Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Safe, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. Bottomfeeder Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Man. U english anon's a bunch of tosser's.
  2. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Thank you for your correction. Second language and all.

    Cats and hats

  3. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Captain Obvious has arrived.

    Lurking Anons:
    Get your hip boots. It's gonna be neck deep soon.

    Your wrong. Disconnection works or the Church (and other abusive cults such as Landmark Education and the Moonies) would not use it as a tool of compliance and punishment. Disconnection works very well. Would you like to know about other compliance techniques they use?

    What could you do? Scientology is a totalitarian dictatorship. Dissension is not and was never allowed. Scientology cannot be a democracy and cannot be reformed because Hubbard based it on lies.

    No. No they are not. L. Ron Hubbard is solely responsible. He set up the organization that preys on the unsuspecting and vulnerable and allowed a sociopath to take over the "church".

    Actually it is not the Church that makes scientologist this way, but the "tech". When we say scientology destroys minds: we mean it literally. Scientologists are conditioned not to notice such things. This "not noticing" is purposeful and caused by application of the "tech". That is why scientologists appear insane when dealing in the wog world.

    Simply because you cannot. And can never. Scientology is built on lies and abuse by controlling individuals for greed and power. If you'd bring down Miscavaige, you will only prop another dictator in his place. Read Hubbard's own words. He advocated lying to obtain a goal.

    It was corrupt from the first day. L Ron Hubbard was a fraud. He routinely lied about his background to make him appear smarter than he was.

    We will not stop. The Church of Scientology will continue to ruin lives and therefore must be dismantled.
  4. Anonymous Member

  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    "SAFE" needs to word clear "Tl;dr"
  6. RightOn Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    hmmm the story about his father who tied two cats tails together and hung them from the washline?

    Someone mentioned to me that they heard that before.
    It was in a movie. Maybe the movie "Kids" circa 1995 or another movie by the same director.

    The other is this I found:

    "To relieve the boredom in barracks, soldiers would tie two cats together by their tails, hang them over a washing line and leave them to fight."

    So... either this guys father copy "catted" this horrible little prank (which was out of the 1800's) or he's being a big fibber.

    and this is my last post in this thread
    this thread is 23 pages of wasted time
    and yes..... I am guilty of posting here too
  7. LocalSP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    You're too late we've moved up in the world, we are now THE DEMON GOD OF THE INTERNET.

  8. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    We are still the Final Boss of the Internet... We just got a Character Class/Race/Breed now.
  9. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

  10. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I think Safe either missed or ignored my message of doing it right on WWP way back in this thread.
    Now he is Unsafe.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    What's up with Safe's new avatar? Did the mods do that? Creepy.
  12. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    You've been trying so, so hard, and I mean EXTREMELY FANATICALLY hard, to control me here (just like Marty was, but not so fantical about it), and you know what I always knew? That you were lying to me and others, just as I know Marty was and still is. But I could never nail you down in a lie to show you're a liar, until now.

    I just found you spinning a fraction of a quote of LRH, that you know that can be easily taken out of context to fool people. This is not only deception, but an act of lying by ommission. It's clear to me you're using it to serve your agenda of control, by twisting the truth.

    Now, let's take your little piece of quote spin, and put it in context, and it means a hell of a lot different than you're spinning it. That you lie this way tells me you're trying to control other's thinking. You are controlling people (besides me), and they have no idea you are deceiving them. If people really understood the text below, you'd be revealed as a charlatan.

    Here's the full context of what LRH said, and the real meaning becomes way, way more apparent and different than what you're misleading others to believe.

    (If you had any credibility to me before, you lost it all with your deception here. So I don't trust you now, whatsoever, because of your sneaky trickery.)

    L Ron Hubbard’s words from the audio lecture Overt Acts, Motivators and Deds (lecture #8) Technique 88 Lectures 25, June 1952 ...

