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London Rates Relief Based Talk

Discussion in 'Scientology Property Tax' started by Bluebell, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I'm really, really grateful for all you're doing, Roland - not least because it's an education in how to get through the frustrating process of understanding our systems of government - nobody in the UK were taught Civics at school, at least not in my day, so I'm often appalled at how little I do know.

    One word in your latest response jumped out at me - mafia.

    It has often struck me, as it has many others in the past, how many similarities there are between La Cosa Nostra and Scientology methods and practices, including their ever-present insidious threats of harm against their own, in order to squeeze them a bit more.

    The reason I bring this up here is because I just recently watched some vids on the Mafia on Youtube, and I heard a phrase I only ever heard in relation to the Scilons and the Snow White investigations.

    The phrase was 'unindicted co-conspirator'. In the Mafia case, the 'unindicted' were a couple of gangsters who were co-operating with the FBI at the time.

    Is there any evidence if Elron, or indeed Moxon, co-operated with any federal agency during that investigation, I wonder?
    • Like Like x 1
  2. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I've signed the Official Secrets Act. It was the first thing I had to do on my first day of work at the <beep> when I started there in the year <beep>.

    It reminds me of a funny story. One of my bosses at the <beep> was waiting at Staple's Corner for his wife to pick him up. A police car pulled up, a policeman got out the passenger's side and walked up to him and started taking notes. "Why are you here sir?" - he told them. "What is your name and occupation sir?". He replied "I'm not sure I can tell you that". Policeman replied "And why is that sir?". He replied "Because it's covered by the Official Secrets Act". Policeman closes notebook, reinserts pencil, walks back to the car, gets in, car drives off.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Heh! Nice! Come to think of it, I wouldn't be half as frustrated if the cult got bugger-all, and the decision was cloaked under the O.S.A. :eek:)
  4. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    That will never happen because the people inside that are in the know have too much to hide. That is why Marty Rathbun never says anything nor Mike Rinder even though they know enough to jail the dwarf. It's like the rumoured secret societies in London during Victorian times where the applicant would have to provide details of a murder he had done along with proof before they could become a member.
  5. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I don't see any alternative to Judicial Review in the long term but we have to try all possibilities of getting these decisions revealed and reversed first. That is going to take a long time and be very frustrating for all of us. It is all designed to make us give up in frustration. But when you are at a low point then remember my document and what it indicates can be achieved. There is no counter-argument to anything in that document and that document clearly shows that neither mandatory nor discretionary rates relief should be given.
    --------
    Scientology business rates relief in the UK -- 31AUG2010 -- (PDF version)
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Requesting WT to update some of his FOIs on the WDTK site plz.
  7. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I think they get updated automatically when the response comes in.
  8. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Dear firm of scumbag lawyers,

    I don't know who you are but I am addressing the law firm and its scumbag lawyers who helped the "Church" of Scientology bully their way into getting mandatory rates relief in the City of London full knowing that the main use of their premises would be for auditing and training which the Charity Commission had decided in 1999 was not of public benefit. My advice to you is to shred any possible piece of evidence of the communications between yourselves and your client before the raids happen and to leave the country.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Nope WT has to log in and update

    [ This request has an unknown status. We're waiting for W T to read a recent response and update the status. ]
  10. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Which link?
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I have also done a FOI to Camden Borough Council regard TCR.

    Sci rates relief TCR
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Have a look at the tail end here

    68 Tottenham Court Rd - Scientology rates exemption? - WhatDoTheyKnow

    I like that they have taken the initiative and included the 'museum' as well.

    Roland, WT foi req's here:
    William Thackeray - Freedom of Information requests - WhatDoTheyKnow
    You can see the one's requiring update (ie: incoming info) at the top of the list.
  13. Anonymous Member

  14. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    For all you know, QE2 could be a Scientologist.


    One commands one to get up orft that chair.

    One thanks one.

    One commands one to sit down on that chair.

    One thanks one.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    lol
  16. Sponge Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Nah

    queenw.jpg

    One must provide pendulous baggy milk-secreting organs or perambulate in short jerky movements to the nearest exit. (TITS or GTFO).
  17. Anonymous Member

  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Roland, do you know any old-school Fleet Street hacks? ;)

    It's about time that festering, cancerous Cult got the fuck out of my country.
  19. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    See if we get a raid in the next two weeks. I know it seems hopelessly impossible but there are signals saying it is about to happen. Wait two weeks then we can have a think about this.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk


    ;)
  21. Anonymous Member

  22. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    We know about that refusal. It has fuelled discussions as to whether it means there is an investigation going on (like a fraud investigation) or whether this is some favourite excuse they are using for not giving out information about anything to anybody. If another borough started using this reason in relation to scientology rates requests then it would likely mean a fraud investigation is going on. At this stage it is just guesswork.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Ok think I'll see what WT's TCR Internal review comes up with.
  24. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    By that time the investigation (if there is one) might be over.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Asking WT, DT, TS, JM and SW to up date their WhatDoTheyKnow FOI's plz

    Thanks you guys.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    JM Updated with requests for internal review - also lengthy letter sent to the Comptroller & City Solicitor's Department (author of the collective reply) setting out some of the background and context.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    This is the list of requests they want to bundle together, and then not do most of because after bundling it would take too long ...

