Narconon-Scientology Physician

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by Intelligence, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. jensting Member

    Today, the clams think it's a PR problem. Here's to a future where they realise that there is more to it.

    Best Regards

    • Like Like x 2
  2. adhocrat Member

    and David.

    I have to correct you here, David. It's going to get worse and worser, but never better, not for NarCONon.
    • Like Like x 3
  3. Ironhead Member

    Do what ever you can to make sure you never go before the human rights tribunal. 100% conviction rate! Ironically all against people of the eexact same gender and skin colour...
  4. grebe Member

    So the tl;dr version: "We're not doctors and it's not really our place to comment on the niacin thing. But if doses above 30 mg per day can cause unpleasant side effects and frequent doses above that can toast your liver, why is Narconon handing out GRAMS of niacin to patients daily? WTF why is the medical profession allowing this to go on?"

    This makes me happy.

    WITP lurkers take note: this is doin it rite. Lern2DavidLove.

    Admittedly collecting documents to back up your claims and writing letters to the appropriate people is tedious and time consuming and not at all fun like Chanology used to be in the beginning. Sorry about that.
    • Like Like x 8
  5. xenubarb Member

    Right at the beginning of this document, they state that Narconon makes sure every subject has a medical exam and that they will go to lengths to assist.
    I don't think so. Would you challenge that statement? It sounds like they just asked Narconon and then regurgitated their claims as factual.
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Anonymous Member

    From the first scanned doc in this thread:
    That first point about "associating himself" is huge.

    I wish this review were happening in the US. It potentially could change the entire landscape of medicine, increasingly infiltrated by quacks since it got its ass kicked by the chiropractors in Wilk v. AMA.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Anonymous Member

    can we have a OCR?
  8. xenubarb Member

    When this is over in Quebec, we can make it happen here. We'll have dox, judges' opinions, qualified governmental reviews. Then, if a handful of us can work together to target political and governmental entities in counties with Narconons, it should be a slam dunk. What happens at one Narconon happens at all of them. Their days are numbered.
    • Like Like x 7
  9. Anonymous Member

    Maybe, but you have to understand the history behind that word "associate."

    From Wikipedia:
    The AMA leadership wouldn't reverse a fundamental ethical principle just for the lulz. Someone got their balls into a vice first.

    The Scientologists ran something called, "Operation Sore Throat," prior to Wilk filing his suit against the AMA. Imma guessing the chiropractors had some help, basically. Wish I had dox. Maybe someone will leak some.
  10. Sponge Member

    Yes you can.



    Regional Service Quality and Complaints Commissioner Office

    Our Reference: 2010-00237



    Name of the Resource: Narconon Rehabilitation Center

    Person in charge of the case: Mr. Denis Grenier
    Regional service quality and complaints commissioner

    1 NOTICE: A Person Receiving this document regarding the complaint record of a user is required to respect the confidentiality of its content as provided in the Act Respecting Health Services and Social Services.

    Agence de la santé et des services sociaux
    de la Mauricie et du Centre-du-Québec

    Page 1 of 8


    Narconon Rehabilitation Center 2010-00237

    The complaint brought to our attention raises several issues related to the chosen approach by the center and the safety of users.

    > Use of niacin and medical monitoring

    On this subject, it should be noted that it is not up to the regional service quality and complaint commissioner to assess the quality of the medical intevention in the complaint investigation. In Quebec, it is the responsibility of the Collège des médecins. However, Narconon makes sure that every user who signs up with them consults a doctor to ensure they are able to follow the program. The documents provided also indicate that any subsequent medical treatment, prescriptions, analysis or other requests is the responsibility of the user. Although, if necessary. Narconon will assist them in obtaining appointments with doctors, dentists or other healthcare providers, and arrange for transportation (fees and transportation costs are the responsibility of the user)3.

    As part of the complaint investigation, we read a document written in 2010 by the Institut national de santé publique du Québec entitled Energy Drinks: Risks Related to Consumption and Public Health Prospects. Chapter 5 of this document deals with health effects of the various energy drink components. Section 5.1.7 of this chapter focuses on the B-complex vitamins, especially niacin.

