Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Safe, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Safe you are the one that said Mrinder was lowtown in handling the PI's and the 7 people ambushing him. You are the one who believes you can sit down with miscavige and have a conversation and he will see the light if you handle it with Scientology.

    You dished on Rathbun and Mike Rinder not aplying Scientology properly. Being to lowtone in their handling of the COS and DM

    And now you come here going all Boo Hoo. All the Anons Happy and love bombing you.

    Safe didn't "wake up". He just couldn't get his "brand"of Scientology through on Rathbuns blog.

    I find that a bit Hypocritical.
  2. Consensus Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    This is actually incredibly astute.

    Though I think most people underestimate the value of 'good moderators'; or rather, they under-estimate the harm caused by bad moderators.

    Y'know. In the grand scheme of things.
  3. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    [STRIKE]Who knows safe?[/STRIKE]

    Decided to actually read the thread.

    Safe, what made you come here? A recommendation?, a feeling? That would be interesting to know.
  4. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Welcome to WWP Safe hope you find your stay here stimulating and an aid to your journey of self discovery.

    With respect to being able to calmly talk to the diminutive David Miscavige as Kittykatspanker says that's a little naive; not saying the mighty midget definitely can not be reformed but you cannot reach people who do not want to be reached without some kind of coercion - doesn't have to be physical but getting him to sit down and stop being a pompous prick could be difficult. He'd have to have a reason to listen and then have a reason to not promising everything just to get out of there and reneging later.

    Part of the problem is that in order to put things right you'd have to take away many of the things he's comfortable with and enjoys like physical and mental abuse of others; he does that purely to satisfy himself and he really does enjoy it, it's his heroin only as with many drugs he needs more and more as time goes on to get his satisfaction.

    Over all though there is the issue of "justice". Many people believe that he doesn't deserve to continue in his role in any form because of his many past deeds, there has to be some kind of retribution for his past misdeeds. This precludes any attempts to calmly talk to David "poodle" Miscavige.

    One could argue that David Miscavige is a victim of scientology and in a way he is but only in so much as it facilitated, promoted even, his worst attributes and tendencies; another person in the same situation might have been quite benign.
  5. Krautfag Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Yo Wayne, welcome. Yo, Kitty.

    Stop importing drama, both of ya. KKTHX.

    Safe, Marty's prime target is saving "teh tech"(tm) as given out by dead Elron, he won't have stuff derailing from that on his playground. It's no big use decrying a 100% believer for his belief, won't get you anywhere. Just let go and enjoy the party (and insults) here :)
  6. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    So true. It's like they're a clone personality.

    I was disgusted by Mike Rinder's "handling" too. But Marty was so proud it, along with other scios following along praising it. One scio even noted how "professional" Mike Rinder was at handling the PI's. I'm like, WTF? How can he possibly believe that?

    So when I objected to the rudeness of Rinder saying, "What are you, a pussy?", Marty and a bunch of scios came rushing to the "rescue" justifying the vulgar behavior, and criticizing me for suggesting diplomatic conversation.

    Rinder totally missed an opportunity to take the invitation of David Labau to sit down and talk. Instead, he was so wrapped up in attack mode, apparently it never dawned on him that maybe some peaceful conversation could be more effective.

    It's as if Marty and Mike are constantly in the rabid "attack dog" mode. That must really be a miserable way to life your life. I "thank" the "Always attack, never defend" policy of CofS (Hubbard) for that.
  7. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Oh my God. You're so funny. You are so mixed up and confused, and for some reason, obviously upset.

    I said I was willing to TRY to talk to DM using nonviolent communication methods, not using name-brand Scientology. I didn't say I could make DM see "the light". That would be absurd. That's up to him.

    If I were you, I'd take another look at what I said through eyes that are not angry. I believe your confusion and thinking will be a little more clear.

    As far as hypocrisy goes, don't you think Marty is being hypocritical to the scientology creed by his censorship on his blog, worse, censoring fellow scientologists? Or do you feel his censorship (hypocrisy) is ok?
  8. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Good question. The answer is simple. Censorship by Marty on his blog.

