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Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 2009

Discussion in 'Education, Research and Inside Reports' started by _You_, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. _You_ Member

    Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 2009

    Not sure what to make of this.

    I went to see the latest info on Fort Harrison at the Pinellas County Property Appraiser's Office, and saw that the Fort Harrison was appraised much lower in 2009 relative to 2008: $7.7M vs. $16.7M. Historically, one would have to go to before 1987 to find an appraisal around $7.7M.

    The Appraiser's Office define the value as follow:

    Was the real estate crash that bad down there in Clearwater? Also, didn't the Fort Harrison just completed expensive renovation in 2009 ($40M we are told)?

    Scientology church gives Clearwater's Fort Harrison Hotel a $40M makeover - St. Petersburg Times

    WTH?
  2. RightOn Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    yes they did do a 40 mil renovation.

    But I am not sure a 40 mil rennovation would even bring the value up to 16 mil in this market?
  3. _You_ Member

  4. mirele Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    From having worked in commercial real estate, I can tell you that getting an accurate appraisal of the Fort Harrison property would be extremely difficult under even the best of circumstances. That's because the FH is neither fish nor fowl. It's not merely a hotel or a religious retreat center, it's both. And finding comparable properties would be nearly impossible.

    If the FH were to go up for sale tomorrow, how would you value it? You have to take into account the age of the building, its location and condition. Then you'd have to look at the surrounding area and what you intend to put the building to use for. How much renovation of the building would be required to get it up to the use that you intend to put it to? What about its location on Florida's Gulf Coast? It's not on the beach but it has the liability of being in a beachfront city, what with the insane insurance premiums for hurricanes. This doesn't even take into consideration anything regarding Scientology, such as What about that unfinished Stupor Power building across the street? (That's a sure drag on values.)

    I remember, back in the day (a decade ago now), sometimes the appraisals we got were a real crapshoot. You knew the comparables weren't really all that comparable, but that's what was required.

    I think the current appraisal is probably pretty close to accurate, taking into account the extremely depressed values in Florida as a whole, as well as the fact that we're talking about an organization whose presence in CW has basically sucked the life out of the community. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the building isn't worth that much, but the land is/might be worth more than the building.
  5. Anon123456 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    40 mil? what did they gold plate the inside? or did they somehow launder it through contractors? thats a shit ton of money to blow on a 16 mil building.
  6. greebly Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    It's good to see such a low value considering the amount of cash that has allegedly been pumped into it.

    If they have borrowings secured against this asset then i'm sure the lenders would like to know, or depending on the structure of debt they may have to inform them or action would be taken.

    Nice work btw more info needed.
  7. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    I see what you mean, but then the question become how come it was appraised in a relatively stable way prior to 2009 and keeping in mind they reportedly spent $40M on renos:

    2009 7,700,000
    2008 16,732,800
    2006 15,704,900
    2003 13,137,700
    2000 12,481,100
    1993 10,061,500
    1991 9,355,600
    1987 9,530,000

    I'm starting to wonder if they the $40M went toward removing the non-existing basement -- quite a feat, which would command such a bill...
  8. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Gold plates? Hmm, maybe... I picture gold plated walls, which gold plates can be easily detached and brought on travel, like to Bulgravia.
  9. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Interesting.
  10. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Costs a lot of money to renovate an old building like Ft. Harrison. Everything had to be brought up to '05 code. People told us that it was falling down and in real bad shape.

    Someone with real estate brains would have to answer this question. If one building is renovated and relies on it's ac and heat from a chiller plant designed to supply to two separate buildings would that lower the worth of either building?
  11. SomeRandGuy Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    No way they dropped 40M and it's worth 7M. They either didn't spend that amount, they got screwed over, or most of the 40M 'went elsewhere'. I'll guess the latter.
  12. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    New county appraiser?
  13. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    bump
  14. Anon123456 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    hmmm that would explain it somewhat, but where did the 40 mil go? is it even possible to put 40 mil in a building and be appraised at 7? i would think, unless a sewer is running through the lobby it should be worth more. 40 mil farce?
  15. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    They lie about everything. Oh noez, we just spent 40 million dollars renovatin and scrubbing thetans out of teh carpets so we needz moar monies nao!! We haz to clear teh planet!! For that kind of money they could have nuked the place and started over from scratch.

    Once the corporation has collapsed and the feds have moved in to clean up whats left of the mess that was Scientology, $7.7 million seems like a reasonably fair opening bid as the properties are auctioned off in order to take care of the lienholders, although the spectre of it's recent past is likely to keep most serious bidders sitting on their hands. Maybe they'll try and sweeten the deal by tossing in the Superpowers building.

    The package could make for a decent little casino. Does anyone have a phone number for the Seminoles?
  16. Herro Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Global economic recession and housing market collapse mean anything to you guys?
  17. amaX Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    I guess another thing that would be factored into the worth of the building is that there have been other businesses that have closed down. Stein Mart being the largest. Nothing else to draw anyone downtown except the cult, the court house and protest/raid days.

