Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PSKL, Mar 4, 2011.
Exposing yourself to quackery generally isn't a good idea imo, but it's your body.
I think you'll be endangering yourself by
1) going off your meds;
2) spending too much time in a sauna
3) taking 5000 mg of niacin [recommended dosage is 15-30]
4) drinking oil [yeah, oil to supposedy replace fatty tissue in your body]
You can get seriously hurt doing something like that. I would not wish for a healthy person to sing up for Narconon, but somebody who is on meds, even less so. I'm on meds myself [anxieties] and I can't imagine going off them and being put in a stressful situation at the same time.
That's kind of what makes this idea appeal to me. Either things go "okay" and I get to write a damning report of their "medical" practices and Scientology indoctrination, or they don't go "okay," my mental health starts to deteriorate, we'll be able to see it in my writing and the madness into which I descend, and the story will be that much more compelling. As someone who is well-versed in mental health literature and can write decently well, is mentally ill, and in need of medications, I feel as though I might be ideally placed to carry out a project such as this without their realizing my intentions until the article's already public.
If we keep in mind that I'm only one person and think about how many people a project like this could help, then it seems rational to me to want to go through with it.
This is not a good idea. Because it would put you in harms way.
I say this sincerely - don't do that.
A great deal of work/research has been done, and there is no need in any way, shape or form, for you to put yourself in a situation like that.
why not just look at the tremendous amount of resourceful information currently out there.
RESEARCH. not, crash and burn.
I kind of want to see the anon poster do it, for the morbid curiosity (and the lulz of course). It's of course an indescribably horrible idea...but I totally want to see him do it anyway.
lulz @me or lulz@the whole thing?
The whole thing. I just have the urge to make some popcorn, sit in the corner, and tell people "watch this shit go down, this is gonna be good."
The way I see it, the more experience you have with a topic the better you can write about it and the more influential you can be. To maximize my efficacy in writing about them, I have to *really* know Narconon, from the inside.
I also look at it as something of a numbers game. Worst-case scenario, one person becomes psychotic and delusional and Narconon's abuses become more public. Best-case, I get through it okay, get the program closed, and stop hundreds of "medical" abuses from occurring. Weighing the outcomes, it seems like a no-brainer. With what probability is the worst-case scenario likely to happen (maybe 30%) and with what probability is the best-case scenario likely to happen (maybe 10%). It seems, then, that if my work can prevent three cases of psychosis in the best case scenario, then it's worth it. Shutting down the whole local program would, I think it's safe to say, more than accomplish that.
If you go through with it, you should take careful steps in advance to ensure you have a network of friends, family, and anons to PITCH A ROYAL FUCKING FIT if something happens to you, or if they don't hear from you for a while, or if you go absolutely batshit crazy. If you're the super spy invading the terrorist caves, you need the guys on the radio back at home base ready to send in a nuke if something happens to you.
Send a PM to Intelligence and ask him if he would share his opinion on your plan.
My anon opinion is noooooooo.
My family would throw a fit if something happened to me--in fact, it might surpass the fit they'd throw if I went to Narconon in the first place. I think I'd do it in the Boston area because there isn't a location very close to my hometown, and Boston is close enough for weekly visits, as well as where I went to college, and a lot of my college buddies are still in the area. I wasn't a part of Anonymous when I lived there, so gathering a network of Anons to support me and throw said fucking fit is going to be a bit difficult. Past making sure that the right support networks are in place, I think the biggest hurdle will be finding subsidization for this idea. Haven't found out yet whether the MA government "helps" people get into Narconon.
Sent Intelligence a PM yesterday; haven't heard back from him. Giving him some time before bumping the conversation.
^Boston anons know their shit, if you do this please get in touch with your local anons in case they need to...I don't know, work with the police to perform a welfare check on you. Here, have a Boston anon: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/members/wmanon.1163/
Thanks for the contact. PM'd her, so maybe that'll help set me up with some kind of support network should I end up going through with this. Still a couple hurdles to get over, but I'm going to plan this as carefully as I can.
