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Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

Discussion in 'Senator Xenophon And Scientology' started by Anonymous, May 23, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

  2. RightOn Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    this looks promising
  3. tazor Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Yes it does. Good timing too. :)
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    The more I hear about Xenophon, the more I dislike him. Hey, let's criminalize making people believe stuff! Yeah, that would be awesome. Hey says: ""The fear, the manipulation and the coercion they were put under was just enormous. That's why we actually need to have laws that can deal with an issue like this which wouldn't impact in any way on the freedom of religion," he said." Hey dipshit, your country doesn't already have laws prohibiting coercion and undue manipulation? Oh wait, that's right, your country does already have laws covering that shit. But hey, let's just go ahead and criminalize even more behaviors. Australia, stop letting your government fail on a daily basis.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    lol u mad
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Thanks for that command, but I'll leave the hating to you Scientologists.
  7. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Looking at the way many cults can go on with their antics in many countries for many decades, having specific pieces of legislation to handle that might not be superfluous, IMHO.
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    TROLL.jpg
  9. terryeo2 Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Is it just me, or has there been an increase in the number of trolls here recently...? Trolls trolling trolls, or 40-year-old idiot cult members who are trying to get their "stats" up b4 Thursday? The world may never know.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Yes, don't consider any viewpoints different from your own. Just label it a troll and move on. Critical thinking sucks.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    2/10
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Thanks for those two commands, but I'll leave the hating to you Scientologists.
  13. PodPeople Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Not just u. creepin' crawlin' with 'em. Is there such a a thing as troll exterminators?
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Oh hai Herro!
  15. DeathHamster Member

  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Australia (and the UK and US) should look at using the UK Undue Influence legislation more widely and specifically against cults.


    The principle comes under a branch of law called “constructive fraud”. It covers trickiness that the courts construe as being fraud even if the culprit was not engaged in outright deception. It is enough that someone is pressured to do something with a legal consequence while not exercising free and independent judgement.

    Undue influence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Law Explored: undue influence - Times Online
    Duress and Undue Influence in Contract Law
  17. timthephoto Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    there's also quite an old uk law about "taking advantage" ,especially over gullible ppl
  18. CarterUSP Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Just in case this is OSA:
    Hubbard was a fat, lying, vistaril taking, insane conartist
    Miscavige is a tiny, violent, out of touch with reality, squirrelly squirrel
    You pulled it in.
  19. Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Hey!!! Hubbard was a visionary who foresaw the amazing reality that psyches have been trying to take over the world. OSA are not brainwashed, they have super tech powerz and dosnt pull anthing in. They're tech is really really good. OSA are saving the planet. Leave OSa Alone !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  20. Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    No it's not just you. My youtube account has just started getting "fair-lamed" whereas it had been ignored before.
    QFT. I noticed Xenophon said leave room for freedom of religion. Don't think this is by accident.
    fuck yeah.

    1) Senate Inquiry
    2) Judicial Inquiry
    3) Changes of laws to make it more difficult against cults

    While 1 and 3 do not explicitly target Scientology, they implicitly target Scientology.

    I think I can see why their has been no work done on the ideal org in Sydney in the last few months.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    [IMG]
  22. Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Yes, there has been a significant increase in trolls over (I'd guestimate) the last 2 weeks. Optimistically, I put this down to pressure from above. But $cn's pathetic attempts to "handle" this situation are just that, pathetic.

    I hope Australia agrees to their "pros and cons" measuring system re: charitable organizations. Imagine Scientology having to show that they do something that benefits "the public good." What a joke! They have no chance and they know it. I think their game might be over... and in life you don't get another quarter (yes, I stole that from MTV).
  23. Consensus Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    I in good conscience can't get behind this
  24. Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    In the memory of jonestown, children of god and waco, lets bring in the responsible laws that should have been there ages ago to do what politicians should be doing: Protecting the rights of ordinary people from becoming victims of these self serving deceptive and extremely harmfull cults.
  25. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Attempts to revive brainwashing theories will bring out the cult apologists in force, as well as ɱoral Ƒags concerned with adult freedom of choice and religion.

    I expect that all the DA material on Singer and Ofshe is being dusted off right now, for a scholar rake-fight. The main problem is that there is no definition of brainwashing, mental influence, NLP, etc, that is accepted by major scientific bodies. (However, they're not rejected either, as the apologists claim.)

  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    [IMG]
  27. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Lol. You can give it, but...
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    critics making progress equals more trolls
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    So you think some of the trolls may not be just Scientology trolls? Interesting. It would explain the increase, as OSA cannot possibly be expanding. :)
  30. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Some groups always see anything examining "brainwashing" by cultic groups as the thin edge of the wedge leading to mass forced adult deprogramming of anyone who has a non-mainstream belief system.