    I wanted a place to post where there was truly free speech, and post my opinions without getting stupid, lameass protectionist replies to comfort and stroke Marty's huge Ego, and to have a place where rational debate wasn't taboo. (At least I assume rational debate is OK here. ha!)
  9. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I just said I'd be willing to talk to him. I wasn't guaranteeing any results. But I'd try to reach into his soul, if he still has any remnant of it left.

    The truth is, a bunch of the top executives in CofS need to get together, balls up, and storm into David Miscavage's office and tell him, "That's it! You're DONE!", and escort him out.
  10. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    At some stage, I would hear about where so-called FZ or independents groups set the limit about which part of LRH's work is OK and which is not. It would be a good starting point, IMHO.
  11. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I am definitely enjoying the true Freedom of Speech here. On Marty's blog, I was constantly in a somewhat nervous state wondering whether or not Marty would post my next heretical post. Of course, that's BULLSHIT. If Marty wants to try and save scientology, he should first try honoring and applying the creed which calls for free speech, and stop censoring. He's not even following scientology.

    I like the fact that there are no domination culteral demands here. And if there are any that I don't know about that I'm "supposed" to comply with, I'll just go take a hike somewhere else once again. Cause I'm fed up with domination.
  12. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I'll take a stab at it. Perhaps, these are four good starting points, but just starting points:

    1) Do no harm. Throw out anything that harms and abuses.

    2) Respect and apply Free Speech. Transparency.

    3) Get rid of the religiosity of Scientology. It is not a religion. As Larry Brennan? says, religious cloaking was used. That was a HUGE mistake. No more "church."

    4) Make scientology open source. If it truly is a science of knowing how to know, as it is defined, then that's how it should be treated. It should be free for anybody to use and to futher develop. End copyrights and trademarks.
  13. Krautfag Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty, you gotta grow a lil' more skin if you're in for the long ride here.

    See, I can demand, swear and beg to stop x-board drama, but I got no means to make you stop (only the loons can, we mark their names in red here), that's the culture. On the other hand you will have to put up with my demanding, swearing and begging and indecent people farting in your general direction for bringing drama.

    And the whole matter of "importing drama"'s not "verboten" but meh, it just distracts from more important issues and I personally find it annoying as shit.
  14. Krautfag Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    You will find a lot of anons sympathetic to these notions. Ofc some of us want to get rid of the tech too.
  15. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    That's fine. Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant by domination. That is, somebody depriving another of their ability to do something if they don't comply to their demands. So if a moderator told me, "You can't say this cause I don't like what you say", I'd just go somewhere else to say it.

    That's why I'm here now. Marty dominated me by using force on me (censoring me) because he didn't like my opinions.
  16. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty


    I'd be happy just to get rid of the word "scientology" altogether. I'm don't worship the word, for sure.

    I do like the idea of a "science of knowing how to know" if there truly is such a science. So I don't want to abandon any real helpful technology in that area. Of course, the requirement is that it has to be truly verifiable, helpful technology.

    Any true science should be open to scientific validation. I would like that.
  17. Krautfag Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I'll promise you, you'll eventually run into one of those mods. We all do ^^ (see house rules btw
    When you do it often enough, you get to visit a place full of interesting people. And music.
  18. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Thanks. And when did all this happen?. Have you come to this site before?, or how much did you know about anonymous before then?
  19. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Does this mean we have to start our own Blog: ?
  20. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Good questions.

    I found out about anonymous several months back through youtube video anon protests. Back when I was still a Mad Marty Worshiping Minion, I decided to come on this forum to "defend" Marty. (Yes, I know. Nobody has to tell me now.)

    Of course, that didn't work out too well. I was pummelled and went away like a hurt dog. I couldn't figure out what was "wrong" with the people here. I was naive. There is an old thread somewhere on this board with me posting. That is the old me. That isn't the me now.

    After enough experience on Marty's blog with his censorship, I realized he was controlling and abusive too, not as dramatic as CofS, but he had the same angry, hostile, and vengeful attitude as the CofS. I've noted this with many scientologists who have left CofS, too. Sad.

    Also, I found out about clinical psychologist Dr. Rosenberg, and his works helped me see some things which I didn't before, and changed my mindset.