    (1) 6 August 2010 (David Taylor)
    For docs of complaints against CoL re FOI reqs re Sci
    City of London Scientology - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (2) 8 August 2010 (Tristan Stewart)
    For application, checks, reasons, legislation refs, what changed between applications
    Scientology rates relief - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (3) 9 August 2010 (David Taylor)
    For Internal Audit docs
    Scientology tax / Internal audit - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (4) 14 August 2010 (J Maxwell)
    Procedures / policy re granting and revoking relief
    Procedures for granting and revoking rates relief - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (5) 15 August 2010 (Steven Williams)
    FOI review procedures and stats - Scientology not mentioned
    FOIA stats - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (6) 17 August 2010 (Tristan Stewart)
    All info: application, reasons, FOI reqs
    146 Queen Victoria St (Scientology HQ) NNDR - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (7) 28 August 2010 (Tristan Stewart)
    records of the meeting which was held at 2pm on Monday 4th July 2005 at 42 Leinster Gardens
    Business rates meeting re 146 Queen Victoria St (Scientology HQ) - WhatDoTheyKnow

    (8) 31 August 2010 (J Maxwell)
    Clarification of references made to docs in response to WT
    Scientology Rates: Explanation of previously cited considerations - WhatDoTheyKnow

    Note that according to the regs, the decision to see a bunch of requests as 'acting in concert' or 'in pursuance of a campaign' Page 6 this PDF is solely down to the authority.

    I do not believe my reqs (JM) overlap the others to any meaningful extent (not 'similar information), and that is the basis of my appeal - clearly there ARE significant overlaps in some (but only some) of the others. The lesson here is to try and avoid overlap, and not bombard them with too many broad scoped requests at once. Which is to say, if they are going to see us as 'acting in concert' anyway, it's better for us if we do just that :-/

    I don't know how many of the named individuals actually use WWP, but I think we need to enhance the wiki page (esp around CoL) with summary info around each FOI req; like summary of info requested, date requested, name attached to request to avoid any doubling-up in future.

    For the moment, my thoughts would be to appeal if your req is well-scoped and has little or no overlap, and consider (just consider) withdrawing your request if it's perhaps too broadly scoped and thus putting others at risk.
  28. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I think it is better to ask just one question or a single piece of information. Get each person to ask for just one different thing. It is to avoid the evasiveness and reduce the opportunity for obfuscation. For this mandatory rates relief all I am interested in lately is the original application form filled in by the clams and a clear statement from the local authority for their justification that the main use of the premises (auditing and training members in return for money) is for the public benefit.
  29. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I didn't realise that it was the job of the Audit Commission to investigate fraud. I think they are doing that right at the moment regarding the charitable rates relief the clams are getting.

    National Fraud Initiative (NFI) - Audit Commission
  30. Sponge Member

  31. Bluebell Member

  32. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Yes, I get the feeling an investigation is in progress and I think it is in the form of the Audit Commission doing a fraud investigation over this charitable rates relief they have been claiming. I don't know if any UK gov. department are doing an investigation into the missing $87,160,000 though. It would be perfect if that were the case. I think we all need to wait and see what happens in the UK over the next two weeks.
  33. Bluebell Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    why 2 weeks? wouldn't any investigation take longer than that?
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    No stick with 2 weeks Roland (and that's 2 weeks from the first time you said 2 weeks)...

    I need a deadline before I start reporting your posts for BTS, because it's seriously getting tempting...

    :-/

    You could of course just stop with the speculation already? That would make me happy.
  35. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    I'm half expecting to be contacted to be reminded about the Official Secrets Act I signed and told to STFU.

    Just think what would happen if they investigated the missing $87,160,000. It would knock them clean out of the British Isles as activities in Scotland, NI and Eire are just satellite operations to England and need St. Hill. And with them gone from the UK and with them being under scrutiny in France already then that would be a green light to the Germans to do what they have been wanting to do for years.........
  36. Bluebell Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Just so this info doesn't get buried in the big sci thread


  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Scientology Celebrity Centre, 42 Leinster Gardens

    Doesn't seem they understand what the FOI was asking them.


    That FOI


    Then their reply
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    Would this in reply back sound ok?

    ' Please explain how the Scientology Celebrity Centre at 42 Leinster Gardens, is for public benefit, when is only really for the benefit Scientology Celebrities to the exclusion of the general public? '
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    No point arguing with them.

    Just request an internal review, which clears the way for you to refer it to the Information Commissioner.

    Then the ICO can do an independent assessment of whether the Council is right or not to withhold the information.
  40. RolandRB Member

    Re: London Rates Relief Based Talk

    With 68 Tottenham Court Road the clams might have changed its status to a bookshop or something rather than a church since it is not listed as a church on their church locator website. This could mean that they are no longer entitled to mandatory relief and this could be what this upcoming court appearance is about.


    Edit: I just saw this and thought I would add it.
    http://www.shadyoldlady.com/location.php?loc=1178

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