    I'm sure that Scientology (and the Blatheren, etc) will be throwing scare-bombs in their direction to provoke a stampede.

    (Not that I'm in favor of cowboy-style forced adult deprogramming.)
  31. Major Boyle Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Troll, troll, troll the cult
    Gently down the stream
    Merrily, Scarily, Warily, Perously,
    They'll need Vaseline!
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    I'm not in favor of forced deprogramming either. At the same time, using subtle forms of hypnosis is unethical. But then, that includes advertising, and a million other forms of suggestion. I'm sure a clinician could draw a clearer line, though.
  33. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    I LOL'd!

    Seriously, I'd support stronger laws to help tackle cults if I could think of some reasonable ones. Quite how you legislate against mental manipulation effectively I'm not sure; I imagine it will be one of those laws that will sit there until some Government finds a use for its own ends.

    I believe it is best to discard such things as automatically granting religions charity status in favour of a benefit / harm test; after all unless the community/society believes it is getting something back why should it support it?
  34. mirror neuron Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    There's some kind of irony about drawing a legal line defining mind control--at least, a line that would rule in enough to be useful. Even if enough people would agree that doing so is not repressive, it would be hard/impossible to get agreement on where the line should be. Maybe Xenophon has something useful in mind about that, but I think it's probably more effective to focus hard on charitable status.
  35. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Some people seem to believe that the removal of the charity status would solve the problem. I do not.

    I agree that it would influence greatly the situation for cults like scientology, but I think it would not stop them.

    The level of action acceptable from the government varies from one country to the other. AFAIK, France is one of the few countries that made a specific regulation to combat cults. It does not present it as such but defines:
    - when somebody needs special attention (depression, illness, divorce, etc.)
    - when an organization is abusing the situation (selling techniques, control, etc.)
    - how the abuse will be handled.

    It might not be the best solution everywhere, but it is another tool to limit abuse by cults.
  36. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    I don't believe removing charity status will solve the problem mainly because the cult operated without it for quite a while. It merely properly removes the public subsidy from the cult that it currently receives, be a major PR win and reduce their takings somewhat.

    I would like to see anti-cult legislation BUT given the law has a hard time even defining religion I know it will be very difficult to do in practice.

    There may be more scope to restrict activities but here are some ideas I've being toying with:

    "FIXED DONATIONS" being outlawed, although the cult will likely simply switch to "MINIMUM DONATION" instead which is harder to legislate against as many legitimate charities do use this for good reason. And what about charity shops pricing up second hand clothes?

    Free stress / personality tests being outlawed unless certified by an appropriate psychiatric authority. A little tricky because there are quite a few "for entertainment purposes only" tests around and we all know about the e-meter... What about all those dating sites?

    Stricter control over "counselling" services with a regulatory body. Again tricky because all sorts of groups offer counselling and not all of it is bad. Indeed most religions include "spiritual" counselling which amounts to the same thing anyway and all the lines get very blurry at that point. The number of people who find religion during "hard times" in their lives... shudders.

    Advertising religion is not allowed in the UK, thank <ahem> but even here they managed to slip in some "CCHR" / Way to happiness stuff; that really should have been prevented but our whiny Advertising Standards body said it wasn't connected to the "church" and refused to accept evidence that it was. That said I don't believe prohibition is the answer - it never works - I'd rather see adverts for Scientology on every corner and an educated public that ignores them.

    It's technically illegal to detain people against their will unless you are the Governing body and you have performed some form of due process and yet the cult does it.

    Any suggestions on laws that can be effective in preventing cults from operating welcome. I admire France for what they do, they cook good food too, but am not sure if they really have anything that effective; ineffective legislation is worse than no legislation because it can be abused.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Swing and a miss.

    It's also another tool to control and regulate the population. You can't just ignore the potential for abuse.
  38. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    You may have noticed that the legislation I mention do not refer to beliefs, but to behaviors. Could also be applied to abusive therapists, for instance.
    Since it exists in France, this legislation has been used once in several years, against scientology. I do not ignore the risk, but observe what happened so far: no abuse.
  39. Random guy Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    I think this is the important part. As there's no surefire way to define brainwashing, laws will have to address certain types of behaviours as illegal. I think starting with a band on hiding the identity of behind at test (Dianetics as part of Scientology).
  40. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Laws failing against cult brainwashing, says MP

    Don't you want again some parts of read sentence before post?

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