    It states that "Niacin is the B-complex vitamin for which the potential for toxicity is greater. Therefore, depending on the person's age and condition, the recommended daily dose may vary between 2 and 35 mg (whereas Narconon's program suggests a daily dose of up to 5000 mg).

    Thus, "Some effects are observed starling with a dose of 30 mg daily. In fact, regular ingestion of a high dose of niacin (30 to 1000 mg) in the form of supplements or food fortification may cause flushing, i.e., sudden redness in the face, neck and chest, accompanied by itching, tingling and a burning sensation. Hepatotoxicity, intestinal disturbances, decrease in glucose tolerance, decrease in excretion of uric acid, hypotension, drowsiness, tachycardia, arrhythmia, dizziness and headaches are reported in intoxication cases. However, in moderate doses and for limited periods, niacin is a vitamin with low toxicity. Moreover, no adverse effects were associated with the consumption of niacin naturally present in food."

    In our opinion, we are confronted to diametrically opposed information and perceptions regarding the use of niacin. While information provided by Narconon presents niacin as a contributor to detoxification, the document written by the Institut national de santé publique states the dangers of toxicity associated with it. This contradiction raises important questions, especially regarding the users health and safety. For example, if, as suggested in the public health document, niacin presents risks of toxicity, is absorption of high doses a risk to users health and safety? If so, what should the medical monitoring be? Faced with such different interpretations, what is the center's or physician's obligation in regards with information to be given to the user on the risks and possible consequences of treatment?

    3 Narconon Trois-Rivières Admission et entente de services -
    consentement du candidat (document on admission and service agreement — user's consent),
    may 2006, page 2. Op. cit., page 42.

    Agence de la santé et des services sociaux
    de la Mauricie et du Centre-du-Québec

    Page 5 of 8


    Narconon Rehabilitation Center 2010-00237

    As previously mentioned, this issue could be addressed to the Collège des médecins du Québec. However, we believe that the situation will be clarified as part of the certification process of the center. This issue is addressed below.

    > Approach recognition

    In order for the center to be certified, they must have an approach that has already been recognized, as stated in Article 6 of the certification manual: "Activities regarding drug, alcohol or pathological gambling addiction must be part of an intervention program based on a known approach."

    In this regard, the Centre Dollard-Cormier — Institut universitaire sur les dependences has written a document (recognized by the ministère de la Santé et des Services sociaux) on the accepted practices in the treatment of young people and adults struggling with addiction. This document is a guide for people in charge of rehabilitation centers to validate their approach.

    The certification process put forward by the Government of Quebec provides the following steps:

    • An evaluation team from the Conseil québécois d'agrément (CQA) visits the center and makes sure that they comply to conditions in order to obtain their compliance certificate;

    • The evaluation team from the CQA delivers the compliance audit report to an experts committee. This committee must make sure that the evaluation process was done in respect with established standards, validate the analysis produced by the evaluation team, and make a recommendation for the issuance of the certification to the CQA, the correctives measures and required delays as well as the follow-up recommended;

    • The CQA must deliver the committee's recommendation to the Agence de la santé et des services sociaux of the region where the center is located;

    • Once it receives the report, the Agence de la santé et des services sociaux must analyze the recommendation made before taking the decision to issue the compliance certificate or not.

    The description of the process allows us to understand the responsibilities of those who must rule on the validity of the approach advocated by a drug, alcohol or pathological gambling addiction rehabilitation center. First of all, the experts committee has to decide if the center is in compliance with the certification conditions, including the validity of the approach, and then has to make a recommendation to the Agence de Is santé et des services sociaux. Then, the Agence has to analyze the recommendation made.

    In conclusion on that matter, it is not up to the regional service quality and complaints commissioner to decide on the validity of the approach advocated by Narconon. It is up to the different people involved in the certification process. However, considering the remaining questions regarding the use of niacin following our analysis, it appears important to us that these matters are carefully reviewed by the deciding people as part of the certification process.

