Customize

Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    This is the only place where they can get some info about what's really happening in the secretive bowels of the scientology enterprise.
  2. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    That alone justifies blowing.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I had nothing about Kinkade, but after your tirade, I feel suspicious of it. I think I will start to hate too, just to be safe.
  4. BigBeard Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I believe the 'cognitive dissonance' results from various combinations of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Stockholm Syndrome, and what I can only describe as a form of Battered Spouse Syndrome.

    And I believe it's primarily trying to cope with the PTSD, without professional help, that causes many recent ex-members to slide into the "Independent" camp. It feels right, without the stressers of actually being in.

    My 2 cents, YMMV.

    BigBeard
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I think the second most compelling thing about fora like these to current cultists who are adventurous enough to show up is that they notice we actually have fun. . .and they notice that they *don't*. One of Scientology's broken promises is that you'll be happy and have fun. When they notice that people who should be unhappy degraded bigots are, in fact, happy degraded bigots, that sets off the first domino. Next step is wait, they're not degraded either. . .at least unless they wanna be, and they're not bigots. It's not too far from there to realizing that virtually everything the cult told them about everything is complete BS, and the next step is planning an escape. Or better yet, stay in for a bit and be a spai. Which, again, attracts more people here who want to find out what's really going on in their own cult.

    And sorry for the Kinkade threadjack. I didn't know there was any controversy about him completely sucking. Any implied dis of the real subject of this thread, Karen de la Carriere Jentzsch, was incidental. I hate Scientology too, and she was or is a Scientologist, which is way worse than dealing Kinkade paintings. I still welcome her departure from the cult, and hope she recovers from both vices.

    This is going to be a *huge* event for current Scientologists, because it is, to many, completely inconceivable for an OG scieno like this to blow publicly. M&M blowing was pretty huge, too, but they had so viciously fucked over and bullied so many members that painting them as SPs wasn't that tough. That won't be easy to do in this case.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    OMG, they could be the same person, were they ever seen together?
  7. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    !

    THIS is a take on the Lisa McPherson incident I had never considered. How much of the cover-up was about David Miscavige saving face after declaring Lisa McPherson "Clear" all by himself?

    edit: how much Tech has he Squirreled to obfuscate his error?
  8. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Who can say how many he's killed?
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    And I wish her aggressive anal warts.
  10. RightOn Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    woah.
    sorry.
    not cool or funny
  11. kissyfur Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I have an issue with this:

    Thomas Kinkade Now "Painter of Fraud" | NBC Bay Area

    or this:

    Thomas Kinkade South Plains Gallery shares beauty, message of the artist | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

    I know of an unfortunate soul who was given such 'hilighted" garbage as a gift

    and also, how many friggin lit up cottages and bridges does a person need to paint? Imagine if Monet only painted water lillies in 50 different ways and Van Gogh produced "starry night" followed by "shooting star night" and "now it's more like early morning but you can still see the moon". You can have a style that doesn't consist of the same garbage over and over.

    but if you like that kinda thing, feel free to pursue it

    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Kinkade-Paint-Number-Brands/dp/B00018H6P8]Amazon.com: Thomas Kinkade - Paint By Number Asst. by Mega Brands: Toys & Games[/ame]
  12. timthephoto Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    so Karen is not the only person in the world to be selling TOTAL SHITE for big money, it's not as if any of her customers are forced into buying the poxy things is it?

    beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if people stuck in the concrete jungle wish to buy such "art" and stand there dreaming of living in one of the depicted twee cottages, i say best of luck to her. i also wish her god-speed on the off-ramp from scientology and all it's fucked up BS Tech

    why all the awfulness ITT?
  13. tippytoe Member

  14. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba_SgEG4zbI&feature=related]YouTube - Eye VS Shaving Knife (may induce WTFness)[/ame]

    Can we discuss this or DuChamp instead?

    edit: Remember, kids: Dada is a fish with electric eyes impaled on a toothbrush.
    Surrealism is a reflection upon having been the fish.
  15. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    That looks like a cheery little vid. I'll wait for a description though. :confused:
  16. xenubarb Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Caravaggio was a "painter of light."

