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Mike Rinder on "The Hole," Indoctrination, Confessions, and His Ultimate Escape

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. jensting Member

    Reported in the SP Times interview of Tom De Voct (reportedly, I didn't check) from summer 2009 and in the book Blown For Good from 2009 (which I did remember).

    But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.

    Best Regards

    Jens
  2. jensting Member

    Sure is convenient for David Miscavige, though ;)

    Seriously, I'm not questioning Roland's motives in calling bullshit on M&M. I just saying that I remain to be convinced that they are the only sources of the story that Davis Miscavige personally C/S'ed Lisa McPherson.

    Best Regards

    Jens
  3. RolandRB Member

    He would have to have done it on a daily basis which I don't believe would have been possible for his sort of job flying around and bullying people. He is a senior exec.
  4. jensting Member

    You have read the part of "Blown for good" that I'm talking about, yeah?

    Best Regards

    Jens
  5. DeathHamster Member

  6. DeathHamster Member

    • Like Like x 1
  7. Anonymous Member

    no
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Anonymous Member

    Have you noticed most of them are old people LOL!!! (some are TRYING to look young – cough – Karen!!). marty has a monopoly on older, easy brainwashed people.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Yes, and just because Headley wrote IT IS GOTTA BE TRUE!
    LOL
    fucking naive people
    they all have a reason to fucking lie, just sayin
  10. "We Are Independent Scientologists; Today we are.......

    .............................."LESION"............................

    Our purpose, Our Batshit Insanity and Hubbard Lies: remains the same. Our strength: higher."
    • Like Like x 1
  11. DeathHamster Member

    Really? And what would Marc Headley's reason to lie be?
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Someone get JohnnyRUClear back out here to go all Grammar Nazi on their asses.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. RolandRB Member

    No I haven't. Would it make it true if I did? That assumes there is anybody telling the whole truth. I think these Sea Org members higher up are so degraded over so many years of being lied to and lying to others that they no longer deal in the truth.

    If we are to believe these stories then DM is running the case of hundreds of people. He would have to keep a constant eye on all of this and be up to date with all these peoples cases running over months and at the same time jetting around running the organisation worldwide and dealing with all sorts of issues that crop up. This is not possible. I can imagine if Tom Cruise or John Travolta were there he might have to be there to make sure everything went OK and he might well interfere in their case handling but not be doing this for ordinary Scientologists.

    People like Rinder and Ratbun know that any lie they can dream up over a few beers can be made to stick. And when the lie sticks then others can claim the lie is true. They have points to score. They have money to make. But this lie that David Miscavige is running people's cases (or at least where something goes wrong that particular case was being run by Miscavige) should be seen for the nonsense that it is.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. jensting Member

    And you can dream up any theory and promote it as more true than any other idea.

    Got it.

    Carry on, by all means

    Best Regards

    Jens
  15. jensting Member

    That's not the entire question, for me.

    For me, part of the question is: who benefits from Indies and ex-clams being alienated from Anonymous? Who has a track record of fielding anonymous "critics" who are more crazy than any sane critic would like to be?

    Best Regards

    Jens
  16. Dott Member

    Wait, there's a Truthiness Scale?
    • Like Like x 1
  17. jensting Member

    3/10

    Best Regards

    Jens
  18. Random guy Member

    "Like" does not strongly enough convey my feeling for this post! The indie-movement will remain a halfway house, and I do not worry the M&Ms will establish a new cult.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Well, Hubbard called it an E-Meter.......
  19. Anonymous Member

    I think anyone who has worked in a large corporate environment of any type would have no trouble believing that a senior exec could get involved with an underling. Precisely because they can circumvent the rules and have access to advanced resources.
  20. Random guy Member


    So, what you are saying is that anyone who has been in the SO can never again be trusted? I guess they're all defrocked apostates then, just like the cult says.
  21. I agree and don't think they even want to establish a new cult.

    I think the scamming, scheming cowards Rathbun and Rinder's plan is to form a consortium with some current execs and make a move on saving Hubbard's 'True Church' itself when David Miscavige is finally brought down and with it access to secret accounts, trademarks and real estate (their actual goal).

    "The evil David Miscavige and his black dianetics will have been exposed by these two hero's (not Anonymous, lol) and the MR's are here to save the day for the glorious LRH 'Tech' for mankind's only chance at survival."

    The deluded always try to cling to the 'Tech' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They won't give two shits about David Miscavige then anymore than they give two shits about Shelly Miscavige now who hasn't been heard from in 6 years.

    P.S. ALL Dianetics is Black Dianetics.

    LRH was a complete fraud; Fo Sho, Mofo.......