    Maybe the fact that the cult got their wish and beach traffic was re-routed from downtown factors into the appraisal?

    I'm just throwing stuff out here.
  18. greebly Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Hi there!

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XZMC1M9o04"]YouTube- The Mr. Obvious Show - The Critter[/nomedia]
  19. Anon123456 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    the building was

    16 mil

    +

    40 mil

    = 7 mil

    does not compute, even with the recession.
  20. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Indeed
  21. Anon123456 Member

  22. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Maybe public Scientologists would like to hear more news of how well COB is managing their donations.
    Successfully parlaying 16 million in property and 40 million in donations to reap a net of 7.7 million dollars is no small feat.
  23. incog712 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    That sucks. I'd heard that Stein Mart was at risk of closing down but I didn't know that they had. What's happening with the property? Is there any chance that the city could take it over before scientology is able to get ahold of it?

    Inb4cityofclearwaternypa
  24. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Man must be nice to get your tax assessment lowered by that much.

    The people of pinellas county should be up in arms that the cult is not contributing it's fair share.

    I mean how many people have had their property assessments lowered by 50% from sale price (specially with documented improvements?).

    How many business owners. AMA2 get on it!
  25. RightOn Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Factor in that a lot of their labor was the Sea Orgers slave labor. They did alot of the work work too.
  26. incog712 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    I think we've gotten off on the wrong foot regarding the $40,000.000 renovation. Trufax, the Ft. Homicide was renovated but it was more of a facelift than anything else. Even at scinospeed it was done within about a years time. No way that was 40 mil.

    The St. Pete Times link covers the standard pr on other properties including the $40,000,000 stuporpowersz building, but the article was written long before the Ft. Homicide fix-r-up took place.
  27. Anon123456 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    so as i suspected the 40 mil wasnt spent it was just talked about by the explosively expanding cult. i was waiting for someone less drunk to read that article.
  28. Optimisticate Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Some of these questions are questions the St. Pete Times could be asking.

    Just saying...

    Also, what street # is being used in search? I used 503 and it's coming up as 5.1 million, or is that Flag?
  29. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Another lost occasion to think before posting.
  30. Anonydon Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Actually there was a fair amount of faux guilding and plating that was on the ceilings and columns. There was a ton of SO labor on site running until midnight most nights. The fun part was that ALL the SO labor were placed in positions they had no experience in and no business being anywhere on that site. There $40M stated is what the price they WOULD have paid had they not had their own labor force and mill right there. There is very little of the true luxury items they tout about the place. It is mostly fakes, knockoffs, and A SHITLOAD of fake materials made to LOOK genuine. Getting paid from them was a nightmare and I refused to go back on the Superpowderpuff building because of the outlandish terms they have bad economy or no. Not to mention that almost all the assets at Gold have been utilized as well as Flag to supply labor and materials then ship it to that building as well. They spent nowhere near $40 M solid.

    picture041p.th.jpg

    picture067.th.jpg

    picture145bk.th.jpg
  31. Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    If they pay property taxes, the lower the appraisal is, the better, methinks they may have courted such a low appraisal.

    Of course, they have helped kill Clearwater downtown real estate, recession or not by their overwhelming creepy cult presence. I believe that to be a very low assessment by the City of Clearwater and that all of the improvements were conveniently overlooked for tax purposes. (Political influence, anyone?)

    The city or town assesment is for tax purposes, the actual real estate value would be a lot higher and if they were to refinance the property they would arrange for a market appraisal which can be much more.

    The actual value is determined by other factors, improvements, similar recent sales, etc., not the local assessment which would not even be used in the market appraisal.
  32. Optimisticate Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Is the $40m worth of work so shoddy it devalued the building that much in addition to the economy going down the crapper?
  33. amaX Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    Oh, goody. I finally have something to do. Thanks, Skeppy!



    .
  34. incog712 Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    If by "503" you mean 503 Cleveland St., that's the old Bank of Clearwater Bldg. It's one of their major downtown buildings. It sits catercorner from the Ft. Homicide Hotel which is at 215 S. Ft. Harrison. The Stuperpowersz Bldg. is across Ft. Harrison St. from there, at 210 S. Ft. Harrison.


    And speaking of that, does anybody know what the story was on the arson that burned down the old Gray Moss Inn, paving the way for Stuporpowersz? Was there ever anything .... "unresolved" about that case?

    I'm not tinfoiling here, just curious.
  35. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    fapping.jpg
  36. greebly Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    awesome picture ^^^^^^^^^
  37. Herro Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    You really miss having Kerd around don't you? And no, I'm not joKing.
  38. _You_ Member

  39. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    OK, so give us an explanation for the figures we have that would follow your logic; no need to go into too much details. I cannot wait to see this, but I doubt I will.
  40. _You_ Member

    Re: Market value of Fort Harrison downgraded from $16.7M to $7.7M between 2008 and 20

    My search via the name of the organization shows no less than 18 parcels. Can you please give the exact address of the Fort H.?

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