    Perhaps I was driving some scientologists totally mad, because many obsessively hate "psychs", and Dr. Rosenberg is one, and then to say that he helped me? And then to be so audacious as to mention his book, "Nonviolent Communication"? Oh dear, the heresy of it all! Lambaste the heretic! ... was the call. So I didn't win any popularity contests on Marty's blog.
  21. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty


    (Is that Meme acceptable protocol here? :rolleyes:)
  22. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Gidday Safe.

    I'm working on a theory that DM is actually the last, true Scientologist. Nothing he has done runs counter to the alpha-policy, specifically, KSW, and/or which is not in accordance with the example set by LRH. In fact, DM is the near perfect end-product of Scientology.
  23. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Howdy. Yes, David Miscavage is a perfect name-brand Scientologist®
  24. Krautfag Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    For everyone's reading pleasure, the thread is here:

    And, wee, 'twas a fine pummeling. Ouchie :)
  25. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Here's another perennial of mine: given that the brand name "Scientology" is just so filthy, wouldn't it be better for those who see value in the product to re-brand? Perhaps call themselves Hubbardians or Knowledge Knowers or whatever, just something that better suits what they are preaching. I know this would be a hugely difficult thing to do but I think the main resistance to such a thing is emotional rather than logical. There is just so much tied up in the word that - it seems to me - people cannot separate themselves from it mentally. If the knowledge works and if it brings goodness into the world, what does it matter what it is called?
  26. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I aplaud you for that. I am Glad you are out and not worshipping anyone. I really like you.

    However that non-violent communication thing does not work when you are Ambushed by either 7 screaming people or is not valid having yourself swarmed by PIs.

    Actually I think Rinder was well behaved
  27. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    How do you figur that ? He slapped a preclear as an auditor when he was 12/13. He is stuck somewhere on OTV I believe. And doesn't get auditing (not wanting it of course) a little after the IRS "win".

    Not even an OT8 whatever that may be.
  28. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Right Safe,
    So you came here originally because you saw some anon youtube videos and while here, you came across a thread and decided to put some posts in? How much did you read here before deciding to register? Did you lurk a few days or was it like instant? And also how long did you lurk here before posting this time. I am interested because i just want to know the mind set of a person who is a sci and why and how they approach this site,
  29. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    L Ron Hubbard imprisoned children in ship chain lockers and hardly did any auditing himself. Also, consider the Scientology fable about the cannibal - although in DM's case the better subject would be a psychopath - auditing won't change the psychopath from being a psychopath, auditing will only make a psychopath better at being a psychopath. Check out the Phil Spickler videos over on EXSCN. Spickler says the same things about prostitutes and gangsters.
  30. gizmogirl Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    You have mentioned Dr. Rosenberg repeatedly in your posts. I am glad that his book helped you but I worry that having walked away from Marty you are replacing him with another authority figure. Having an "authority" seems to be a need (at least for a while) for Scientologists as they deprogram. I would watch for that, and keep reading all sorts of books on recovering from being in a cult, then make up your OWN mind. In the end, you have to be your own authority.
  31. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Yes he did that imprisson children that sick man. The Solo Nots were develloped by Mayo auditing and running processes on Hubbards Case after his sick bed in 1978. Lots of auditing of the Hubbard entity.

    Hubbard is more a "munchausen" with a touch of shizophrenia and DM more of a "physical" Psychopath.

    And don't dish on prostitutes some Anons are too. A cleared canibal is still a cleared canibal.

    meaning you don't have to dish a peoples whole culture just because you do not understand it

    He was not talking about the Hanibal Lectors of this world. But some of those Nature Tribes like those on Papua New Guinea. You will find that even social groups that practice canibalism have morals be it not western.

    Spickler talks about the auditor code in a way confession in the Catholic Church is set up.
  32. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Who's dissing on prostitutes - Spickler, if anyone - not me.

    But, to get back to my point - DM is a perfect Scientologist. The Martyland show is all about drawing an imaginary line between DM and Hubbard when, in fact, DM is behaving just as Hubbard did. Some of the specifics are different, but the nature of the actions are identical and in complete accordance with Scientology policy and practises.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Have you considered studying epistemology?
  34. RightOn Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    hey Safe!
    welcome! Glad you are here.

    I left this comment 8 hours ago ^^^

    After reading through the thread, I feel you may have another agenda.
    And one of the things on your agenda is making sure you are heard and often.
    Unless you change your ways.... I take back my welcome.