    Kinkade is a "painter of twee little cottages." And speaking of light, it'd be funny to get Kinkade downstairs to the lair of the funny dauber at Camelot Castle.

    And speaking of fraud, the 70s had their own rampant, tasteless fad art, the Keanes who gained fame for their depictions of starving kitteh and childrens with giant, sad eyes. Yeah, those Keanes.

    Funny story; turns out MISTER Keane was taking credit for his wife Madeline's paintings. During a lawsuit regarding that, Madeline painted an original right there in the courtroom. When it was his turn, Mr. Keane claimed he "hurt his shoulder" and was unable to paint.

    Madeline won the suit.
  17. pooks Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Really? I laughed.
  18. Smurf Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    God, I've had those. One surgery removed 93% of the tissue around my anus. Every time I took a dump, it felt like I was crapping razor blades...

    Never mind... have a nice day.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    She must be doing something right... 517 comments on Marty's blog so far... half of them are hers. Must be a slow week for selling shitty art.
  20. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I think it may be a combination of a number of things. One is her Scientology auditor training that is important to properly "acknowledge" all communication -- or at least all meaningful communication that is not designed to obstruct. I also get the strong sense that is her natural personality anyway -- to be friendly, be nice, acknowledge, engage and respond -- which may be why she is such a successful saleswoman and may be the reason she became an Auditor. There is definitely an auditor personality type, and she is it.

    I also think that, like a lot of Scientologists when they first come out, she has a lot of pent up "stuff" -- stories, complaints and things she couldn't discuss for years and, in her case, decades.

    /
  21. RightOn Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    OMG Smurf, that sounds absolutely dreadful. It made me cringe
  22. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Karen on her daughter-in-law's pregnancy:
  23. 1957 Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    LOL Michael, I hope (and suggest that) she does!

    As I read between the lines of Karen's story -- this is a woman who was always in a position of privilege. She was always one of the elite. On the Apollo with LRH, hand-picked by him to be something-or-other (sorry, never been a scilon and don't grok scilon-speak), married to Heber, etc., etc. A real golden girl.

    I have encountered/known many people like her out here in the wog world and most of them, are like her, extremely well-meaning. It is important to live well and to share blessings. But the attitudes and assumptions of a life of privilege is hard to crack for a lot reasons, but mostly because it is hard for any of us to admit that we have been unwitting (Interesting that she fought so hard for herself, in such and admirable way, at Int Base). That is foolish, blinded. Others 'may" deserve such treatment, but not me. And we usually can't unless it hits very close to home in some respect (I can guess, Michael, that your own awakening was intricately tied into not only your sexual essence but also your identity as an artist).

    Karen strikes me as a people-collector, she revolves and centers her identity as a person around her ability/talent to relate and affirm others which in return brings self-affirmation. Which is not at all a bad thing, in of itself!

    To be able to give, and to be appreciated in return (note the post on Marty's blog about her and the cockatiel lady!). That is, she may very well center her identity around being a good friend/lover/wife/mother/daughter/student etc. So when, finally, that role is threatened in a profound way . . . It is not at all surprising that she has gone for blood. Much like a long-suffering wife has been summarily disposed and her now-adult children bought off in return that they are expected to expected to accept unconditionally the lies told about her in return for financial security from Dad/Cult.

    I see her as a woman who played by the "rules" she was expected to play by no matter what, no matter her doubts and reservations. In return, she was tacitly promised that her essential role/identity would not be fucked with.

    But DM, being the psychopath that he is, could not tolerate her "power" and played a game of chicken with her son. And that is where the line was drawn. She, to her credit, has stood up to him.

    It will be interesting to see where it will lead in the future. I find it EXTREMELY interesting that she has already been working with the feds with regard to art fraud (and publicly posing about how much she admires and respects law enforcement). With that little statement alone, she has fired a massive explosive over the ship of Miscavige. She is saying, that he can no longer control her via her loyalty to LRH and furthermore, she "knows" people in certain places who she can easily call up and ask a favor.

