Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Nov 30, 2012.
DOX or GTFO
Yep. That thread seriously fucks me off - there's no humour or smarts, just flat out nasty shit. IMHO, Mosey is a "civilian" in this dispute and, for better or worse, she's hooked her wagon up to Marty's and become another Scientology victim. Still, this is Scientology we are dealing with. There is a chance that thread is a false flag operation designed to garner sympathy and leverage a more pro-Marty atmosphere. I doubt that Hobson is here on his own.
No DOX = Acceptable truth and, no doubt, fully in compliance with "standard" Scientology tech.
The PIs harassing Rathbun are clearly an example of a Fair Game operation. They may also be something else, but that is beside the point I'm trying to make about Fair Game.
I was trying to sum up how I felt about this a few days ago and just didn't write anything because I thought it through and realized I, personally, couldn't care less about Marty's problems. You nailed my thoughts exactly and I would go one step further to say that this is the first step in something larger for Marty and his Martians. Reasons for leaving: 1% confederate PI, 29% COS harassment affecting personal life, 70% desire for fresh meat.
[quote="YouSeeNothing, post: 2232159, member: 77270Reasons for leaving: 1% confederate PI, 29% COS harassment affecting personal life, 70% desire for fresh meat.[/quote]
Yup. That's how life works. Nothing's black and white, is it?
Okay, my rudder gantry needs another layer of fiberglass at the corners.
Yup. That's how life works. Nothing's black and white, is it?[/quote]
He was "fine" with the SquirrelBusters and 24-hour surveillance affecting Mosey's life but one bumper sticker and he's all "I'm outta here!"?
What fair game? A hidden camera in a house across the road? Puh-leeze.
Maybe they got worn down? Tired? Pregnant? Developed health issues? Stress issues? Hell, I dunno. I'm not in their heads. I do know, however, that for most people major decisions aren't based on a single event or issue. In fact, I don't remember saying they were.
Grebe's point (which I share) is that fair game is recognizable -- or should be. Yeah, not all fair game is equivalent in type or magnitude. But it's still fair game.
If you had actually been following Mark "Marty" Rathbun's blogging since the beginning of the SquirrelBusters siege, you would know he was anything but "fine" with it. I mean, he got jailed on a trumped up assault charge when he got in the face of one of the SQB's for their repeated stalking and harrassment of his wife Mosey ( https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/09/17/ ), FFS!
Michael A. Hobson
"Who know all the secrets"...
Channeling Lill' Miscavige?
^^This. Excellent post is excellent. But I also reckon Marty's "ulterior motives" run a bit deeper than what was expressed there. Keeping in mind the obvious fact that his crusade against Miscavige is both a hyped up PR campaign of spinning bigger & more damaging propaganda than the mother church does, plus it is truly a war of attrition - he is wearing out their resources.
FWIW I think it is that war attrition aspect that weighs heavy in his ulterior motives in this latest your-hero-wont-be-victimized spin. As well as the earning potential others have mentioned. But nonetheless, in his war of attrition there is a BIG advantage to be garnered here: the true pro PIs have left the game. As reported by TonyO + Childs & Tobin, it was the former cops turned cultie PIs that laid out the initial surveillance plan in Ingleside. Then Lebow and his doofus OT lackies took over the execution of that game plan and have now hired other local PIs to help them keep their stoopid in check.
Those new local PIs are locked into a 3year lease and obviously have some sort of agreement or contract that currently drains funding and will likely do so for a short while. So when Marty bounces to a new locale, more monies need spent for the Fair Gaming, Surveillance & Dead Agenting efforts to get re-entrenched. Ca$h hemorrhage, KA-Ching.
Double bonus -- a more secluded location that offers better odds of newly out peeps to come for auditing increases Marty's marketability. It's a proven trend that many people who leave the mother church do so slowly, in baby steps, and need to take big precautions to get their family/friends/businesses unattached from the dependencies of the closed circle the cult wraps their dedicated adherents in. So in terms of Marty's earning potential, that represents a significant faction of people who will not go to see him in Ingleside for auditing (even though they want too) due to the risk of exposure factor.
By reducing that risk of exposure for his new, not-fully-outed, clients - KA-Ching! More money for Marty's base of operation.
