Mike Rinder on "The Hole," Indoctrination, Confessions, and His Ultimate Escape

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Apr 4, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Mike Rinder on "The Hole," Indoctrination, Confessions, and His Ultimate Escape
    by Tony Ortega, Village Voice. 4th April 2012
    Includes videos
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Dott Member

    Is it my imagination, or is Tony O being seduced by the Dark Side (Indie Bullshitters - MR x 2)
  3. Anonymous Member

    This article is a blockbuster and the videos carry a lot of impact. When at the start of the article Ortega called the hole a concentration camp, I thought it was an exaggeration. But the more I hear this place described and how the prisoners were treated the more I think that it is not an exaggeration. Granted, the inmates do not fear for their lives and nobody there has been murdered, but everything else about the living conditions fits.
    • Like Like x 5
  4. DeathHamster Member

    While they try to offload anyone who's obviously dying to low-budget wog nursing homes, with the number of people in the Hole over the span of years, eventually (if not already) they're going to fuck up and kill someone with poor conditions, bad food, lack of medical care, shit sanitation and crowding and purification rundowns.

    When that happens, will it turn out that these people died nowhere near the Hole (which doesn't exist), or will Davie just wish the body out into the cornfield?
    • Like Like x 3
  5. RightOn Member

    I don't agree with the bolded.
    Ask some exs who were in the hole or on the RPF if they ever feared for their lives.
  6. Anonymous Member

    I find Rinder's version of when Marty beat him up him not credible at all.
    His body languange and squirming in his seat tells otherwise. IMO
  7. Anonymous Member

    I like Rinder's Aussie accent. In any event, he is quite a smart guy. Comes across much better than Marty.
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Anonymous Member

    I don't think Tony O is being seduced and I don't think he is buying any of the indie bullshit. But it's a story, and he is reporting it. He is not an anon, but a journalist, and good for him for managing to establish a relationship of trust with M&M.
    I liked the Rinder interview. He sounded smart and reasonable and analytical. Not the devil everybody thought he was.
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Anonymous Member

    The devil isn't smart, reasonable or analytical? Who knew!
  10. RightOn Member

    although I think his swearing didn't help with the interview.
    I am not a prude at all, in fact I swear like a sailor myself, but I am not being interviewed. It's just an observation. I just think he would have come across better if he didn't swear. If he wants people to take him more seriously he should watch what he says. Quoting someone else is one thing, but to swear in a taped interview is not cool in my opinion. Yeah I know the Voice is more of a "cool" media outlet... but meh he could have toned it down a bit .
    I don't believe all that he said either, But the general public will, and that is the important part I guess.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. jensting Member

    While many are reasonably (IMHO) questioning M&M's motives, and I have been known to express shortness of temper with the position Rinder takes, let's not forget two things
    - David Miscavige hates the fact that they can speak out at all. That's got to be worth something
    - Others did speak out (RW Young & wife, the Aznarans, J Prince) and a whole lot of no action from officialdom ensued.

    Best Regards

    • Like Like x 5
  12. RightOn Member

    one more thing...
    years ago WWP would have had a fap a thon over this.
    But with all the COS fail in the last couple of years, articles like this happen quite often now. :)
    I vividly remember people on the forum asking if Rinder was the "smoking gun".
    well not yet anyways.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Anonymous Member

    Well, he's still suffering from it, hasn't had it "run out" in auditing, yet.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Trufax... only we expected the sources of such to be more reliable.
    If Mike rejected Marty, I might find him more believable. Neither will happen.
  15. Anonymous Member

    He has a hard-on for Tony, in a completely heterosexual way.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. RolandRB Member

    Rinder is a Kiwi.

    Marty is a fat thug.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Quentinanon Member

    Rinder is originally from Melbourne, Australia. Aussie.
  18. RolandRB Member

    First, some background that we picked up while getting a tour of Scientology's spiritual home.

    Rinder was born in 1955 to Ian and Barbara Rinder in Adelaide. (He has two younger siblings, Andrew and Judy.) Ian was an entrepreneur and owned a series of businesses, including a wholesale grocery distributor, an aerosol canning company, a travel agency, a restaurant -- he even raised goats at one time. Barbara kept the books

    Duh! Adelaide is in Australia.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. RolandRB Member

    Did I hear right that Rinder said that Miscavige C/Sed Lisa McPherson's "case" and decided that she was Clear? 2 minutes into part 5 of 8.