    Judging by her picture and her online persona, this is not a woman who burns bridges. easily. Check out her warm responses to John Peeler, Tory Christman, Chuck Beatty and of all people J. Swift! These are not people who love LRH and his tech. Yet, she expresses empathy for what they have been through and thanks them for what they have done to illuminate the world.

    My bet is that Karen Jentzsch ne La Carriere has had about all she can take and is able and willing to fire off some very big guns (not to mention call in a few "fed" favors). I wouldn't at all be surprised if she isn't capable of lining up a few current and relevant affidavits of her own....

    tl:dr: Don't ever fuck with a powerful Mama Grizzly. And you go girlfriend (& while you are at it, check out MP's paintings. Not only are they wonderful paintings, but it would goad DM exponentially!)
  24. tippytoe Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    2q809r8jpg1.gif

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
  25. Random guy Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    That's my impression too. Particularly the "can't wash the septic tanks" bit came off as someone who has always been, as you said, privileged. She's the only one I've heard about so far that actually too measures to avoid punishment.

    I agree on your other points too. It will be interesting to see how she develops.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Enjoy ur goatse.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    "Clear" is an invented state, it doesn't exist, it doesn't matter who declares "Clear" whomever, it's all hogwash. However it matters that people are locked-up and being prevented real care by medical experts, instead of submitting them to Hubbard's demented nonsense.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Nothing relevant came up when I googled "how to unread"
  29. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Your entire analysis is great, but I wanted to address the above.

    I'm seeing this issue more and more -- i.e., people who are recently "out" being greeted by people who left the COS 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago.

    People who are recently out who are being greeted by people who they not so long ago were calling SPs.

    People recently out who are being greeted by people to whom in the past they did wrong in the name of COS and LRH.

    People who are recently out who are being greeted by people who left the COS 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years ago, and having to face the truth of -- "You know what? You were right when you left [5, 10, 15, 20, 25] years ago, and I was wrong when I stayed."

    Karen recognized this issue when she posted:
    Translation of "theetie wheatie" for those who were never a Scientologist:
    Now here is another area where Marty is very smart, and quite frankly as a competitive environment ESMB falls down (and WWP doesn't care and doesn't bother to compete). For those who came out of of the COS and are now Independent Scientologists -- and even those, like J. Swfit, who are out the of the COS and really don't qualify as Independent Scientologists but post on Marty's board -- Marty's board is a "the past is past," "we all move forward together," "no recrimination" zone.

    On ESMB, Karen is being attacked for poor auditing, not leaving the COS earlier, not leaving the COS until the shit hit too close to home, for still believing in the tech, etc. If she were to appear on ESMB, she would undoubtedly have to defend herself. On Marty's blog she is simply appreciated and appreciates others. On Marty's blog there is either a tacit rule that people do not attack others for their past actions and failures to act (because Xenu knows they -- we -- were all guilty to some extent or another), or Marty doesn't allow such attacks to be published.

    I think Karen may be very important and very powerful for all of the reasons you have stated, plus one additional reason. That reason is that she excellently plays the role -- indeed she is -- the attentive and now (finally) protective mother hen. That has awakened in her re: her own son. She is expressing that toward her "brood" on Marty's board. She pretty much responds to every post directed at her. She is positive and appreciative when it is even remotely possible to be so. She expresses empathy and sympathy.

    I've noted more than one comment on Karen's thread about the role MSH, Mary Sue Hubbard, played in the early days, and particularly on the Apollo. That role was of the mother hen who was protective of families, made sure people got their family time, etc. I don't think it is a surprise these comments are appearing on Karen's thread.

    If I was Marty, I would keep Karen around, keep her close, and have be a major poster / commentator. People like her. She likes people. And, perhaps belatedly, she clearly loves playing a motherly, protective, nurturing role.

    /
  30. 1957 Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

  31. 1957 Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Also. I am very interested to find out what happened to the grandbaby. From what I can gather, she was talking about a late term pregnancy, and then poof, the baby dies. Not common in this day and age. Did it have anything to do with the mother's pre-natal health and lack of good nutrition and medical care in early pregnancy?
  32. BigBeard Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    This all sounds nice, and if it helps her cope for now, that's fine too.

