London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

Discussion in 'Europe' started by An0nand0n, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. Namenlos Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Thanks, updated.
  2. Re: Police decision

    As we know the police presence was always about keeping traffic moving. If that is no longer necessary due to lower numbers and the police are reasonably convinced that the opposing sides aren't going to break the law then they can't justify being there financially.

    That really takes Anonymous back to the position that existed pre-Anonymous. The police turned up if they felt like it, we had a boom box and microphone but no music. At the request of the police from around 2006 we kept to the far side of the street. The cult ALWAYS called the police and told lies to oblige the police to attend for photo-op purposes.

    So long as individual Anon don't interpret "no police" as "let's behave badly to get them to come back for more lulz" then no problem. Don't block the pavement, get a better sound system (present gear is poor for voice).

    I still think it sensible to notify the police about the date of the 'official' monthly protest, distinguishing that from others.
  3. Miss Cabbage Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Here's a quick thought for getting around the plod "we're going to confiscate your music" threat. I hope it's of some use...

    1. Anons search through their attics, to find old FM radios that they don't particularly want anymore.

    2. Put fresh batteries in the radios. This is the only expense in the scheme.

    3. One Anon brings along an iPod, complete with short-range FM transmitter such as the Griffin iTrip - tuned to a frequency that isn't otherwise in use. Have all our favourite tunes on the iPod but keep it hidden inside a jacket.

    4. All anons, as they arrive, tune in their radios, and tape them to the pen. Voila... one makeshift wall of sound.

    5. If confiscation is threatened, you "Don't know who that radio belongs to." Thus, no direct confrontation with overzealous plod... and no getting v&.

    6. ????

    7. Profit.

    And if all goes without plod interference, reclaim your radio at the end of the protest, for reuse. For extra bonus points, Anons who are handy with a screwdriver can disable a radio's off switch and volume control.

    Anybody up for this?
  4. Graeme Wilson Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I started reading your post and immediately wanted to call you a retard who clearly hadn't read, let alone understood, what is going on. Then towards the end of your post it started to appeal to my inner troll. Now I'm not sure what to say.
  5. Miss Cabbage Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Yeah, I appreciate that I'm not tackling the root cause of the problem (having our freedom of expression curtailed)... but then, I go out to protest the Cult, not to change the law or the way it's interpreted. So I was looking for a way to keep the tunes, without getting myself Joan-of-Arc'ed in some kind of test case. Even if the plod don't really have a leg to stand on.

    But feel free to call be a retard, of course.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    No. And change your supplier - he's giving you bad shit.
  7. Vinonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Alright cunts. I see there's been some changes in my absence.

    Basically, vis-a-vis the police thing, how about we do whatever the fuck we like (but nothing v&-worthy) and the police can deal wih it however they like. Long and the fucking short guys, it's their problem.

    But yeah... couldn't find another thread for this month, so I'm guessing this is where we're planning (and I do use the term loosely) for the next one. Probably not going to be there for this one either, what with moving into new house at uni etc. but October's where it's at bitches.

    Also, I'm thinking of pranking TCR org somehow at some point during this month. If you're interested PM me with some ideas.
  8. Spangly Member

  9. eleven Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    No, actually that was good shit and worth having in reserve.
  10. Vinonymous Member

  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Forgive my ignorance, but why do you need/why do they need to 'cater' to your protest? People have the right to protest so long as they aren't harming or intimidating people, or damaging public property. How exactly do they "cater" to you? Putting up some barriers (which I don't see the point in) and keeping an eye on things? Why can't you just protest regardless and not request involvement from police? Then if the police want to get involved and police the event they're doing so of their own will and it's their own loss?

    Maybe I'm missing something, if so my apologies, but can someone please explain?
  12. Sponge Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Read Hartley Pattersons post above. I think it prettymuch answers most of your questions.
  13. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Yes, you are missing something. The fact that many Londanons harpooned Jim Moore and his governor about this, and the post where the police basically conceded all the points you made. I appreciate that this thread is very long, but having a quick scan through would have saved you time and effort.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    This is only because the SOCPA law is so badly written that it says that one placard, t-shirt (or cake) in Parliament Square constitutes a demo. Says nothing about outside the exclusion zone.