Please don't do this. You cannot predict or control what will happen if you go off your meds, and you would be putting yourself at the mercy of the worst possible people while in a very vulnerable state. There's also no predicting what the toxic levels of niacin would do to anyone but particularly to someone who is already physically (neurologically) fragile. There are already people working hard on Narconon--it would be much more effective, and much less dangerous, for you to throw your support behind them. Ask them what's the best way to help, rather than reinventing the wheel. As the other poster said, send a PM to David Love--ask his opinion about how you can best help.
^ I agree.
With taking an idea like that so seriously, maybe you should bypass Narconon, and find some Mental Health Help.
the person is unwilling to do any research, but wants to be a douche.
good luck with that. if you do go, after being reasonably warned, do not count on this anon poster to support your stupid decision.
I already get psychiatry and psychotherapy. Right now, I'm almost completely sane, and I'm sane enough to know that I'm not 100% sane. Not many people have that kind of self-awareness.
To the person who replied afterwards, what makes you so sure that I haven't done my research? I'm a quick learner, and I had a 5-hour in-person conversation with a longtime Anon recently, and we discussed this possibility. I then did my fair share of reading. I know the risks, and I know that they are high for me, personally. If an activist trying to do something pro-active is douchey, then guilty as charged, I suppose.
I should note that it would take several things to fall into place for me to do this. No need for namecalling yet.
I do appreciate the concern. Really. But isn't someone who really needs his meds the person who should be doing this? I have more to lose than someone else might, and if I begin to lose it, that will come through in the things I write, providing more damning evidence than a sane person with a drug problem could.
I've done my research on Niacin, too. I don't want a life-threatening toxic reaction, but am reasonably sure that I could stop them from making me take enough for something really bad to happen, since I have a lot of experience with testing out different combinations of drugs and titrating them at an appropriate pace. I think I'll notice (and write about it) when this isn't done properly.
I can't say I support you putting yourself in harm's way, but I admire your courage. I would rather you didn't do this, but the best of luck to you if you try.
I kind of like this idea but, then again, I'm a sock puppet. So what do I know?
Long live Tom Cruise!
There are a multitude of ways you could approach this subject without causing yourself personal harm.
If you had really done any research, as you claim, you would be aware of the very real seriousness nature of what you are proposing to do, and the risks. Go to You Tube FFS.
If you hear 200 people tell you about their personal heartache and sickness after drinking Bleach, and warned you not to drink Bleach, the smart thing would not to go and do the same thing. (and lest you take this example literally, DO NOT DRINK BLEACH. It is bad for you)
you are all mental.
View attachment robot-chicken-stupid-monkey-stoop_d_monkey_kiddie_
You seem to be under the impression that if I put myself in danger, I must not know what I'm doing. This is a faulty assumption. What if I just don't have the self-preservation gene(s)?
I haven't heard anyone argue that this wouldn't be a positive for the common good yet. That's my primary concern here. Show me how it's not a good idea in general, rather than just telling me that it's a bad idea for me personally (of which I am already well aware). Just because YOU wouldn't do it doesn't mean it's not something that SHOULD be done.
I could be convinced that it's not a net positive for the common good, but with all the thinking I've done about it, it seems unlikely that this wouldn't be a net positive and, pretty likely, a large one at that.
if you harm yourself, you are not doing anyone any good for the greater good.
bye bye tard, i am not here to play therapist. think about what i said.
The Anon in question here wants to do this:
“The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”
Nobody ever got hurt in the process of achieving something for the common good? I beg to differ. And I'm not asking for another therapist here. I've already got a perfectly good one. Instead, I'm asking you to play philosopher. If you don't want to do that, then thanks for your input but we should probably part ways here.
No. Absolutely not.
Not really, since you've publicly announced you're planning on entering the program under false pretenses. You could find yourself in legal trouble, without anything good coming of it. Just so you know, WWP is obliged to hand over identifying information to law enforcement, etc., if it's requested. You really could get in trouble for this.
Once you're locked into Narconon, I seriously doubt that you'll be able to stop anything. People who pride their ability to titrate are often the ones who get in trouble. You're so overconfident that you sound almost hypomanic to me. Do yourself a very big favor and drop this. It's unnecessary, so no need to do it. Get on board with existing projects, don't go off half-cocked on your own.
Have you contacted David Love yet? If not, why not? More information can't hurt.