    But I'll still stand by my observation back in post #164 that many, not necessarily all, ex's slide into "Independent Scientology" as a way of coping with various combinations of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), Stockholm Syndrome, and a degree of Battered Spouse Syndrome, which may be psychological battering as well as the physical issues involved with being assigned to the "deck force" or RPF for extended periods.

    The way you describe Marty's board would make it a candle to the moth trying to cope with PTSD without professional help. In it's own way it could be just as insideous as the Cof$ because it feels right, without the stressers of actually being in, but not actually dealing with the physical and/or pschological trauma(s) the ex has been through.

    BigBeard
  33. pooks Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    You do a good job of this. I've read the blog myself and find that you cross post things that are definitely relevant


    I totally appreciate this. I do the same. When I post an email or a comp list or some kind of dox, I try not to comment as I want people to read and make their own comments rather than trying to sway it from my point of view.

    If I have something so say, I'll try to comment on it from a poster POV rather than as the OP. Maybe it's not necessary, but to me, I am the person bring the data, not the actual originator and think that it should stand on its own.


    Same goes for translating/writing subtitles to videos that are not in English. I have always thought the video translations should be word for word. Or as close as possible without any editorial comments.

    That's for a NEWS show or documentary translation.


    That's fine, that's sort of a translation of what is being said in Scio Speak. Just be clear that it is your translation of it.



    This may be a goofy "technical point" and by no means am I an "expert auditor"

    All Sec checks are started with "I am not auditing you". If you are a fully indoc'd insane cultist, you don't have a problem with it, because you know that a sec check is an ethics action not an auditing action. If you are a true cultist you understand the importance of a sec check and you go along with it because you know in the long run it will actually "help" you. Yes. This is what true blue, die-hard, kick-in-the-teeth, culties believe.

    The fact that DM and OSA use to gather data on people is another matter and something that most TrueBlue Scios don't really know about. If you are a true believer in the tech, and understand the importance of Sec checking in Scn, then you won't have a problem with being given this "R-Factor". [R factor = Reality Factor and in scio speak you are being told that "that's a fact Jack and any disagreement means you have undisclosed overts or crimes".

    This is one way the mind fuck is instilled in people.




    We can only hope. My understanding is the OSA staff and volunteers that read this board and the "critical sites" including Marty's blog, are given sec checks on a weekly basis to "handle" all the entheta on their lines.

    The Sec checks will ensure that any "doubts or reservations" are handled so that the OSA
    staff member continues to drink the kool aid and refuses to actually look.



    I'm glad to hear this. Generally, I dismiss people who talk about the "lurkers" but I believe you because I think you are one of the honest ones.

    As you may have noticed, I'm rather skeptical of most Ex's because I know of the damage that is done and what fucking LOONs most of us are.

    So far, I feel you are quite even handed. I don't always agree with your opinions but I think you are an honest person and I wanted to let that be known.

    Thank you for your efforts and don't let the retards get to you.

    P
  34. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I also stand by my comments about her. She watched this evil take place for decades (the evil she's now talking openly about) and continued to majorly fund it. She is indirectly, personally responsible for destructive actions taken against numerous victims of the cult, both exes and non (some of them done by Mahty, of course). Is she sorry yet, or only interested in playing pin (all of) the fail on the midget? Is she going to donate $1M to the cause of ending the fraud and abuse, to offset what she gave to help prop it up?

    Here's a litmus test I like to use: what's she got to say to Gerry Armstrong?
  35. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Too bad he never worked on Black Velvet.

    Maybe he's a Johnny Walker fan...
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

  37. Don Carlo Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Kha Khan, thanks for your reply. I still don't understand why this-is-not-an-audit-but-it-is-a-sec-check is so bad. Is it more abusive?
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    int1.png
    int2.png
    int3.png
  39. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I believe it is for several reasons, and I believe many (but perhaps not all) Scientologists, ex-Scientologists and Independent Scientologists would agree.