    "When you speak of the creator, and you’re probably speaking of something entirely different than implanted religion. Religion is always different than truth. It has to be. Because the only way you can control a people is to lie to them. And you can write that down in your book there - in very big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them - lie to them.

    All right, now look. When you find an individual is lying to you, you know that the individual is trying to control you. You can put that down, one way or the other, this individual is trying to control you. That’s a mechanism of control. The individual is lying to you, so they’re trying to control you. Because if they give you enough misinformation, they’ll throw you far enough down the Tone Scale so they can control you.

    Conversely, if you see an impulse on the part of a human being to control you, you know very well that that human being is lying to you. Not 'is just going to' --- but 'IS lying to you.' Check up the facts, you’ll find out they’re always true. That person is trying to control you, he’s lying to you. He’s got to tell you lies, in order to continue to control, because the second you start telling anybody anything close to truth, you start releasing him, and he gets tougher and tougher to control. So you can’t control somebody, without telling them a bunch of fibs."
  13. Smurf Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

  14. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Lets review:

    Safe in Scientology . . . . . . . victimised
    Safe in hiding . . . . . . . . . . . victimised
    Safe in Martyland . . . . . . . . . victimised
    Safe in WWP . . . . . . . . . . . . victimised

    Anyone see a pattern here?

    I see also that, in addition to the usual "religious bigot", WWP is also a torturer.

    Such dedication to the Scientology Victim-Tech™ really is a thing to behold.
  15. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Were there any independent observers who reported on this event?

    If not, then you're taking this account on face value, just like you might have taken subjective accounts of Big Wins through Scientology.

    I'm not trying to be aggressive or attacking here, merely a rational skeptic. (And you really don't know if I'm angry, sad, psychotelepathic, trolling, laughing or plaid. Not unless you can prove it objectively, of course.)

    Hmm. One danger I think that former Scientologists face is that even after they have yanked Scientology out of their heads, there are deep patterns/channels/hob-nailed boot prints/etc left in their thinking. If they rush, too soon, to find something to fill the void where Scientology was, they run the risk of jamming something else into the empty space without getting themselves straight first.

    And .. how well do you think that NVC has helped you here on WWP?

    Myself, I don't think that you're using your puckish NVC epigrams to their full advantage...

    C'or! They fixed the problem with linking and embedding!
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    So I heard that LRH loved mudkips, is that true?
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    To Safe:

    If you feel a particular post is offensive, all you have to do is let one of the moderators know, they will deal with it.

  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Somehow I knew this thread would turn into this.

    ESMB might work better for you Safe, there are some ex-scilons there still wishing to hash over the LRH insanity.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I feel sorry for the guy, but I really don't see that he's being trolled. He's more troll than trolled. I see a lot of sincere posts that he can't or pretends he can't understand. What does he want? Congratulations for whining?

    FFS, arguing a point on the basis of L Ron Hubbard's authoritative words is bad enough anywhere in the world. But here?

    In conclusion, I would like to apologize to Safe on behalf of the entire world, for the grey cloud following him around. It's called Scientology.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Turn into what?
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Actually, he has not been trolled at all. I think he has blinders on his eyes. He can only see what he wants to see...and nothing else.
  23. El Diablo Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Here Safe is confusing "control" with "influence" and "persuade".

    Selective quoting may be deceptive, however this is why those of us with experience in deconstructing rhetoric (or basic skills in critical thinking) know to look at the referenced material and make up our own minds about whether what is being argued follows from the evidence. Not that difficult really.

    i.e. "Your argument is faulty because you are untrustworthy." This is ad hominem.