Edit: More to the point, I suggest you discuss this plan with your therapist. It's only reasonable.
I do like that sentiment, Tom.
Well, I guess now I'll have to do more research--this time into whether what acceptable "reasons" are for admission, and what can happen if it's found that you've gone in for different reasons than those purported.
I can see how I might sound hypomanic (in fact, I was hypomanic for a few weeks until about two weeks ago--my therapist doesn't think I am anymore though) and again, I do appreciate the concern. I'll run my idea by her when I see her tomorrow (she's heard of "worse" plans from me, by the way). I PM'd Love yesterday and am waiting for a reply.
I'll drop it for now if nobody wants to discuss and help me plan this, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to do it. I can say, though, that I'm not going to do it for at least a month to make sure that I'm reasonably sane when I make the actual decision, and to make sure that I don't complicate things for my family before my brother's graduation (consideration of my family and what it could do to them is the biggest thing that might stop me from making this decision).
More later. Or not. We'll see.
I personally think this might be a bit redundant. Aren't there already lots of stories about how people got poorly treated by Narconon? People who went there purely because they believed it would help them, without the inherent skepticism you already have? These stories would have complete reversals from trusting to distrusting, and would be more valuable than anything you could come up with. IMPO, the risk does not outweigh the benefits.
You are absolutely the wrong person for this highly delicate marcab spai mission.
Report back to base at one soldier, your mother is worried sick about you.
This sounds sensible. The more you think it over, the more likely you'll be to come up with something both useful and reasonably safe.
I talked about the idea with a few people, my therapist included. I think Intelligence's work--which is admirable--will, in the best-case scenario, get Narconon out of Quebec (mayhaps all of Canada?). But his case won't close Narconon down in the States, even if it does bring some much-needed attention to that particular front group. I stand by my earlier claim that what we need in the US is some kind of investigative/Gonzo journalism piece to expose Narconon's unsound medical practices and the quasi-religious indoctrination that goes on at their facilities. This, coupled with a court case, could be the ticket to ending that CoS cash cow.
The spai in question would hopefully meet the following criteria:
1) Psychiatric patient and or/somebody with drug abuse history
2) Excellent writing skills
3) Doesn't afraid of anything, particularly backlash from the CoS
4) Hopefully, this person would also go into the program not specifically intending to take it down. They'd need to enter without false pretenses, hoping to recover from their addictions or to get off psychiatric medications.
5) Can either pay for the program on their own or can find subsidization in one way or another
6) Well-connected to other Anons in the region--Anons willing and able to throw a fucking fit should anything go wrong
I realize that I'm probably not the best candidate for this, since I'm more mentally "fragile" than most, and I fail to pass items 4) (because I'd be going into it knowing what I was doing) 5) (I gots no monies) and 6) (I'm a newfag). However, once we find out what's happening with Intelligence's case, I think it will be about time to come back to this idea, re-examine it, and see if this is something that can be pulled off. If nobody else volunteers, I may well still be willing to offer up my services.
If they say you can't continue the program if you continue writing, then kick you out they can claim you never completed it and dismiss anything you write. They will also interrogate you on an emeter about your thoughts, so how do you plan to keep lying about your purpose of being there while deteriorating mentally?
You don't progress there without studing LRH materials and writing your "wins" at every stage, which they can use against you. At least get all the materials from the leaks sections on this site first so you aren't "learning" anything new in their controlled environment. Just reading the material written about the cult by others will take you many months
They are experts at perverting the course of justice and settling out of court with gag orders, so don't bank on that being of any use to anyone but yourself.
I--or anyone else who might undertake this project--would have to try to keep the writing a secret. I'm thinking smuggling in a whole bunch of notepads (so that if one gets found, others remain) or writing in all but the top few pages of a sticky notepad might do the trick.
Thanks for the link. Don't worry, this isn't something I'd do right away. I still have a lot of research to do before I can be pretty sure this will work. I won't--and I hope nobody else would--do this without knowing what to expect.
I know that people can generally be bought off if the price is right, soI'm not going to be so arrogant as to suggest that I'm an exception to the rule. I do, however, think that I'm capable of driving a relatively hard bargain, if it should come to that. Hopefully, it won't.
Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!