links to France. France takes a very strong Anti-Scientology stance. The attackers used a number of different tactics to get the centre closed down over a number of years. I cannot really comment on this because I do not know the full details. Trust me when I say that it was very criminal behaviour and criminally motivated, and that the tactics were underhand.

    In Quebec, there was either a new centre or there were plans to open a new centre to tackle drug and alcohol addiction. It is a centre paid for by companies within the pharmaceutical industry and one which will, in turn, finance the industry by providing treatments which use maintenance prescribing and so forth. Obviously it is in the interest of pharmaceutical industries, and due to the vested interests described, of this new centre, that maintenance prescribing is used.
    It means that every user going through these centres will begin a course of treatment which will involve their continued and perhaps permanent use of legal, prescribed alternatives to the street drugs to which they were already addicted.
    To have a Narconon centre in the vicinity preaching an entirely different philosophy; not only actually taking people out of this system altogether, but also educating them about the dangers of it, so that they protect themselves and others in the future, is a terrible inconvenience to these organisations. It is a threat to their business, and also to their long-term survival.

    I can give you a little more insight into the whole situation by illustrating to you the nature of the opposition. Scientology is a believer in the spirit being the most influential factor on a human being's health and wellbeing. They also have quite strong objections to a lot of mainstream medicine. This is because there is a tendency for doctors to treat a symptom, rather than to look for an underlying cause and treat that. So many of the drugs prescribed will handle symptoms that people complain of. Doctors are happy to prescribe in the mistaken belief that they are helping people get better. Pharmaceutical industries are happy for drugs to be prescribed as the industry is so incredibly lucrative.
    Scientology challenges this, offering alternatives to drug therapies which are very effective because they handle the cause, and not only does that negate the need for drugs to paper over the cracks on an immediate basis, but it also kills off the demand for drugs to handle recurring symptoms longer term. Of course, this is a huge threat to the pharmaceutical industry, in particular the psychiatric industry.
    This is one where the pharmaceutical industry is most guilty, as it is widely known and conceded that there are no physical characteristics to look for in the diagnosis of the vast majority of 'mental illnesses'.
    The Psychiatric industry is the biggest attacker of Scientology, and in turn Narconon.
    The motivation is money, because the pharmaceutical industry is one of the most lucrative in the world and Scientology has the power to turn the current think on its head.

    I will leave you to draw your own conclusions about why Narconon in Quebec was attacked, and actually why Narconon's all over the world are being attacked.
    We know that our attackers do offer financial incentives to people to get them to attack us when they might have a reason to - for example family members of people with grievances against Narconon.

    Like you, I have also asked the question about the scientific basis to Narconon's treatments, in particular the sauna. I know that the Narconon program as a whole is currently going through an accreditation process in the USA so that it is recognised as an evidence based program. This is being lead by Gary Smith, the ED of Narconon Arrowhead.
    When I asked the question, I was told that L Ron Hubbard did carry out research on the efficacy of the sauna program and it has been published. Of course this is not independent research, and so it is not valid to any critics of Narconon.
    The sauna detox is based on research where post-mortems demonstrate that traces of drugs continue to be lodged in fat cells in the body, even years after drugs had been used.
    As someone who has worked as the sauna-in-charge at Narconon Holland, and someone who has been through the program, I have absolutely no doubt that the program is effective and absolutely worthwhile. Countless times, I have seen evidence of drugs going into restimulation, and also of various ills such as long term insomnia clearing up once and for all, after a specific incident on the detox program.
    As for it being scientifically proven to do the things it says, in exactly the way that it claims, I do not know one way or the other.