Economics is a bitch when it is used to play dirty. And that's what I see happening here, all wrapped up with a big fat propaganda bow and spun for his flock so that *some* of his true ulterior motives aren't obvious to his lemmings.
One more comment then I really have to take a break.
I have circumstantial evidences that someone is keeping tabs on me. I wish I could share details but then I'd out myself. I've had some vaguely menacing comments directed my way from people on the Internet, but nothing specific. So I might just be crazy. But some stuff is hard to explain. Anyway, these experiences have taught me one thing I never knew before: surveillance is a fucking assault.
If we make a rule against Fair Game but don't respect the rule when the target is someone we don't like, we will build a pro-fair game society.
tl;dr: It's not Marty but me and all the little African shrews of this world I worry about most.
He's working on a big payoff with Ray Jeffrey:
It's still fair gaming, and it's still wrong.
It's a good bet Rathbun is already earning finders / consulting fees from Jeffrey. Doesn't bother me. More lulz and pays for caek.
Just to clarify, Marty is Ray Jeffrey's client. They will sue Scientology to try and get a big payoff from them like the PI's did.
What fair game? Because MARTY SAYS there are a bunch of Deliverance looking dudes with a Confederate Flag on their bumper staring at him while they fish for nothing and then park their asses by the tinted windows staring at him all day?
Sounds pretty gruesome. So OK, we get one cropped photo of a Confederate flag. Where are the all the other pics or vids? The Deliverance group shot at the house or on the boat would be a great shot. He did it with the Squirrel Busters all the time with videos posted as proof - so how come NOTHING but words now?
Also, if the windows are tinted, how does he know they are sitting there? Oh, yeah, I guess it's because Marty says so.
I mean come on, if there are in fact potential racial or hate crimes ready to pop, Marty should have TONS of evidence, if only to document it to show the police just in case.
Grebe, I agree with you that fair game sucks and we should be against it. But I'm also not going to believe his stories with no dox, especially when he had provided it countless times in similar scenarios in the past. There are just too many holes in his story - and so I smell a RAT(hbun).
Hey Grebe, just wanted to say that I do agree with you here (and have said the exact same thing in the past, during the Squibs' antics.)
There are only two possible reasons for keeping someone under prolonged surveillance - either you are LE, legitimately seeking to catch major criminals in the act, or you are stalking.
I am still outraged that this can be done to anyone without legal consequences. It outrages me that CoS can have someone watched for 20-odd years then escape any sanctions by paying money to the hired operatives who carried out their spy activities, who can then claim that their agreement precludes them saying anything.
Private citizens pay their taxes and are entitled to the protection of the law against powerful corporations who seek to harm them. Whatever Marty might say are his reasons for leaving, the fact that he has been stalked for this length of time is simply not acceptable.
If I were to condone such outrageous behaviour because it's Marty, I don't think I'd have anything much left to say about anything CoS does.
The law really needs to make an example of the CoS and pursue them for each and every instance of Fair Game.
Yeah, I'm pointing out a few inconvenient truths so I must be working for Miscavige. As your guru says " . . . there are OSA operatives throughout the Anonymous network, ESMB site, the Freezone and Independents running backstabbing, covert propaganda campaigns while we are “tied up” under siege . . . " so I guess that must be true for you.
Back in the real world, take a look at who's running the InDependents:
Marty - number two in the cult and chief enforcer
Rinder - head of OSA
Laws - RTC thug set loose on David Mayo and Robin Scott
Hall - head of cult PR for ten years
. . . the list goes on. Has Marty told us what's in the IRS agreement, has Rinder told us who his OSA operatives were and the names of the PIs and lawyers, what about the names of the two LMT OSA plants, has Laws told us about the crimes involved in bringing down the Ability Center, has Hall told us about the lies he managed to get published and the names of the media friendlies? Just those four could provide evidence of the fact that Scientology is an on-going conspiracy - and there's no statue of limitations on conspiracy.
Long time continuous fair gaming of Rathbun has been very well documented in the past. It's really not much of a stretch to assume it is still going on.