    First, there is a big thing in Scientology about not invalidating someone's auditing gains, auditing grade (e.g., Grade 0, I, II, III, IV, Clear, OTI, OTII, etc.), and particularly not their state of Clear.

    In addition, a "not audting you" sec check is literally that in the COS -- it is not auditing. It is not for the benefit of the PC. It is a justice action.

    To give credit where credit is due, Paul on ESMB looked up the reference:
    Thus, here are the differences.

    First, as indicated above, a true non-HCO, non- "I am not auditing you" Confessional is a form of auditing for the benefit of the parishioner. The HCO, "I am not auditing you" Security Check given to Karen was not a form of auditing and was expressly not for her benefit.

    Secondly, if there were technical, "auditing" type reasons to question someone's status as a clear -- and the Case Supervisor was questioning that status for proper technical reasons for the benefit of the PC (e.g., the PC had trouble on OTI, OTII, or OTIII later on, or trouble in life, etc.) -- then the expectation would be that the investigation and repair would be through some sort of technical, auditing remedy, such as an assessment list and/or repair auditing - even if necessary through a true, non-HCO, non- "I am not auditing you" Confessional that, unlike an HCO, "I am not auditing you" sec check, would qualify as auditing, would be for the PCs benefit, and would be kept confidential.

    By giving Karen an HCO, "I am not auditing you" sec check" they were: (1) accusing her of not only being a liar, but making a false attestation of Clear; and (2) saying that if they proved the charge she would be subject to a justice action. Making a false attestation, and particularly a false attestation of Clear, is a punishable offense.

    Thirdly, leaving aside the practical truth that the COS violates parishioner privacy and the minister - penitent privilege at whim and assuming the COS actually followed its own rules, the contents of a true non-HCO, non- "I am not auditing you" Confessional would be privileged and should NOT be disclosed to the authorities and should be kept confidential. The HCO, "I am not auditing you" Security Check given to Karen was not a confessional, would not be kept confidential, and would be disclosed to the authorities.

    Basically, it is the difference between the proper tech terminal, the Case Supervisor, saying:
    and essentially having some Ethics Officer, Director of Inspections and Reports, OSA terminal or DM say, or imply:
    Now, I know many people here will think the distinction is BS because all of Scientology is BS and they don't following their own rules anyways. But think of it from Karen's perspective as a Class XII Auditor and Case Supervisor herself. She knew the rules. She believed in the rules. Everything I've read about her indicates she followed the rules for the intended benefit of her PCs. And then they do that to her? Within the Scientology ideology and worldview it was intentionally degrading, insulting and threatening.

    Finally, above I said that "many (but perhaps not all) Scientologists, ex-Scientologists and Independent Scientologists would agree" with me. I said that for two reasons. First, because many Scientogists became so enamored of "Command Intention" (i.e., DM's intention) and following orders that they just didn't care about the rules anymore. Secondly, it is possible there is some Tech reference (HCOB) I'm not aware of, particularly a "secret" one, that says it is perfectly fine to give a HCO, "I am not auditing you" sec check to a Clear. But even if there were, it was still calling Karen a liar and it would not be standard, expected practice for a questionable Clear.

    /
  40. Simonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Lorelei, you were close about the people being "raptured away" in Kinkade's paintings:

    Esplanade.jpg

    LOL! I wonder if Karen could get me one of these???

    ---------

    On more important things... I don't get how she could have, even at the time, understood how horrible life was in the Sea Org (where a slip of the tongue cost her six months imprisonment, manual labour and her husband) to where she had to get out, but didn't mind her kid going. I'm not insulting her, I just can't wrap my head around that mindset.

    Before Marty's blog, people fresh out would flock to Xenu.net, ESMB, maybe here, or others. These places gave them the same belonging feeling they needed, but gently (or not so gently) gave them truth about the cult that they could digest. At Marty's, they get trapped at Step 1. That's what bugs me about people like her going there. I hope she does get out, all the way out! Hopefully she'll be able to bring son, daughter-in-law and Heber along!

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors

Close

Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins