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Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Don Carlo Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Ex-CoS'ers tell outsiders that they must understand A B and C about insiders.
    The reverse is true. Ex-CoS'ers, please understand this when talking to outsiders (those who never joined CoS):

    We are appalled by crimes like fraud / extortion / illegal detention / wage theft, and concerned about wrongs like disconnection and forced abortions. When you spend many paragraphs on how this-is-not-an-audit-sec-checks are the most horrible thing ever, we don't get it.

    So, talk to other ex-Scientologists and (I approve) still-belonging-CoS-members all you like about how the auditing is not done right these days. But here with many outsiders reading your post, please explain how this can be used to bring down CoS.
  2. Optimisticate Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I can't wrap my head around how taking a tylenol every six hours made her sick, or was it to give the appearance of being sick? Her posts are discombobulated and don't make much sense, although they're probably extremely literate to anyone in the cult. This is one soap opera I really don't want to read about out of fear part of my brain will melt trying to understand WTF they're saying.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Ron said so. Stop questioning her beliefs you bigot.
  4. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I don't know. Perhaps taking one tylenol every six hours for three weeks straight while eating only one meal a day made her sick? I suspect that would do it for me.

    /
  5. Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I suspect she was taking Tylenol PM and having it knock her out every eight hours or so in order to feign sickness for three weeks. Normally your body builds a tolerance to it after a few days but I guess it worked for her.
  6. pooks Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    When I was a fully blinded Scientologist, I would never take any drug including an aspirin. What a dope I was for doing that. I would suffer through an ache or a pain and get a long Touch Assist, that did absolutely nothing, instead of taking some OTC pill, because as a Scientologist, I did not take any drugs and relied on the tek instead.

    Fuck that Shit. As a fully indoctrinated Scio I believed that taking a Tylenol was a bad thing and that they were bad for you because they "mixed up your pictures" or some kind of bullshit like that.

    Karen probably thought that taking a Tylenol was equal to taking an Oxycodone because in her Scio mind, all drugs are the same.

    If anyone needs an interpreter for all the Scio speak, just post what you don't understand and I or one of the other ex's will try to translate it into Wog speak.

    The Scn mindset is very different and you only get to see it in action when Scientologists talk to each other.

    Marty's blog is one of the few places where it's almost exclusively Scios talking with each other AND they allow public access to it. Most Scio discussion type groups have been heavily censored so they could only talk about good news and absolutely NO entheta.

    Marty's blog is a little natter board in it's own right. Scios in good standing do not talk openly or say critical things about the cult to one another. If they did, they'd end up writing KR's on themselves and each other.

    As to Karen, I don't know her but I'm very happy she's out as she apparently has some standing with the Elite Scn public, who are also the big donors to the cult.

    She's still very indoctrinated but as an Ex pointed out, getting out of Scn is not a one shot event. It's a long process. At least the woman has stepped onto the bridge out of the trap. Hopefully she'll fully come to her senses, but I wouldn't count on it. People with huge egos don't seem to go very far in the leaving process.
  7. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I think Karen is a pretty cool guy. Hse Ron rolls us and doesn't afraid of Tylenlols.

    Also, gross out tech FTW! (All of it grosses me out, but whatever.)
  8. blank Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

  9. Anonymous Member

  10. Lorelei Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    You've stumbled upon something here.

    Kinkaid's art lacks any deep meaning (unless you buy into the whole religious symbolism behind his obsession with yellow and white paint / "light"). They are illustrations, not fine art. They won't challenge you intellectually or cause you to think deeply about anything or show you something in a radically different visual language.

    Totalitarian art likewise ignores subtlety, preferring the use of heavy-handed symbolism and (frequently) TEXT on the art spelling out exactly what you should "get" from the piece. Again, more illustration than fine art. (One dimensional stuff, in the sense of having only one, obvious, interpretation, not in the sense of lacking forced perspective or similar techniques, though you do sometimes just see a head or torso or a solitary figure floating in space.) The message is enforced happiness and obedience to the "rules".

    Fine art should challenge you in some way intellectually, or build upon previous techniques to do something new and challenging. It is supposed to be full of ideas, and meaning (even if that meaning is forced or subverted), and it is meant to be interacted with, not absorbed as something colourful on a wall or something that matches your sofa.

    Kinkaid's ability to render a recognizable set of objects is decent. His trees and cottages look like trees and cottages, albeit strange, other-worldly faerie tale versions (and not in a good way). They are sentimentality and blind faith encapsulated in a banal, vapid image. They promote an unrealistic, glorified, "isn't that pretty?" view of landscapes and architecture and, from what I've seen, these worlds are completely devoid of humanity. If there is a Kinkaid painting out there that includes an obvious portrait of an individual human being, I'll be surprised, because I have never seen a single one. (My guess is that IF he has any humans in his art, they are as idealized and unrealistic as the rest of the objects in his paintings, and/or seen at a great distance.)

    To Kinkaid, the way the world actually looks is not enough, he has to flood landscapes with faked "light" tricks and unrealistic, exaggerated colours, and he has to also depopulate the universe.