    LRH's argument implies that the ONLY reason one lies is to control another. It is one reason, yet it is not the only reason. People lie for many reasons:

    • To protect the feelings of someone they care about (i.e. "Nawww, your hair looks fine - If you like it, I like it!").
    • To avoid a bad outcome (i.e. "Um, I'm not sure how the vase got broken - maybe the cat knocked it over while we were out").
    • To entertain themselves with the gullibility of others (i.e. "Yeah man! It's true - There are absolutely no cats in Russia!").
    • To entertain others because they are insecure about whether people will find them uninteresting (i.e. "So, because I'm tight with supporting act I totally got to go back-stage and hang out with U2 for like ages...they were so cool...totally invited us to this after-party at the hotel whey were staying was awesome").

    ...and the list goes on.

    Human motivations are complex and reducing it to "because they're (necessarily) trying to control you", is not only erroneous, but can limit one's ability to understand the many nuances in interpersonal communications.

    Again, one can be controled with truth. Have you not heard of guilt? It's not necessarily a bad thing, since it's the little voice that says that our actions are negatively impacting another and we should feel a pang of guilt over it.

    We may be told by a parent "Well, I work full-time AND drive everyone around, and cook and clean and shop - I don't think it's too much to expect you to do the dishes onces in a while." This is no lie. They genuinely feel this way and need you to pull your weight in the household - yet in a way it's an effort to control behavior - i.e. get you to do the dishes and not complain about it.

    There are more implicit forms of control that we are are quite happy to cohere to as well - for example, traffic lights. We allow ourselves to be controled by little red, green and amber lights because if we did not, the roads would be an extremely dangerous place.

    Likewise "speed kills" campaigns which are straight-forward and true statistics about how exceding the speed limit by even a small amount (say 5kms/hour) reduces safe breaking distance, increases impact velocity and hence the likelyhood of serious injury/fatalities. This is no lie. It is true and designed to control the behavior of motorists in the interest of public safety.

    * * *

    So in summary, by looking at the primary source material we can see that LRH's arguments are full of holes. He argues that "lies" NECESSARILY indicate an attempt to control another. Similarly that attempts to control others NECESSARILY require that one lies. While such conditions are possible, they are not necessary, hence this argument is invalid - and adopting the same view as LRH leaves one vulnerable to the same argumentative pit-falls.

    Furthermore it highlights the importance of looking carefully at primary sources, because when you do, you may discover a whole new level of LRH argumentative fail that selective quoting belies. This is not only hilarious, but a great workout for the brain! Also it is an effective way of subverting the persuasive intentions of those crying foul on "out of context quotes".

  24. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Excellent logical and rational debate. I think this is the first time I've really seen well thought out and significantly helpful content in any of the replies on this thread that didn't seem like it resulted in a form of personal attack, versus sticking to debating of point on an opinion. I'm impressed. Thank you. I truly apologize for getting upset at you earlier.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Are you able to give me a response to my above post?

    You might be surprised at how helpful some of the 'troll' posts may be.
  26. El Diablo Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I accept your apology and offer my own for my general abruptness (which can be my way at times). I have been in two minds about how to interract with you and that can manifest itself in my harsh tone.

    I am glad you have taken my post in the spirit in which it was intended - and that in retrospect you will recognize that some personal attacks are more a matter of perception than malicious intent. In either case, even if someone is personally attacking you, by focusing on that one tends to invite more of the same upon themselves. I say this as someone who was a long-time observer before ever participating here - and wishes you to avoid the same problems my rather fiery personality initially caused me. Even moreso because you're an ex, and you've undoubtedly had more than your fair share of poo already.

    Anyway, I hope you find a way to be at ease her on WWP - to take it for what it is - use it as a great resourse, filled with many insightful and dedicated people (a great deal of whom have NO personal experiences with the CoS, but are simply morally compelled to take action).

    Sometimes people will be mean, sometimes people will appear mean (even if they do not intend to be)...sometimes they will babble crap and irritate the heck out of you...but it's worth letting that roll on past so that you don't miss the good parts.

    I honestly welcome you (back) to WWP and hope to engage in many more meaty debates with you. :)
  27. BLiP Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Get a room you two.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

  29. El Diablo Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Lol. :p
  30. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    No. I don't think he'd want to get a room with me.

