May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

The obstacle to presuming millions of dollars of recovery from the Scilon corporations, is the same obstacle Moxon-Abelson (et al) always implement: Discovery.

There are certainly more victims than there are cooperating plaintiffs in this filing, and the Scilons have a track record of tying up any court order requiring them to identify their staffers by all means possible (and then once identified, relocating those staffers, away from where they can be reached directly).

External means of identifying staffers, may be W-2/1099 filings with the IRS (if they were made) or filings with other government agencies (like ICE, if staffers were brought in as "religious workers" from other countries).

Beyond that, it may rely on the accuracy of memories of ex-staffers (or unrelated data, like persons identified in prior court actions, or voter rolls).

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

and

QFT

Gawd but I do love this. It is SO righteous!!!

It's really good to see you posting on WWP Barry. And, as always, thank you for what you are doing!

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

DITTO >9000

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Ironically it appears that with the 25% split the Sea Org(ers) will be getting $50 a week again if the maximum is penalty is $200 per pay period ??

If $200 is maximum per pay period and IF their are still 5000 Sea Org workers in the U.S. (I have always assumed that claim was both world wide and inflated) would that be $1M per pay period. (?) For the 1 year statute of limitations $52M ? And because this is a California court would it include the Sea Org from other states ?

If this is the case I am even more glad that I have been supporting Marc in his action. As this perfectly describes the flaw in the legal system where people who are not being paid wages are put in the position where they need to hire an attorney for what I understand to be 25% of a small $200 penalty. I also hope that the 1 yr. statute of limitations is from the last day of employment so the penalty would not result in a mere $2600 for employees that are unlikely to be able to afford any savings. (25% of $200 for a 1 year period) That would also reward the government with $7,800 per victim per year for not doing their job if wages are given weekly and if I understand correctly.

By findings I assume you mean new information that is discovered in the course of the case. I expect that could be quite a lot, however the end result of those findings has been known would there be any reason to not keep the Department of Labor and other agencies informed of the abuses they have been aware of for years as well as new findings as they are uncovered ?

I fully agree that Scientology should not be allowed to continue its blatant abuse of its workers. I seem to disagree only (and I am not trying to put words in your mouth) that because the Dept. of Labor has failed to act in the past that it can not be encouraged to act in the future. And that information disseminated to every level of government does not need to be kept until a court ruling. It would be unfair for us to use you and your clients as our personal army to go this alone. Just as it would have been unfair for us to keep to ourselves information on T.I.P. as it was discovered.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I liek this thinking.
Its about justice.
And justice means, among other things, paying yer dues (backwages etc., refunds etc., and most importantly court costs and 'harassment' fees!)

The shit that Co$ has put their victims through all has a cost, in time, money, taking away the human right to enjoy their lives, stress, man it goes on-anon!

If they ( Co$ & DM (that's you David Miscavige!) really wanted to make things right they would empty their fucking bank accounts to make things right without a question instead of fighting everyone and trying to make them all look like the ones who are screwed up and bawwing. Pay them all! Git 'er done, continue scam.

Sheesh, its so friggen simple it sickens me.

And so complicated I am intrigued enough to keep peeling back the layers of 'ICK'.

Nuff fer nao. Baltherin' fool I am.



:/

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I sued a scilion in small claims court twice for fraudulent business practices and won. I then helped 7 other people do the same creating about 10 cases going through small claims against this scilion. That finally attracted the attention of the city DA who did investigate the scilion but unfortunately found nothing to get this person on.

So yes I think these civil proceedings and as many as possible has to get some kind of government attention.

I am making lots of popcorn.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

It's interesting that the anecdote you selected ends with nothing happening.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Control freak.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

And your point is.......?

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

All this sounds great on paper, but what are the real possibilities this is going somewhere and what does court orders regarding notice and opt out procedures actually mean?

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

"Findings" means the court's conclusions based on the evidence. eg. The Wollersheim Court of Appeal:

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Operation Snow White and the Evil Dwarf

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I do not know if a penalty class action will happen because , so far, there is no plaintiff with standing who left within the past year and who is willing to deal with the hassle, family disconnect, freeloader debt and basically being on the firing line. That potential lawsuit is not even 'great on paper" because it does not exist. If it happens, it will not be a matter of being just paper.

A civil penalty class action is what is called a "cumulative remedy".
Employees may pursue wage claims, in addition to civil penalties, in such a class action or in their own personal lawsuits. The statutes of limitations for wages, human trafficking, fraud, and recission of illegal contracts is much longer than the sol for "penalties". Also, the persons willing to take on the cult tend to be people who have been out for several years. Therefore, the existing lawsuits are for wages, not penalties.

As far as this going anywhere, it will go as far as the law will allow. You doing anything better?

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Epic thread, BFG doesn't afraid of anything.

Seems a critical mass is approaching.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

3 lawsuits now. Imagine when that number is tripled.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Bear in mind that after a judgement is rendered or settlement is reached, and the scientology crime syndicate has to pay up, there should be a court ordered stipulation in place that no employee, officer or agent of organized scientology is to order or suggest that the compensation cheque be signed over or refused by any payee, spouse of any payee, immediate family member of any payee, or employer of any payee, and that there is to be no threats or retaliation of any kind directed at any payee, spouse of any payee, immediate family member of any payee, or employer of any payee for cashing or depositing said compensation cheques. Nor should any scientology-connected organization be allowed to provide a cheque cashing service for said compensation cheques. Cheques should be mailed out by a CPA not connected with organized scientology.
After settlement, there would definitely be a program put in place by the scientology crime syndicate to attempt a recoup of compensation paid to current members by coercive means.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Yes, they will also probably try to get staff to endorse the checks over to IAS, C of S or affiliated organizations as "donations" by enforcing loyalty with threats of SP declares. Watch out for that one.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Hey Patty and etc...If you left within the past year, you would have a great case, and your life back...go Patty, go!