    Continued next post...
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  21. booski Member

    I was not aware of the incidents in Arrowhead that you mentioned. As someone who is encouraging people to start the Narconon program, it is not news that would anyone would readily pass on to me.
    Obviously I cannot comment on these incidents because I have absolutely no idea on the details. However, it seems that the press and families miss the point that it is drugs and alcohol that kill people, not Narconon.
    It is easy to look for someone to blame when you are grieving the loss of a loved one, but actually the responsibility lies with the addict. If people manage to smuggle drugs into the centre, by swallowing, or by some other way, then Narconon cannot have total control over this. As a treatment environment, a certain amount of willingness must be demonstrated by the client to succeed, to stick to the rules, and to go with the course of treatment as agreed. The people in question for each investigation apparently failed to show this. Unfortunately, this trend is one which will only prevail and continue to grow as the widespread use of prescription drugs remains out of control.

    Finally, I want to clarify the point on the doctor. Narconon Hastings had an NHS doctor visit the clients as they arrived at the centre. Because we are a privately run charity, we had a private arrangement with the doctor which included all consultations for the program. This meant that we used the same doctor throughout the course of the program. The Doctor was obviously therefore appointed by Narconon, but could be anyone who is a qualified M.D and we would brief them on the Narconon program and the methods that we use so that they are aware of what the clients go through on the program. This is absolutely necessary as they are deciding if the clients are suitable for a, a drug free withdrawal, and b, the sauna program.
    If we were to allow doctors to be appointed by students themselves, we would run the risk of doctors giving the OK for students to start the Narconon program without any real background on what the Narconon program does. It would be too risky, and would create too much randomness to be an effective way of operating.
    Regarding your seizure medication, if you insisted on seeing a doctor of your choosing about this then that would be possible, but we would request your permission to send a member of staff in to the appointment with you to ensure the doctor was given ALL the data they needed before making their decision an any alternatives.

    The final four books are as follows:

    Ups and Downs in Life
    This discusses the reasons why people can sometimes do well in life, and other times seem to get stuck or do worse. It helps you to recognise the factors that influence you. You learn which people are good people to be around, and which people are not good to be around. You learn how to identify who you can trust, and you learn how to handle situations where you are negatively affected by certain people. It is not as simple as don't hang around with your old friends who used drugs with you. It is more subtle than that, and a technology which when applied, can result in you feeling happy and untroubled all of the time.

    This book covers subjects including ethics, justice, responsibility, and it teaches you about dynamics. Dynamics are the elements of life which all need to be attended to in order to survive. By breaking life down into categories in this way, it is found that people have a handle on life, because they have a good understanding on how this element interacts with others, and also have ideas on what kinds of activities can promote survival on each dynamic.
    There is also a mechanism where you write your overts and withholds (bad things which you have done, or things which you have failed to do which had bad results, or indeed bad things which you know about which should be out in the open). This is a similar mechanism to writing a personal inventory - step 4 of a 12 step program, or going to confession in church, but the emphasis here is that it is NOT just a way of relieving yourself of the burden of transgressions, it is a way of getting a perspective of your responsibility over life and the way it turns out. It gives you a very keen view of how your actions effect you in life and the consequences and ramifications are easily identified. It certainly encourages you to continue to do the right things in life because you see in a very objective way, how it is going to help you to stay clean

    Changing conditions in life
    This book is a very effective way of looking at the mechanism of life and way you move up and down through the conditions on heath dynamic.
    You might be very affluent, or you might be in danger, or just starting up in a new capacity. These would be different conditions. You would apply these condition to each dynamic.
    The book talks about the way in which things operate in this universe, in terms of these conditions, and it talk about the things which need to happen in order to bring about a change or improvement. It present a different formula which can be applied to different conditions which effectively allow you to strengthen your position in life, no matter where you currently are.
    It also talks about how people can have hang ups in certain areas. It teaches you how to apply the condition formulas to past events in order to free yourself of these hang ups and finally move forward in present day.
    Again, this book needs to be completed so that you can get a true idea of how effective it is. It is still something that you can continue to apply for the rest of your life.
    I know of business consultancy companies who are set up in Los Angeles and purely use this 'technology' to improve the condition of businesses. They make their money based on the level of improvement in the client's performance. They do very well! The theory of this book works.

