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London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

Discussion in 'Europe' started by An0nand0n, Aug 19, 2009.

  1. An0nand0n Member

    London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Hi Guys, I let Jim know about the next raid, here's the reply I got.

    TL:DR: He wants to limit the length of time we spend there to 2 hours and remove the barriers as we no longer have the turnout to justify the cost.

    What do you want to do?

    ---
    [Mod edit:

    There were several conversations involved, not all might have recorded, but some have been:
    The short clip Spangly took
    This brief clip of YetAnotheranonymous

    An FOI response about the policing of protests at TCR has been posted in this post: Post 83

    An FOI request about the costs of policing, as well as an FOI request about sound levels might be made.

    .... Developing

    There is also a "flashraid" planned on Friday 21st of August
    ]


    *Further Communication*

    A couple of Anons have written in to his station prompting him to have a meeting with his Governor. The TL:DR is as follows

    *Due to the lower numbers, there will be no police or barriers present at any future protests.

    *The police will expect a protest of some form at TCR most weekends.

    *Calls from scifags or others will be dealt with by whoever's on duty.

    *Although they are not banning music, local residents and businesses may get the council involved if we continue to play it loudly Short bursts (rickrolls etc) are acceptable.
  2. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    This is fascinating. What is protest?
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Take away the music, knowing full well that it is difficult for a smaller group to fill several hours with chanting without it.

    Then when it proves difficult to do so, meaning that other activities happen to fill the time, say that it is no longer a protest.

    I see where thyey are going with this.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    There has been media interrest in Saturday's bullshit so this could be forwarded?
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Theres an article coming out before next raid. I think this could be forwarded.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Do eet!

    Also,
    I beg you're irrelevant pardon, who the fuck are you deciding what the acceptable components of a protest are?
    Free speach means you don't get to tell me what free speach is.
  7. Mutante Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    LOL faggot UK police can't process what to do unless baton charges are involved.
  8. basil Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    1pm till 3pm?

    No problem.

    3pm till whenever we like? Random flash raids across the road from the Org.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I protest at his restrictions on our right to protest.

    Why doesn't he just say - PROTESTS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE FUN!!
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    "Police now defining what is and isn't protest"
  11. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    First, I.A.N.A.L. However I can read the Public Order Act, and so we need to look at the circumstances under which he can impose conditions upon protests.


    From Public Order Act 1986 (c. 64) - Statute Law Database

    14. Imposing conditions on public assemblies.

    — (1) If the senior police officer, having regard to the time or place at which and the circumstances in which any public assembly is being held or is intended to be held, reasonably believes that—

    (a)
    it may result in serious public disorder, serious damage to property or serious disruption to the life of the community, or

    (b)
    the purpose of the persons organising it is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do,
    he may give directions imposing on the persons organising or taking part in the assembly such conditions as to the place at which the assembly may be (or continue to be) held, its maximum duration, or the maximum number of persons who may constitute it, as appear to him necessary to prevent such disorder, damage, disruption or intimidation.

    Nothing in Anonymous' behaviour could be reasonably interpreted as constituting serious public disorder, serious damage to property or disruption to the life of the community (although it would be worth researching if there is a formal legal definition of "serious" in these contexts). Neither is the purpose of the protest to intimidate (in fact, it could be argued that such things as fancy dress and silly music actively help to reduce any perceptions of intimidation).

    What this seems to me is a police department trying to save money and manpower, and trying to utilise the provisions of Section 14 to do so - which to my understanding, they cannot do (again, in caps: I AM NOT A LAWYER).

    Also, "Vocal, posters / banners and leafletting are the accepted components of protest"? Unless they can provide a legal definition proving this (and the onus is on them to do so since they're making this claim), then: uh, no. Freedom of expression means just that.
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Marching bands then? Marching bands it is. With kazoos.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    You could go all "lawery" and start quoting from the statutes but also remember that you need to be friends with plod too, in some way. They could start being arses about it and vanning people for the slightest mistake rather than giving the usual friendly advice/warnings. So, somtimes it is all about compromises and bartering.

    Submit your "bid". You may even get more than what you had before in some ways.

    Just as an example (Not suggesting this for real. You can do whatever you want) .......

    * Main protest hours limited to 3. No start time dictated, except perhaps with in a range of preferable start times.?
    * Protesting on both sides of the street to avoid congestion. ?
    * Protesting to be allowed directly in front of the org with no music on that side(with a specific limited number on the org side, say 4 or 5?) and limit the span to a pre-arranged distance either side of the org front.?
    *One policer office on each side of the street or whatever you see fit.?
    * No "picnics" with "street party" tables with cake (although one small card table may be required for leaflets storage and display).?
    * No barriers.?
    * Music limited to x? number of minutes per hour. Moar chanting and signs ... you know, like what they think a "textbook" protest is really supposed to be so as not to confuse the alleged concerned "public".?
    * Avoid congregating several lines deep on the limited width of the pavement area (so as not to confuse the alleged concerned "public").?
    * Flash protests with small numbers continue as they have in the past.?
    * Also, cocks.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Invite the black bloc right now! Like 300 of them. Protests have become too nice even for the police.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    "Be friends with plod" is not the same as "allow them to unlawfully run roughshod over our legal rights".
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Anon-007 Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    And on a different front, Anon is supporting the police.