    The thing you are picking up on is total disdain for human individuality. The thing cults hate most is a person who insists on thinking for him or herself and fact-checking every claim, and not being interested in what his or her peers think or believe. Cults hate uniqueness and individuality, and totalitarian art and Kinkaid art both ignore humans that might not fit into the party line and Disney-fied landscapes. Humanity is just supposed to be an ambulatory meat vehicle for storing and propagating certain approved ideas, working for God, Cult or Country, and making or acquiring new meat vehicles to infect with ideology and share labour. Individualists reject that role.

    But I digress.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am glad Karen is out. I wish her and her family well. I hope she can help them get out, too. I hope the usual "I have damaging info but I'm not telling it all right away" game isn't too prolonged, because I'm bored with that game now. I hope she does some independent research and finds out what her precious LRH did and what he was REALLY like, and that the tech is worthless. Reading "Ask The Scientologist," a blog by "JustBill," might help with that.

    Most exes need to take baby steps during the deprogramming phase, though. Only a very few "snap" out of it and spontaneously reject the cult wholesale, and they are likely to latch on to another one, because they fail to grasp how they got sucked in in the first place. IOW, they may spontaneously reject their cult, and think that that is enough, and never do any deep thinking about what happened to them. This lack of examination leaves them wide open for another con that pushes the same buttons that sucked them into the previous cult. Even more rare is the ex who "snaps" out of it and avoids immediately looking for something to fill in that void in his or her life.

    I'm just saying that some exes need more processing time and must take more baby steps than others, and the longer they have been "in," the longer the process typically takes (and perhaps it SHOULD take that long to unravel the web of bullshit and deception and to process it in digestible chunks). Trying to face the whole con head on right away has to be like trying to swallow an entire steak in one gulp: good luck with that, try not to choke on it.

    It is not coddling or being an apologist to suggest that someone who has been "in" might need a little time to see through ALL of the con. Getting them out in the first place helps; they will process the rest at the pace they are able to, I suspect. If some wind up being Indies for the rest of their lives, that is their choice, even if it is one I wouldn't ever make myself, knowing what we know, and even if I don't want to indulge delusional behavior, even if it is slightly less delusional because they are out of the Mother Cult. I harbour no ill will towards Indies, but I don't want to read LRH quotes or hear how auditing / LRH / the "tech" / other cult-related residual stuff / being "Clear" or "OT" is awesome, etc., becuase, to me, it is like indulging someone who thinks the earth is flat (HERE BE DRAGONS!) or that dinosaurs and humans coexisted (like on the Flintstones). I won't argue with them because they are already ignoring a lot of evidence that should be enough to prove their belief(s) wrong and I know what a waste of my time looks like when I see one. I'm not going to ever be close friends with someone who is that capable of ignoring logic and reality, though.
  11. Triumph Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Fly on The Wall: at the recording studio during the recording of "Road to Freedom"

    L Ron : I was Going for an Elvis Sound

    Engineer : it was just like him..you nailed it.

    L Ron : the Beatles will be envious when they hear this

    Musician :eek:h yea..L Ron it will be bigger than Sgt Peppers.

    L Ron : Sinatra can't even hit those notes.

    Janitor (mumbles) you suck..

    ****************************
    it will take time for Karen to decompress..longer if she spends time with Mike and Marty.
  12. Lorelei Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I don't know about a deprogramming-for-hire group per se, but this is stated, and explained, in "Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change" by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. Scientology commits the biggest mindfuck in the shortest time, and takes the longest to recover from, if you ever do.

    You can skim for Sci references by using the "Look Inside" tool at Amazon:

    [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Snapping-Americas-Epidemic-Sudden-Personality/dp/0964765004/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278018423&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change…[/ame]

    AFAIK, Conway and Siegelman do not do any deprogramming, they just did a scholarly examination of the cult / sect phenomenon.
  13. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    More from Karen:
    Jason Beghe made a comment:
    Oh, and Penny Krieger just got a nice big fat repayment check for her money on account at AOLA:
    *****************

    Translation of "theetie wheatie" for those who were never a Scientologist:
  14. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    So what's his deal, now? Is he going to try believing that the only reason he never saw a "clear" is Miscavige?
  15. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I think you may be reading far too much into it. I suspect (and all I can do is speculate and suspect given Jason's one
    word response to Karen's appearance) that Jason simply knows how well known and popular Karen is and the impact her public break on the COS will have on the scene. I cross-posted this because I thought it noteworthy that Jason took note. I don't recall having heard much from or about him lately.

    /
  16. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Karen on the fate of Shelly Miscavige and David Miscavige ordered divorces:
  17. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Karen on her last service at AOLA:
  18. Azazel Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    A friendly note:
    Please don't post were people live. It serves no purpose or contributes to the conversation. Especially someone that just left the church or possibly have left the church.

    Thank You! Have a Nice Day!
  19. timthephoto Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    has anyone mentioned to Karen about getting a refund? there's a lot of shitty paintings a person could buy with that sort of money
  20. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    ....or she could buy some awesome art by




    me!!