    I looked on Marty's blog and saw walls of text written by you with tons of sci speak and sci ideals. I find it hard to believe that you are out completely as you stated.
    My trust level has gone way down after reading some of your entries on Marty's blog. sorry
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    The word you are looking for is Epistemology

  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Doncha hate it when google reveals what country you're posting from ;)
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    What a fucking hugbox of a thread. It's embarrassing.


    I was gonna say something like this. Safe, you reek (so far) of needing a 'thought leader' - I suggest you focus on applying your philosophy, rather than spouting where you got it from. First time is interesting, fourth time was well boring, and by the end I wanted to shove the book you love so much into whichever of your orifices was nearest.

    I hate much more that some other faggot posted my thought while I was still working through page 2.
  38. OTBT Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Safe, it really is good to have you here. Looks like you have wised up far more than most indies.

    It took me about 4 or 5 years to realize that scientology of any flavor is bullshit and dangerous. Your opinions will be different than mine. Which is not a problem at all.

    My suggestions for this particular forum: freely post your opinions, back up any claims with verifiable facts (such as links to documents). Go ahead, stand your ground unless proven wrong. It helps to be willing to look at and consider a multitude of viewpoints, not just the ones you agree with.

    My biggest beef is with the organized "church of scientology" not really with freezoners. As an ex, I generally have difficulty dealing with FZers who still believe in "the tech".

    But this anonymous fight is about dismantling scientology in its current form. Even though I think the beliefs are ludicrous and dangerous, going after scilon beliefs and dogma is usually a wrong detour. Better to stay focused on verifiable crimes and abuses of organized scientology. You already know these are.

    Personally, I think M&M and freezone factions will pretty much fall apart once CofS is dismantled. Freezone needs the Miscavige boogeyman to fight against just like CofS needs the psych boogeyman to fight against. All cults need an immediate threat to rally the troops and justify fund extraction from their members.

    Anyway, just my opinions, feel free to call me idiot or agree or disagree or whatever you want.
  39. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    As I look back, it was well "deserved' too. How freaking embarassing to look at the old me.

    Of course, a confused name-brand Scientologist or even an independent scientologist may believe that by becoming an "anon", by "joining" the "group", that I have back-slided (to borrow a Christian term) and that I'm following the "enemy line".

    What they don't understand is that I've GROWN in my thinking. I've gotten rid of (as-ised in scientology terminology) the "enemy images" thinking.

    Marty ended up suggesting this last week on his blog to his followers that I was starting to follow the "enemy lines" of OSA!

    Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. This "enemy images" thinking draws out such paranoia thinking. It's insane to me, and makes me feel sorrow for their confused plight. I understand it. I was in that plight too not long ago.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Hi Safe,

    Knowing how to know is not a science because science has not progressed far enough to have any definitive theory of how people come to know things.
    As others have pointed out, what you are looking for is epistemology , which is one of the two main branches of philosophy (the other being metaphysics).

    If you are serious in your search for knowledge, there is no easy short cut.
    Forget the feel-good self-help books and start with serious academic studies into any of the following:

    philosophy and epistemology
    philosophy of the mind
    artificial intelligence

    Here are some random questions to think about:
    • What is knowledge?
    • How do we come to know something?
    • What does it mean to say that something is true?
    • How can we tell if something is true?
    • Are we born knowing certain things, if so what?
    • Is there anything that must be absolutely true?
    • What is logic?
    • What is thought?
    • What is reasoning?
    • Is the mind the same as the brain?
    • How does a brain give rise to consciousness?
    • What is a belief?
    • What is an emotion?
    • What is morality?
    • Can a thought be moral or immoral?

    Most of these questions have no definitive answers today. The job of philosophy is to refine these questions and to consider what some of the possible answers might look like. The job of science is to come up with answers that can be tested and perhaps rejected if disproved with evidence. Science has barely begun to scratch the surface of these types of questions, but I am optimistic that neuroscience and artificial intelligence will make progress and that in the distant future, we will be able to answer these sorts of questions almost as well as we can answer questions about basic physics.

    If you are serious about knowing, then you have to be open to the possibility that nobody today has the answers to the questions you want answered, and be able to live with this uncertainty. I can assure you that no self-help book comes anywhere near addressing these questions in any useful or serious way.

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