    Sadly many bylaws allow for restrictions on amplified sound in public areas. The same rules are rather more wooly when it comes to Why not have a proper noise demo with drums, pans - or have an orchestral theme - kazoos against scions!!! Alternatively, look up some of the Rhythms of Resistance websites. They have notations and stuff for their tunes (if I remember correctly, the Oxford ones even have MP3s so you can hear what they sound like) - form an Anon samba band!!! Bins and buckets all round!!!.

    With regards to the police's demands about limiting time etc - DON'T. Not only will you cause yourself problems in future by giving in, but because you're setting a precedent you will cause problems for other groups because the police will keep on doing it.

    Did anyone see the Climate Camp's response to the fuzzies wanting to know where the London camp was going to be? It's on YouTube (basically they say no we won't tell you because you if you come, you hit us). Anonymous should do the same - a nice YouTube response. Send Jim the URL and let him look it up.
  15. xxxzzzyyy Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ


    To summarise the Public Order Act 1986:

    The raids are not a "procession", rather a "static protest". There is NO requirement to give advance notice of a static protest under the POA.

    This is where you have to be carfeful - processions are people moving along a route. A group of people assembling at one point is a static demonstration.

    And it's at that point the police powers kick in:

    Going back to the very first post, the police cannot, ex ante impose conditions unless the senior officer at the time (my bold; and, by the way, senior officer at the time can be an acting sergeant - it's the highest ranking officer at the time on scene) wishes to impose conditions ONLY if:

    1) The conditions are necessary to prevent serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community, or

    2) The purpose of the person organising the assembly it is to intimidate others.


    On 1) given that the police have already themselves stated to you in writing that the protests are picnics and street parties (!) then I cannot understand why they could then suggest that 20 protestors could cause serious damage. The problem that they have with this angle is that they - again - have months of precedent and have themselves made no arrests or made records of disorder. The "senior officer" would have to be able to stand in court at a later date and tell Magistrates why such conditions were imposed, especially outside of the restricted one-mile zone by Parliament.

    On 2) there is no "person" organising this. It would be difficult to cite any one person as an organiser of these events.

    In short, I cannot see how the police can impose conditions like they have suggested. Their lack of resources is their problem. And only for the reasons above, i.e. the LAW, can they make such impositions on people's right to free speech.

    Apologies if I've covered points buried in this thread already, but it's an issue I felt strongly enough to comment on to break my cherry on this forum.


    P.S. Don't even get me started on the breaches of Article 11 of European Convention on Human Rights!

    P.P.S. Some overnight thinking required on a "procession" from, say, the City to TCR. If a group of people moving along a route (which is what a "procession" is) can be proven, then...hmmm...I'm going to stick my head in case books and have a ponder on t'weekend.
  16. Vinonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Ball-poppingly relevant post has been ignored... why?
  17. Spangly Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Probably because it doesn't say anything we didn't already know?

    Environmental-health style noise issues, where the noise exists purely because we were blasting music to gather attention, would pass the sniff test for "serious disruption to the life of the community" in the eyes of the law, IMHO. (I don't recall if it was in the recorded conversation I had with a relevant police officer or not, but it was conveyed to me that there are residences in some of the upper floors of the buildings around TCR, and one or more residents Properly Complained about us and noise and stuff.) So, we've dialled the music back down accordingly.