    • Like Like x 3
  22. RolandRB Member

    I am saying that the senior execs have become degraded over the years on being lied to and lying to others and that lying has become a normal tool for them. I take their claims with a pinch of salt. I can believe the "musical chairs" claim because I can visualize it happening. Also him handing out beatings and physical and mental humiliation. But when I read claims that Miscavige is running every ones case (or at least for people who later have trouble) then I can not visualize it as actually happening. Miscavige must be full time holding that organisation together and handling the near constant PR flaps and I am sure that that times up all his time and has him working into the night. I can not visualize him both doing that and C/Sing everybody's case. It's not plausible. Therefore I think the senior execs are making it up.

    How anybody can listen to Rinder's voice and see the way he waves his arms about and think he is telling the truth surprises me. He was a lying scumbag when in the cult so why should he stop now? Same goes for Ratbun. I think he does a better job of lying but if he had any honesty and remorse in him he would have already have gotten the CoS closed down by now. He chooses not to do the decent thing so I do not believe everything he says.

    I'd be more inclined to trust the word of ex SO who were not senior in the organisation or who had not been in very long.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  23. Anonymous Member

    Oh hai! OSA
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Anonymous Member

    Moonbat diarrhea.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  25. DeathHamster Member

    Yes.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Is that santorum on Cruise's face, or is he merely happy to see Us?
  27. Random guy Member

    But that's not what you said, Roland. You said you do not trust the Headlys (nor find it worth to read Blown for Good) because they are former SO. I too will not believe M&M without some corroborative evidence, but I find your characterization of the Headlys particularly unhelpful.
  28. RolandRB Member

    I just could not be bothered to buy the book.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. RolandRB Member

    I'm happy with the "musical chairs" and the beatings. I can see that happening. I am happy if anyone claims that Miscavige played a part in the handling of Tom Cruise's case or that of John Travolta. Again, I can see that happening. But I won't swallow the BS that Miscavige in running lots of people's cases (or just those that go wrong).
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Anonymous Member

    In a sense, he does handle all of them, and they all go wrong :)
    • Like Like x 1
  31. Anonymous Member

    LEGION IS 157 PEOPLE ?
    • Like Like x 1
  32. RolandRB Member

    Unless it is Tom Cruise or John Travolta then it is just stats and money coming in. Nobody in his position is going to give a flying fuck if people have wins or not. No wins just means more hours processing which means more money coming in. But in his position, I'd be all ears to Tom Cruise's or John Travolta's confessions. I'd just hope the walls were thick enough to stifle the laughter.
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Anonymous Member

    money? ;)
  34. Anonymous Member

    ^^THIS
  35. RolandRB Member

    I've got no problem with "musical chairs" and the "beatings" and degrading punishment in the "Hole". I can picture that. Let's face it, if we had a bunch of twats working for one of us for almost nothing promoting some science fiction self-help crap then we would be tempted to have a bit of fun with these cretins. What I don't like with the Headley thing is hsi claiming to be incarcerated (or was it his wife or both) when they could have walked out the place. The US respects people's right to make stupid choices with regard to religion. It is difficult in their case to work out whether he (or she or both) just made stupid choices or if they were somehow forced down that path. It would be hard to prove it either way. And let's face it, America is the Land of the Free so every religion there should have the right to torture, brainwash, imprison and rob people otherwise nobody would respect the American Way and their right to be the World's Policeman.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  36. Anonymous Member

    Endless war is their only religion.
    FEAR is their only God.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  37. anonanchovie Member

    Unlike me, say, who was stupid enough to walk into the trap, Marc and Clair were born into the cult and its community and were conditioned and trained in its mind fuck from the get go.

    You have no idea how difficult it is to break thought patterns. It takes a certain care and compassion as an ex or an anon to reach in there and empathize. Yet it is that empathy that is possibly the very key to unraveling the blubbard cult follower mystery.
    • Like Like x 3
  38. RolandRB Member

    I can understand that if they were born into the cult it would be hard for them to leave even if the way was clear for them to do so. But they are going to find it difficult to prove they were held there against their will if they could have walked away. The American Justice System <ahem> protects religious rights and through it allows people to make some very stupid religious choices. And you have got to bear in mind that the cult has an army of lawyers and people inside who will lie to support the cult. I think what the exes need to do is to go for the provable things like the times there were indeed locked in a room or in an enclosure. Get the evidence. Get the testimonies. The forced or coerced abortions as well. Get the names, dates, the hospital records. They need to concentrate on the provable stuff where it is clear that they were not in the position to make a choice. Get expert opinion that they can use in court to say that this sort of treatment conditioned them, which I am sure people have used before, but only as a back-up to the provable things. Let them say they felt happy staying there at times if need be to make it all believable but concentrate on the damaging provable things when they had no choice.

    The Headley case is pivotal in that if they fail to get compensation then nobody else will get it.
    • Like Like x 1
  39. Random guy Member

    You will of course have noticed Mark Headly did escape the cults retrieval team by getting police protection? The logs exist. In their case against the cult, the abuse and escape has not been disputed, only whether the cult has a constitutional right to do what they have done to them.

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