    The Way to Happiness
    This is a presentation of some basic tenets of good living. You might say it is just a book containing a moral code, in that it contains rules to living which promote the life of yourself and others around you.
    This is a very simple text, but has been very effective in areas where it has been freely distributed to reduce crime and increase civility in society.

    From one human being to another, I recommend the Narconon program over any other because it worked for me and it can work for you too. There is little more I can say to you than that.
    I am not a scientologist, I was not recruited to be a scientologist, and I don't work for Narconon anymore. The only reason I am in contact with you is because I am working on a voluntary basis to handle the helplines etc.
    I believe it helps people, and that is the only thing that was important to me - getting help that worked!

    Nice to be in touch with you. I hope I have answered all your concerns.

    All the best


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  22. Anonymous Member

    It's a wall!
  23. DeathHamster Member

    LOL! No one in Quebec gives a damn about French politics!
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  24. Tourniquet Member

    Every letter is a stat.
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  25. booski Member

    I know like WTF!, I found what he said about the doctor very interesting also. I would like to find out who the assigned doctor was for the center. Likey would you know?
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  26. BigBeard Member

    Paging David Love: Does Canada follow the same libel laws as the UK??

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  27. mama2mudbugs Member

    The little aliens growing inside me are twitching.... :rolleyes:

    My first question..of ohhhhh so many: How in the HELL is a heroin addict in AZ prison a Mexican Drug Lord in 1966?~

    Mexican Drug Lords are not addicts.
  28. Sekee Member

    Wouldn’t booski have to namefag him/herself as recipient of the e-mail though?
  29. booski Member

    Oh they know who i am anyway! they like to call me a anti spoon bender. Namefag away :D
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  30. DeathHamster Member

    No. Common law countries have similar libel laws, but the application always has different twists.

    Canada has no "I'll sue you in England!" twists.
  31. Random guy Member

    Learn the art of multiple e-mail accounts, little grashopper. You can start by having a look into

    Good luck!
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  32. booski Member

    Yeah I'm obviously using a bogus email account for the purpose but they already name fagged me on here a while back before the Dublin conference. It only took them 17 years though. ;)
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  33. Random guy Member

    That last letter is a goldmine, Booski! Now we know all the internal spiels they use to stop the Narconon staff from finding out what's going on. Anyone raiding a Narconon should have a field day looking through it and make good slogans.

    My hat off to you, Booski!
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  34. Anonymous Member

    Luv the instead of religion-insert-theory, the one contradiction followed by another ad-nauseum.

    In his opinion we may as well shut down all the medical schools, nobody but pathological liars know what to do.

    However they may not be able to articulate how to do it and while were at it I guess we need to shut down all the pharmaceutical companies as well.

    Only the dead guy knows what to do luckily he left a bunch of instructions for everybody.

    I've spoken to a few true mentally ill patients they are kind of scary at first. I get the same feeling almost every time I see what these people write. They are mentally deranged sociopaths who would qualify for a minimum 72hr physc eval, I think that's why they stay away from real MD's.
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  35. Intelligence Member

    WOW!!!! I am going to have a FIELD-DAY with this:)
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  36. Internetzin Member

    A-Salt and battery?
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  37. Anonymous Member

    Keep in mind that in the UK there is access to drying-out units on the NHS. It would be a clever move to let the professionals do the real work, then charge to push people into Scientology.
  38. JohnnyRUClear Member


    ...for Scilons


    James Fish

    (nope, nothing fishy about this place!)
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  39. pedrofcuk Member

    " I cannot really comment on this because I do not know the full details. Trust me ..."

    ^Legendary! If this was a line in a bad movie it would win awards.
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  40. booski Member

    Am formulating a response to Mr Fish. Will let you know when he replies again.
    • Like Like x 2

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