    I'm not aware of any newer Big Problems, apart from the month (october?) when we were told we had to keep 15 feet away from the nearest edge of Lom Bok - thus ensuring we trolled the hell out of the fruit guy. I'm pretty sure that one was down to inattentive policing, and/or the cult falsely claiming that LB had an injunction against us.
  18. _You_ Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    So far the police have been fine if anything they dislike the cult and know what we are doing
    In general no problems
  19. xxxzzzyyy Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Whilst not directed at you, I don't entirely agree. The only reason I say that is that I've read several accounts on here of Plod abusing their powers and asking Anon to do XYZ when they have no legal basis to do so. e.g. the police directing Anon to turn off their music. That is a matter for the environment department of Camden, if they so wish...unless Plod wishes to go to Court and contest that a Rick Roll was stopped to prevent unlawful violence, fear of violence or threats to property - i.e. circumstances that they DO have jurisdiction - then they can be my guest. And I'll pick them to pieces in the box. Something that simply offends someone, notwithstanding unless it's racist/threatening etc, cannot itself be an excuse to exercise the usual nonsense of "breach of the peace" guff that I've seen some officers come out with.

    Serious disruption is a contested piece of wording in the Public Order Act, since is squares up against Articles 11(2) and 10(2) of the Human Rights Act. In the case of protests involving the BNP, then such conditions are usually enforced ex ante, since it is reasonable to believe that the nature of the protests and the liklihood of drawing inflammatory responses from opposition groups are frequent in nature and likely based upon past protests. Only if this can be justified can these conditions be enforced. And they have to balance the right to protest against public safety and the right of persons not involved to go about their business without "serious" (that word again) disruption. This is why ASBOs take such a long time to be worked up.

    I'm not particularly up for picking fights with the police, but if they have no powers to compel me to do something, then I'm not going to bend over and take it like a good boy.

    As I said, though, that wasn't aimed at you. I'd just like to bring a little knowledge to the table.



    P.S. Having said all that, the Cult is the focus, not Plod! Be well.
  20. stuwyatt Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    The police will always abuse their powers if a) it will make their lives easier and b) they think they will get away with it. I remember when the local police here got anons to remove their masks, by saying that a section 60 order was in force for the whole of Plymouth. Subsequent followups showed that there was no section 60 order in place, and that the officer (PC Guy James) totally abused his powers and acted like a twat.

    I suspect that a lot of you are aware of cveitch's channel on youtube.... but please have a look at his and Danny's latest vid:

    The way they deal with security and the police are amazing. Once you know your rights and the laws, you can really stand your ground.
  21. _You_ Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Can't blame PC Plod for wanting a quiet life.

    They're looking after the interests of those who are neither cult nor anons, and doing a pretty decent job of it too.

    You have the choice of either doing what they say (which is good because it keeps them on-side) or not doing what they say and risking arrest (which is good publicity, and you can still do this without pissing them off particularly, unless you're an arsehole about it).

    's all good.
  22. tamphex Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I'm a huge fan of cveitch - always throughly enjoy everything they do and they way they present it with a humor that cannot be ignored. Having personally stood my ground twice in the last fortnight with the police, it certainly does get results and in one instance an actual personal apology for the behavior of one officer.

    Pretty refreshing really. Also, hope all is well with you Stu. I miss our talks.
  23. xxxzzzyyy Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I forgot to answer my own question and I apologise for taking this back on-topic...(!)...

    But in restricting this in advance, Jim is using Section 14 of the POA. However, the police can only do so if the senior officer believe that

    (a) it may result in serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community, or

    (b) the purpose of the persons organising it is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do

    To repeat my previous and Jim's quoted email from way back when, I'm not sure how their own interpretation of this being a "street party" with "picnics" fits this description. And again when their own FOI confirms what that law states, insofar as there is no need to provide advance notice of static protests outside the SOCPA zone of Westminster!

    So - whilst we want to keep plod happy, I'm mindful that they seem to be blending together various bits of legislation simply on the grounds of costs - and costs are not a consideration when it comes to the lawful exercise of freedom of speech.
  24. Thanks for your advice...If anyone has any other advice or would like to be involved in a topless protest being organized in London to take place on August 26 2012 please check out this Facebook page and share and like and all that good stuff if you would be so kind...Men are encouraged to come topless but cover their nips with a cross of black tape or a bikini top in support for the ladies (no pun intended:)

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