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

LOL

OSA lurkers you might want to keep that in mind.

Wouldn't their family's have to be out of Scientology until it was resolved as well ?

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Yes, this is a big obstacle. People leaving the cult are usually too unstable to deal with taking them on, especially legally. The fear that is instilled in Scio is real. Even now, ten years after leaving the cult, and speaking out publicly about them, I still get these twinges of terror every now and then.

Thank you so very, very much for standing up to the cult. Big hugs to you.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I was raised in a scientology household (my dad was public, my mum was on staff). They eventually divorced though as my mum was working 60 to 70 hours a week at the org. scientology ruined my childhood. I spent all my spare time cleaning the org and running errands. I was lucky to get a single good meal in a day. My classmates at school shunned me. There were times when I was forcibly restrained and punished by staffers for no logical reason. I was also put on the cans from the age of 8 and was required to answer some very disturbing questions (I think Dianetics for children was toned down in the early 90's tho).

I'm not trying to garner pity or sympathy from anyone. I've rebuilt my life and I run a successful business now.

I'm just wondering if it were possible for me to sue the CoS? Is there a statute of limitations in the UK for this?

I am watching this thread with great interest. BFG is brave .... and in the right.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Bravo and many thanks Mr. B.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Sounds like you sustained a great deal of abuse as a child in scientology. Good on you to recover from it.
I would consult a solicitor about the statute of limitations. You can prosecute if you are within the time limitations for filing a lawsuit.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

i like the ex-$cilons coming out of the woodwork at the smell of money. it's okay guys. nothing to be ashamed about. the time has come to get what's yours, what was taken from you buy the asthmatic dwarf and his play pal tommy girl.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

In some countries, especially in cases of abuse, the courts will extend or waive the limitation period. Think of the child abuse cases re children in the care of the Catholic Church. In your case, the limitation period would not have commenced until you were 18, and you could argue that you could not then sue because:
a) you were recovering;
b) you were still a scientologist (if you were);
c) you were afraid to (if you were).

Consult a lawyer.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I wouldn't be so sure it's the smell of money. Unless there are some ex-scilons hanging around here who don't realize that taking the cult on is bound to result in a protracted years-long fight, and probably a pretty nasty one. And even if they ultimately win in the end, there's always the likelihood that the CoS will evade paying for as long as possible.

I imagine most exes who dream of suing are motivated by more than just money.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

i agree with Scatman: check with a solicitor to see if the statute of limitations has run out on your case.

now is the time for every ex-$ci to check with an attorney.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I don't want to discourage ANY litigation against the CoS.

But if the statute of limitations has expired or even if it has not REPORT your abuse.

Taking civil action is only one (expensive) way to fight the cult. It is just as expensive for the cult to fight a criminal case as it is a civil one and perhaps more so. Granted a criminal case will also have a statute of limitations in most cases but there seems to always be a second generation of people being abused.

But PLEASE only report facts, don't draw your own conclusions of what the cult might be doing. Government officials like to connect the dots themselves they don't like having their work done for them. So if you have a theory that shows how they defrauded the government or something keep it to yourself unless you have first hand knowledge of a Church official telling you to do something illegal.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

There are so many misconceptions about litigating againt scientoliogy that I
do not know where to start. I have been doing this part time since about 1986. I started the Aznaran case only because I could not find anyone else to do it and when I heard about the RPF my jaw hit the table. I worked on Wollersheim's appeal and did a 3 month jury trial in the Yanny case. I jknow the enemy.

Their bark is far worse than their bite. They are vulnerable to sustained attack. Please understand this---the current labor law cases are very different from prior cases based upon tort claims. It is a different ballgame. I may post a more detailed message later, but i felt some comment was appropriate because , to be blunt, there is alot of blather about this and in a perfect world people wouild be better informed.

There are problems in every case. An old partner of mine said---it is war and both sides get ammo---that is accurate. But that does not mean that you should be afraid to engage in battle.

On a related point, I have been asked to comment on the possibility that it was Moxon who told Marty Rathbun that the employment contracts and confidentiality agreements would not hold uip in court. The answer is we do not care which one of their lawyers made that comment. If marty rathbun testifies at trial, as we believe he will, it is case over for the bad guys. That will be the proverbial nail in the coffin.

In that context, attacking Moxon is pointless. He is basically harmless.

I will not answer every question posed to me in private messages--but if it amuses me I will . Boredom is a terrible thing.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Seen from abroad, this seems strange. But whatever it takes...

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Any chance if you get depositions from some interesting people that you can upload them on you tube prior to going to court ?

And would there be any strategic disadvantage in doing that ?

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Yeah where are dox from the depo

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Moxon is just a tool? <----- my words. I wonder how long he will let himself be used this way? Moxon is supposed to be smart, how can he let David Miscaviage destroy his career and reputation this way? Hopefully Moxon smartens up before long.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I believe depo happened, I just think it would be lulzy to see Miscavige squirm.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

AFAIR, this was already addressed in another thread.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

thanks for this Barry. any more you can provide -- specific or otherwise is much appreciated.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

[Re 75/25 split to state/employees for private enforcement of labor laws]

It's not that different from the qui tam writ, which originated in England in the Middle Ages, in which one could prosecute a violation of the law on behalf of the Crown and take a portion. It encourages the enforcement of the law by giving the enforcer a part of the purse.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

Moxon's career and reputation have been utter shit since at least 1980, if not earlier. No redemption possible.

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

*cough*

re: May 12th Case Update - Marc Headley Deposition

I agree with Kermit.