Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Disambiguation, May 9, 2014.
I hope this woman gets the justice that she deserves! Abuse is not ok and not reporting it to the police is even more not ok!
I do want to remind people of a few things when they consider this case. A bishop in the LDS church is not a trained full time gig... it is a regular member who is giving up time with family and work to volunteer to lead that congregation for a period of time (usually about 5 years). I am in no way excusing his wrongful or illegal actions. I am making sure that we all remember that these guys have no formal religious or counseling training, they are just lay people.
also calling a religion with 15 million members a cult... kinda not cool.
There are actually several established sets of criteria for what constitute a cult. The number of members do not afflict whether it is a cult or not, though maintaining cult-like control in large groups is more difficult than in small groups.
I would think that any group who feels the need (and utter spiritual chutzpah) to come unbidden to my door to try to sell me on their version of jesus is a cult.
Don't even get me started with their dirty money and prop 8. Systemic lack of tolerance of other's human rights is also a cult behaviour.
there are not 15 million mormons..the real total is like 7 million..they lie like scientology..the mormon cult is greedy bastards...they lie just like scientology..find the truth..UTLM.ORG
So I should get dox from a site that is clearly biased? How about a more unbiased site... say wikipedia, which states over 15 million. Or we could go look at census' and figure it out. How about you go do that, and get dox that shows the LDS church's dox wrong... otherwise GTFO.
The 15 million claim is suspect. Doesn't that include all who were ever Mormons? A number of these had died or found other practices.
And not long ago, they massacred a bunch including women and children who were travelling to become Californians.
That was quite some time ago, like more than a century.
I don't think Mormons are a cult, I think they need to take better care of their parishioners and supervise their religious brotherhood better. Hiding child predation for years instead of exposing the predator, reporting him to LE, and looking after the victims- this is a problem in many religions especially with patriarchies (sorry, but there it is) and I believe is worse in insular communities, religions.
All of the Mormons I know truly believe Mormons are better than other people. Like Mitt almost was President and they thought that it was the fruition of the Prophesy.
I wonder if the 15 million includes the people who were baptized into the religion without being there. And not knowing about it.
The LDS church only counts those who are alive. Baptism for the dead is recorded, but not part of the membership numbers as the LDS Church doesn't believe that baptism automatically means membership (since they believe that everyone gets a choice to accept the baptism or reject it and clearly those who are dead can't say if they accepted) Also those who have left the LDS church only need to write a letter asking for their names to be removed and they are. People who leave the church but don't do this are still on the records of the church as members, and an effort is made by the church to contact them to see if they wish to still be LDS, and to invite them back. I can show you the dox backing all of this up, or you can look it up yourself as it's all part of, "The Bishop's Handbook" which includes how to handle membership records (all done at a local level by a guy who volunteers and is called a "Ward Clerk") This handbook is published openly on the LDS church website, or if that is not to your liking wikileaks has a copy, as does a few other places... it's not like LDS church policy is hard to find.
Before I protested Scientology I made sure I read their policies, and understood them. When I protested it was based on things like "disconnection" which is spelled out, or on Sea Org staff treatment (which is also well documented). When I call them a cult, it is based on those organization wide problems, and not because some humans who are part of it are bad. I mad sure that the "wrong" was enshrined as part of the institution and that the leaders supported and endorsed these abuses not just behind closed doors but publicly (not speaking out against them, is endorsing them) I would ask that you do the same for both Scientology and any other organization you have an issue with.
I hope this woman gets justice, that the people who harmed her are called to account. One of the teachings of the LDS church is that you can't repent unless you have come clean about what you have done wrong (including to proper authorities), and tried to make it right (through jail time if needed). Again, I hope that the jury looks at all the evidence and that they take her pain into consideration, and also that the bishop was a lay person, and not a trained minister. It is one thing for a trained (professional) minister to cover up abuse, but another when it is a lay person who is a volunteer. I do know that since that time the LDS church has included in the "Bishop's Handbook" clear instructions on how to deal with these types of situations, and clearly explains what a Bishop is to do. (that is not to say all Bishops will follow it, but at least then it is not because of ignorance, but because of malice on their part, which makes it easier to prosecute)
I also suggest that you go visit your local congregation... when I go to Orgs I see very little people, I can document how few people go in and out. You want to see how many there are... go to the local LDS church building (they aren't hard to find and the LDS church provides a web tool for you to find one) go on a Sunday and see how many people you see. Remember that services last for 3 hrs, and that usually multiple Wards (congregations) meet in one building (usually 2-4 congregations, but as many as 6) Heck start a project like we did with Scientology were anons from all over find their local congregations and just go see if anyone is there... (no I am not telling you to go inside,(but you would be welcome to do so) I am saying that there are many ways for you to verify the numbers given by the LDS church)
Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!