    Think about all the overtime the underpaid policepeeps are earning - and they hardly have to do any real work for it either (like arresting criminals, issuing parking tickets or strolling around in riot gear)

    That's probably why the London plods are so nice - we are helping them to pay off their mortgages early ;)
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    [samefag from your quote]

    Oh for sure, that is still very true. The last sentence of plods letter was particularly telling. ie the elements of what he thinks protest should be limted to.
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    DO NOT give into this.

    The above extract from the public order act shows that it's illegal for them to impose such conditions (inb4 some anti-terrorism powers)

    Also consider, if there ARE less than 20 people:
  19. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    We already have vocal, posters, banners and leafleting. In force. He can't say we're not just because we also have music and dancing.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I say next week we have continous flash raid protests every night I work in london so i can get down there each night by 6:30ish to 7

    Whose up for some flash raids next week?

    Infact I'm also off work friday if anyone wants to do some raiding then aswell
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Also numbers are low this month because of holidays and shit ffs its august!
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Jim is rapidly becoming a cheeky little fucker.
  23. Anon-007 Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Just a thought.

    When police attend football matches, the football club picks up the bill for the extra policing.

    As the presence of the Cult is the reason for the protests, perhaps the police should bill them for the supposed extra policing costs?
  24. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I can be around. PM me.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Hai Heretic!
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    You mean "Hai Heretic, you fat cunt!
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I think this is the bit they'll likely try to get us under

    i.e. Lombok and the cult bawwwing.
  28. xenubarb Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    cult = "blight," not "community."

    How nice to know Loldon PD have now defined 'protest' within constraints.
    This should not stand!
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Tell Jim to go fuck himself. With his truncheon.
  30. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    i'll throw a couple of duracell's his way for his *ahem* truncheon.

    in other news, every time i decide to quit this.. something with the potential for some truly epic lulz rears it's head...

    no barriers?
    only 2 coppers??

    excellent!

    EVERYBODY, next raid, bring along everyone/anyone.... friends, relatives, complete strangers... get as many bodies to the next gig as possible, call in favors, whatever, just get the numbers up as high as possible...

    no barriers and only 2 coppers.... hehehehe!
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Note that the no barriers and only 2 coppers thing seems to apply to the one after September 19th - i.e. October.
  32. Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    oh yeah... Damn! *learns to read*
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Looks like a concerted effort to get the numbers up is in order.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Black bloc is not your private army. And some of them have attended Chanology events. ;)

    Tribute to black bloc
  35. Anon-007 Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    At least the Black bloc won't need to wear masks ;)
  36. basil Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Black bloc? Do not want.
  37. Spangly Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I suggest reminding Jim that we are not required in law to give the police advance notice of any Static Demonstrations, and have been doing so purely as an act of goodwill. If the police really want to proceed on a "no goodwill whatsoever" basis, then I'm sure our attitude will be influenced accordingly.

    btw, Liberty say that an assembly can be two people. I believe POA has had various amendments during its lifespan, one of which includes that change.

    Same page also says that the only restrictions they can impose under POA are duration, number and location. For noise-volume issues, I'm pretty sure that they have to get Environmental Health involved (who would have to issue an abatement order and us then breach it, in order to confiscate equipment).

    Rhythms of Resistance have proven, time and again, that music can be an integral part of protest. I'd be very interested to hear how, in law, our situation is different. If it's purely that they had more people turn up, I'd call BS - my personal right to protest is not bound to how many other people turn up for the same event.

    If there's a specific EH (env. health) issue related to noise levels / directionality, I would be pretty open to playing nicely to mitigate that particular problem (say, hypothetically, "don't point highly-directional equipment directly towards the org / residences").

    Some untrained plod asserting that he can outright ban us from playing music over PAs entirely just comes over as being intentionally untruthful in an attempt to avoid having to do work.
  38. xenubarb Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Now why does the Gold Base 110 decibel tritone come to mind when you mention noise and health issues? Ghod, I am sick of these whiny scilons and their stupid PD tools!
  39. Old Shadow Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    Wow. Really sorry to hear about this development, Loldon. I certainly hope you're going to fight this one.

    Re what Spangly just said, yes I also heard that 2+ persons can be considered an assembly, but then again as has also been established, less than 20 people and BY LAW you are not required to inform the Police beforehand. This was the same point we had up North, we had always informed Plod beforehand as a courtesy; we stopped doing it once they started being arsey about the masks.

    But the main thing I would like to stress is this.

    They can only limit the duration of your protest etc under Section 14. Section 14 only applies if they believe there's going to be 'trouble'. Do the things that Jim mentions in his email (music, dancing, PICNICS for christ's sake) sound like indicators of trouble? No, and if they try to claim Section 14, that email is not going to do them any favours.

    Personally, I think Jim just emailed out a big footbullet.

    Also: this shit comes into effect in October....Saint Hill IAS Event month. Won't most of you (and possibly The Shadow) be at Saint Hill that weekend?
  40. Spangly Member

    Re: London Policing. London Anons, PLEASE READ

    I've done a bit more reading-round and found some more stuff I think we ought to be aware of.

    On Activists Legal Project - Resources I had a look at their Guide to Possible Offences - basically a big list of things that protesters might be guilty of. Section 2b of that file (on page 3), "Additional powers to prevent obstructions in urban areas" seems to indicate that the senior-type police (i.e. Commissioner-level) in London have even greater powers to just make up instructions/orders/directions and arrest you if you don't obey them.

    That said, as it requires super-high-level intervention I really can't imagine them using it on us - but it's still worth being aware that it is theoretically possible.

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