    That is so much of a lie. Davey the Dwarf has never done any C/Sing. That Rinder cunt waives his arms about too much to be telling the truth.

    Who would have thought that a senior Scientology exec would lie.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anonymous Member

    I've seen execs stand in the Ivory Tower (Senior Case Supervisor's private office) and tell the C/S what to order in terms of auditing and sec checks, and it was done. It's no stretch for Slappy Dwarf to have done the same thing in Lisa's case. Who'd call him out on it? No one within Scientology, that's for sure.
    • Like Like x 2
  21. RolandRB Member

    I don't see why he should. What evidence is there that DM has ever done such a thing? Why would he put his oar in in Lisa McPherson's Case before it became an issue?
  22. Anonymous Member

    It's a claim that M&M have made a number of times. It is apparently the real reason that Lisa died.

    Nothing to do with the fact that the Introspection Rundown is pure quackery and the local Scientologists were following its strict instructions to keep applying it no matter what.

    Flubbing the IR is even an Ethics violation.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. RolandRB Member

    My impression is that DM knows nothing about the tech and is and has always been a pure executive type. Add to that that Lisa McPherson was an ordinary Case at Clear stage so there is no reason for DM to be involved.

    This tells me that Rinder is lying and M&M were deeply involved in the McPherson death.
  24. Anonymous Member

    that is all.
    • Like Like x 2
  25. DeathHamster Member

    Pure executive types know everything.

    Too bad for your theory that Don Jason and Tom De Vocht also agree that Miscavige was involved in McPherson's case.
    "Expert in every field", see, what did I tell you?
    • Like Like x 1
  26. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Mike and Marty need to tell what happened to Lisa. There are still lots of gaps out there.
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Anonymous Member

    It must be a weird trip for Rinder to be speaking out about indoctrination, abuse, etc. I'm happy to see the ex-spokesperson for the cult trying to come clean. (Sure there are lots of gaps but I'd rather see this than have another ex-member go into hiding while the cult machine marches on.)
  28. DeathHamster Member

    Damned straight! Starting with Rinder's slip (backed by Abelson) that Lisa McPherson died in a hotel room.
    Rinder could clarify if she died on the way, or if they knowingly loaded a corpse into a van to dump at a hospital with a Scientologist doctor. (After he checks to see if there's a statute of limitations on that.)
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Anonymous Member

    Interestingly he says he and Marty worked on the Lisa case for 4 years, yet they didn't know miscavige C/Sed her??? That is fucking impossible! as far as i read the C/S notes are ALWAYS written hahahahaha. fucking lier. I call bullshit!
    • Like Like x 1
  30. RolandRB Member

    I think the above fills in the gaps nicely to some extent.

    I am always happy to be proved wrong. :)

    But there is no proof so far.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Lisa McPherson seems to have been intentionally silenced. I wonder what it was that she knew?
  32. Anonymous Member

    Define come clean. I didnt see him coming clear at all, just the same "midget is bad" "we are good".
  33. Anonymous Member

    Whether or not he knows anything about the magic beans he clearly involves himself in their application. Look at the corrections in the Basics, Golden Age of Tech, etc.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. RolandRB Member

    I agree
  35. RolandRB Member

    That's just an exec pressuring people to make money. That's not the same as believing in it yourself. That would be as ludicrous as people thinking the Pope believed in God. This would be a logical contradiction as he would not be fit for office if that were the case.
  36. Anonymous Member

    And there would be no reason for this same exec to nudge the odd person's case to the point where they could start on the lucrative OT levels?
  37. DeathHamster Member

    Any notes from Miscavige in her folder would have hit the shredder first thing, even before Miscavige ordered Rinder and Rathbun to clean up Scientology's involvement. Davie has his priorities.

    You're calling bullshit on Don Jason and Tom De Vocht. Got any good reason for that?
  38. RolandRB Member

    "Yingling and church spokesman Tommy Davis also said Miscavige was not in Clearwater at the time, and they say they have minutes of meetings he attended in California to prove it. They also question how De Vocht and Jason, almost 14 years later, could remember anything about a woman who then was just another parishioner."
  39. Anonymous Member

    All Miscavige would have to have done, is to ORDER the Case Supervisor to write the instructions Miscavige dictated. D'you really think there's one person active on SO staff who'd have the balls to say, "No, sir, I won't do that"?
  40. DeathHamster Member

    Oh well, Miscavige's personal lawyer Monique Yingling and Tommy Davis. Seems legit.

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