No one here, as far as I can tell, is condoning Scientology's fair gaming of Marty - and yeah, that grey area between what's lawful and what's illegal when it comes to private investigators is unjust. Even the po-po can't keep doing what Scentology's PIs are doing indefinitely . . . not so sure about homeland security but isn't there some sort of time limit on how long surveillance can be kept and/or a stipulation about not "going fishing".
Of course, fair game in all its guises is unacceptable. I guess the InDependents quite like it for media interest and sympathy value. Compared to, say, Paulette Cooper, Marty's version of fair game is a little tickle. If David Miscavige wanted Marty eliminated without sorrow it would be game over by now. As it is, all he's doing is making OSA look silly and ineffective . . . I wonder why?
Ahhh . . . most excellent. Confirmation I'm onto something. Poor ole Scientologists can't help themselves but attack the messenger in various ways but always leading with the idea that speakers of truth about Scientology are mentally impaired. Thanks. I don't feel so bad about that Mosey thread now that I know what's what.
That's the point. Marty and anyone supporting him is relying on assumption.
But there's no dox. And Marty HAS provided dox on similar things in the past, i.e., the Squirrel Busters. Why not this time on something that Marty is portraying as a much more serious and real threat?
Anonymous rule has forever been dox or gtfo. Anyone can claim anything otherwise. And without any dox provided, the rule should be a big gtfo to Marty's story. Why it's all different just because it's Marty...I dunno, maybe his followers' psyops powers are better than I thought.
Yes, it is wrong. But does it provide a waiver for DOX or GTFO?
Gee, it's all a Marty scam. Marty and his peeps came up with rent money for the adjoining residences, applied reflective paper to all the windows, rented cars, dressed up like PIs, raced through the neighborhood, pulled the wool over the eyes of reporters and editors from the Corpus Christi Caller, Tampa Bay Times and Tony Ortega. Shit!
Who's suggesting that there be a rule against fair game?
Be careful out there. Jesse Prince once told the Magoo that if you are on the Scientology radar and think something odd or strange is going on, its OSA. These days, though, one can't be too sure if its Cult OSA or InDependent OSA.
Shit! The epiphanies just keep rolling. Indie Scientology OSA has been funded by Marty's peeps, and ISOSA is now stalking Grebe. Shit!
Trying too hard, dude. Report back to Marty that you failed.
Yes. I'm OSA. And an Indie. Extra spechul Indie-OSA in fact.
Sorry mate, never been in. I'm just not convinced of the "it's all a great conspiracy" kind of thinking, since I 1) don't think neither OSA nor the Indies are even capable of running such a scheme, and 2) the cult (any flavour) is leaking like a sieve these days and we'd know about it.
When you return with the dox to prove it's all a big conspiracy to let Marty take over, beer's on me.
Gee, I thought my point was much more obvious than that. Although I have no contact with Marthy and am not an Indy / Indie (how DO you spell that word?), I'm betting the Indies can't buy toilet paper, much less fund an ISOSA. If you want to make up shit, make up better shit than that.
Exactly. And for dox, I saw pics of the cameras through the windows of that house, before the reflective material was installed. I don't think that reflective stuff is merely the latest fashion in home decor.
Yes. Which is why I'm responding to the evidence I can see: which is the fair gaming that is going on.
David Miscavige must be apoplectic by now. I wonder if Macallan's has noticed an uptick in sales this year, or maybe he's getting a bulk discount by now.
People escaping from Scientology need professional help, not more Scientology.
Marty Rathbun & Mike Rinder were in the employment of organized crime as in Scientology. Now they are/have been publicly trying to leave the game and make a profit out of it at the same time.
How many people has Scientology killed, Lisa McPherson anyone. Yet all of these former OSA aka Organized Crime figures leave and never tell the whole tale the feds would love to hear what Marty & Mike know, but they won't tell.
So who cares what happens to him yes Marty is a useful tool to get people out maybe that's true to a point. But who cares what happens to him or anyone who is around him if something goes down they are just collateral damage.
The indie movement in recent weeks started to take on a more authoritarian type of stance just like Scientology. Marty never left Scientology neither did Mike Rinder who sits quietly on the sideline waiting to jump in at the right moment.
So just let the scumbag former scientology Enforcer move then sit back and watch what happens, just let it go.
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