    Agence de la santé et des services sociaux
    de la Mauricie et du Centre-du-Québec

    Page 6 of 8


    Let me know if you spot any errors and I'll fix them.

    edit: I removed the quote boxes so it is easier for copypasta
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Anonymous Member

    Some will have their balls in a vice again at some point. By then, David's dox will come in handy.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Anonymous Member

    I took care of someone who eventually died from liver disease and it's a horrible way to die. A doctor allowing anyone with liver problems to be given large doses of Niacin is almost beyond belief. When you take into account that the biggest cause of liver problems is alcohol and drug addictions then it's criminal that Narconon is allowed to continue with their programme.
    • Like Like x 5
  13. Intelligence Member

    ".....some will have their balls ,...,we still have their tiny balls in a vice and I've ordered another case of vices"

    • Like Like x 3
  14. 00anon00 Member

    This is so much win, David. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. HellRazor Member

    • Like Like x 1
  16. Intelligence Member

    You are very welcome. It's been a long haul arriving at this point. I guess I still haven't had time
    to sit back and digest how big of a win this really is.

    Now that we have the College of Physicians and the Health Ministry's reports, the door opens much further
    to begin treading on some of the statements in their reports.

    Although I believe the Cult in dumber than a dead stick in many instances, I have no doubt that they are
    working around the clock trying to save Narconon Trois-Rivieres from vanishing off the map. I think our
    buses have certainly received a few "THUDS" under them over all of this.

    Are they going to try to save it status quo, or run for Ontario? (in my opinion, Ontario here we come).

    But for now we must push forward in making absolutely sure that NN TR does NOT receive Certification.

    • Like Like x 1
  17. Intelligence Member

    Just going through some notes about NN International and Eduardo who was at NN TR. When the Scilon doctor in montreal was on vacation and not able to see NN TR victims, Eduardo DEMANDED in a loud voice that a certain Patient be driven to Ontaro to see a doctor after the patient was waiting so long.
    The Patient could easily have seen a doctor in Trois-Rivieres, but they drove him all the way to Ontario?

    Is that where their other Scilon doctor is; AND is this who they will now use for the time being?

    They don't dare send a Patient to a Regular/Normal physician and ask them to authorize and prescribe
    NIAIN doses up to 5,000mg in a hot sauna for 5 hours per day, seven days per week:)

    • Like Like x 3
  18. Intelligence Member

    AND this is why EVERY Narconon in the world should be SHUT DOWN immediately. But I guess it's one country at a time
    and I won't quit until every Narconon and First Step is banned and closed in Canada. The Scientology-Narconon
    program is quite likely the most dangerous and high health risk Rehab Program ever.


    • Like Like x 3
  19. Anonymous Member

    Anyone know the names of Narconon doctors in the USA?
  20. Intelligence Member

    There are ways to find out the doctors names, but I won't post how here.

    If you know the physician's name who is Narconon's scilon Quack, you can then file a few Formal Complaints. Need help?

    PM me.

    • Like Like x 1
  21. Intelligence Member

    WOW! Boy you guess/gals are HUGE FAST :)

    Already received two Physicians names who are scientologists and promoting Narconon. One is
    a member of a Narconon Board of Directors,..., LOL.

    Appropriate Juristiction for College of Physicians will be receiving a wee little Formal Complaint
    of about ump-teen dozen pages or so:)

    • Like Like x 2
  22. Intelligence Member

    Dr. Kathleen . Kerr, is the Director/Trustee of NARCONON INCORPORATED, which is actually ABLE CANADA,
    and big shot Brad Melnychuck: INCORPORATED&r=

    All of these^^^^^are big time TOXIC NIACIN "Pushers."

    2ib0v1u.jpg Dr. Kathleen J. Kerr

    27yzs6d.jpg Dr. Paul Jaconello

    [IMG]Dr. Paul Jaconello

  23. Intelligence Member

  24. Triumph Member

    did someone say Balls in a vice...

    a little song dedication to the Tiny Tot Terror Miscavige

    "She Had my "balls in a vice" but she left the dick ...its still hooked on but now it shoots too quick"
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Intelligence Member

    Was up early Monday morning and went downtown to "Chat" :)

    • Like Like x 4
  26. hushpuppy Member

    This will not end well for the shill quack :p
  27. Intelligence Member

    You're very correct in your summation. Not nearly done with this [IMG] yet.