  31. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I'm not sure who you mean by "you", but I see nobody trying to control you. Many are asking you to play by our societal norms by being respectful, not reading emotion into the written word and not playing the victim. You speak of a lie, but do not realize it isn't a lie of omission. L. Ron Hubbard lied about a great many things and I truly believed that he believed the lies he told. Obviously since you are still under control of scientology, you are not going to read Bare-Faced Messiah, but just a short scan of an objective look at L. Ron Hubbard's life reveals that lying about events and accomplishments were very common. L. Ron Hubbard's life matches up with other charlatans and tricksters as outlined in the book: Feet of Clay. Pick up a copy. It says nothing about Scientology, but the comparisons to the claims and behaviors of these self proclaimed gurus is shocking.

    Luckily Scientology uses no deception and adds materials and changes its viewpoint to fit new data.[/sarcasm] Just look at fair game and disconnection. They're part of Sceintology and cannot be removed without bringing up major questions about L Ron Hubbard who personally set them up. And what about Xenu? (and you can't tell us you haven't heard of the Xenu story and not be lying having been outside the cult for so many years). Do you actually believe that that story is true? Do you actually believe that reading that story is some sort of spiritual revelation? How does it fit in with self improvement? Remember this is OT3, an important part of the Scientology belief system, and is the (made up) basis for Scientologies war on the mental health profession. (since Xenu ordered then to brainwash thetans) So why are you forbidden by your beliefs to talk about such things? This story is central to your belief in that mental health professionals are evil. Or is it that you have been conditioned by the cult to believe such despite the fact that the "real" reason is hidden from you until you read OT3? (I'll bet anyone that I get no substantive response from Safe on the Xenu questions.)

    Then again, I'm not sure why you are here other than to troll. In typical Scientology fashion you refuse to address uncomfortable issues or challenges to your beliefs systems. You focus on one small object in order to derail the thread away from the uncomfortable truth: You need to leave Scientology or you will never be healthy. Anonymous is not a support group. I'm sure if you ask, we can direct you to those who can help you. But we are not the ones that you should be speaking with.
  32. Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Yes that you try to dicredit Safe by calling him a victim because you do not take victims seriously in the first place.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    oh that was helpful

    and they let you upstairs why?
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    "Religion is always different than truth."
    Indeed, lol.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    This isn't going to go well...

    Safe, failure to let this thread die now = egofaggotry.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Is that you after the purification rundown?
  37. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    Safe is playing the victim card for everything. True that he is a victim of sceintology, but that does not give him a free ride to continue to play one.

    I have no doubt that if he were in charge of COS he would continue the abuse and corruption.

    Something about the lack of empathy tells me so...
  38. Squirrel King Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

  39. conatus Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    This thread is a fucking vehicular wreck of some kind, and yet so hard to look away from. Sumbuddy HALP!

  40. Safe Member

    Re: Mark Rathbun "Disconnects" Safe. My Messages to Marty

    I see we can both agree on something Hubbard said. So we've established that Ron can say something we both perceive as true.

    I've found the Bible and Christianity a sham (thanks to Thomas Paine on this one), just like you think Scientology is.

    Not one religion has ever given me any salvation.

    The Church of Nazarene (a real church) failed to help deliver salvation to me. The Church of God (a real church) failed to help deliver salvation to me. Lastly, as a last ditch effort to try, the "Church" of Scientology (a fake church, a cloaked religion) failed to help deliver salvation to me either.

    Is everybody here an atheist? Is the concept of "God" humbug to you?

    Or does anybody here belong to ANY church now? What religion? If so, which sect? And has it helped deliver salvation to you? If so, how?

    Now that everybody "knows" so much about me, by me putting myself on the line. How about putting yourself on the line and being open to ridicule? I'd like to know a little about your beliefs.

    So what are YOUR beliefs?

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