    • Like Like x 2
  28. hushpuppy Member

    lmao David
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Tangerine Member

    Fantastic news, David! What a great prize after the long road. Excellent!
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Intelligence Member

    One of the very "prominent physicians" I had a meeting with was "awestruck and amazed" at
    what was accomplished so far. After I told him I wasn't finished with him yet and that I was
    requesting a Review Committee Hearing within 30 days and demanded Sanctions and Discipline
    for this subject physician, and how this was going to be accomplished, he called me "SHREWD"

    I didn't take English Literature at the University of British Columbia, so I had to look it up:):):)
    (I only studied Real Estate and Civil Law - Torts etc.)

    1. Characterized by keen awareness, sharp intelligence, and often a sense of the practical.
    2. Disposed to artful and cunning practices; tricky.
    3. Sharp; penetrating

    Did I ever say "bend over DM" ? No, that's not a nice thing to say, so I better not.

    • Like Like x 2
  31. Chipshotz Member

    David, you are the man!
    Congrats on your progress against this disgusting cult.
    You have my utmost respect.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Intelligence Member

    New Formal Complaint Being Filed Against the COS AND Narconon Trois-Rivieres - Strong Case (Practicing Medicine Without A License)
    (Medical Negligence)

    Sorry that it's in both English and French, but that's the way it copy/pastes.

    • Like Like x 1
  33. 00anon00 Member

    Holy fuck, you are awesome at the detail.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. fify
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  35. Intelligence Member

    I don't like the word shrewd (reminds me of "screwed",.., LOL)

    I'll stick with "Tenacious" zwkbgo.jpg

    • Like Like x 3
  36. Intelligence Member

    I'm very positive that Narconons in Quebec are NOT going to be Certified, and thus will not
    be allowed to continue operations. So to have them completely "Banned" would not require
    having a College of Physicians Investigation and Conviction.

    BUT, I really do believe it is neccessary to have a Decision by the College that confirms that
    Narconon Trois-Rivieres Practices Medicine Without a License. This would lend to a powerful
    "Case Precedent" that could be used in other Cases pending.

    This would suffice to File a Formal Complaint to the Alberta College of Physicians to have that
    Provinces Narconons shut down. AND also help to our advantage in having the ORG Saunas
    shut down. The ORGS are another issue which will be a little more difficult because they will
    no doubt claim "Spiritual/Religeous" protections. But Scientology is NOT recognized as a Religion
    in Canada:
    Perhaps we will end up in a Canada Supreme Court battle over this? Who knows,..., LOL? :)

    • Like Like x 5
  37. Intelligence Member

    So I'm going to bed now and dream,..., and wake up saying, "Why not?":):):)

    • Like Like x 1
  38. Random guy Member

    Good Xenu David, you are indeed shrewd!

    Go to bed, get some sleep, eat heathy and remember to have a social life!
  39. Anonymous Member

    sorry for your loss David.
    So sad.

    Many drug abusers and alcoholics of course may have liver damage when they go in to the program, it boggles my mind why any state, country or whatever would legally allow the admininistering of such high doses of niacin by untrained people. Not to mention the quackery and the failed success rates that go with it.
    I wish government officials would share their findings with others. Previous centers have closed down. You think they would send warnings out to the government and town officials about their reports and why they closed a center. Rather than it being covered by some local newspaper.

    They are literally killing people, yet Narconon survives. Is the government (rather insurance companies) more concerned with what McDonald's food will do to people?
    They make not smoking in public places illegal but they allow some untrained non medical person to adminster lethal doses of niacin and oil and put people on grueling regimets? Of course again the insurance companies not wanting to pay out second hand smoke cases may be the psuh behind that?
    Why they let these centers continue with out any investigations certainly is a head scratcher.
    And when a center has been closed in the past, why wasn't the information shared and sent out as warnings to others?
    Something is really wrong here.

    A possible new route for awarness? The insurance companies?
    Maybe they would listen if they thought they will be paying out for some of these cases?
    Maybe worth a shot?
    IDK is this stupid?

    thank you for your bravery and your relentless fight to save lives David
    • Like Like x 2
  40. DeathHamster Member

    It's like Carl Sagan and his Fully Armed Spaceship of the Imagination: It takes a little while, but it is certain.

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