    ;-P
  21. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I don't know if anyone has, specifically. There is, however, the comment I quoted above from the lady who got the repayment of money on account from AOLA, and Karen is very good about reading and responding to people on the thread.

    But I will make the suggestion to her directly on Marty's blog, of course giving credit to you and WWP. Please forgive me, however, if I omit the comment about "shitty paintings." For some odd reason I think that might not be overly helpful. :)

    [As an aside, I can readily see how Karen does very well in sales. She responds nicely (Scientologists would say with "high ARC") to everyone who addresses her or wishes her well on the thread. She seems to be very popular and, indeed, well loved.]

    /
  22. Triumph Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    its like a "moth to flame"...

    flame.jpg

    won't possibly get burned again...
  23. timthephoto Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    forgiven :)
  24. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    The last sentence was the reason I asked; I was just curious if you'd seen some things from/about him recently to account for why we haven't heard more from him. Sounds like you don't know either, so we'll all just have to see.

    After his tremendous WBM interview, it would be a damn shame to see him fall back into brainwash mode with the MRs.

    And Karen's commentary is amazing. She's seen so many evils in organized Scientology, starting in the 1980s, yet was still FUNDING THOSE EVILS until now. Who created, in her, the INABILITY to recognize and correctly respond to the evil of David Miscavige, and the moral flaccidity to go along with it and indeed keep funding it for decades? It couldn't have been David Miscavige. So... who?
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    God I motherfucking hate Thomas Kinkade. This answers my question of what kind of scumbag actually likes this vile, vacuous painter. A fucking Scientologist, that's who. If you don't know who Thomas Kinkade is, well, you betta off.

    I'd rather put a triptych of Goatse, 1man1jar, and 3guys1hammer on my wall than a fucking Kinkade.
  26. OTBT Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    /r/ dox on LRH's Deterrent Formula. Never heard of this particular "Ethics Formula" before.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

  28. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    What are you, Source? "Rhetorical" is an adjective.

    Yes, of course it's rhetorical. It was written with her in mind. Questions work better than assertions when trying to open a closed mind(set), and open-ended questions work better than leading questions. I suppose my question was a bit leading (heheh), but it was a question. Obviously WWPers already know the answer, but Karen needs to arrive at it.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    What makes you a better person than someone that enjoys a Thomas Kincaid painting?
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Consider the fact that--that is his artistic style. Why can you not accept that? If you do not enjoy his art, just look away. Perhaps you are the one with the problem, and you have to have something to 'search' for within a painting and cannot just enjoy the scene.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I don't know about better, but... A functioning frontal cortex?
  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Okay, I like to spell his name phonetically...so sue me. I do not understand all you Kinkade haters. Give it up guys, create an anti-Kinkade forum, and bitch about him all day. Keep it on topic, guys.
  33. Lorelei Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Also, good taste.

    Kinkaid's paintings are empty pieces of fluff marked mostly by an overuse of white and yellow paint which depict a world of vapid greeting card imagery where all human beings have been Raptured away. It's banal.

    It's OK if you like it, it's OK if you SELL it, even, if you must, but it is ILLUSTRATION, not fine art. Live with it. Liking bad art doesn't make you a bad person, just a person with unrefined taste and an uneducated eye.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Are you mad because there are not persons in his paintings?
  35. Lorelei Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Of course not.
  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Okay. You keep saying things like the people have been "raptured away" in his paintings. I have no idea what that means in this context. Sounds to me like you have an issue with something other than the art.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    "My God, it's full of BTs!" - Dave Bowman
  38. Lorelei Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    I used "Raptured away" exactly once, and it was a jokey way to refer back to something I already explained. Previously, I discussed why I mentioned the lack of people in the first place. No need to cut and paste, it's still right there, a few posts back.

    I have a problem with insipid art getting marketed / sold as "fine art", but no personal problem with people who choose to like it, sell it, or buy it. I disagree with their taste, emphatically, but they have a right to like, buy and display crappy art if they like it and think it is nice. Or if it matches their couch. People are allowed to like pictures that are, in their opinion, simply pretty. Calling these paintings "fine art," however, is a HUGE stretch.

    He didn't invent the style, either. Almost identical artwork can be found in thrifts--apparently a very similar style was particularly a hit with 1970s hotel chains--but without the cachet of the Kinkaid brand attached, and perhaps with slightly less "light" / yellow and white paint. Clearly SOME people like the style; that has never been disputed. I'll bite my tongue a bit if he ever gets a retrospective at MOMA or the Tate or the High (etc.) and when people who know their shit in the art world embrace his oeuvre, but I won't ever LIKE it or change my mind about not liking it, as that is my opinion. (Tiny galleries, no matter how charming they may be, are not the same as world-respected art galleries, just to make that distinction clear.) I can explain some of the reasons WHY I hold my particular negative opinion, out of courtesy, and not just say "it sucks," but that doesn't mean that other people aren't free to think otherwise.

    Anyway, we're getting off-topic--the topic being "Karen De la Carriere has blown and is being very chatty about her experiences in the cult"--and you seem to be taking my expressions of distaste a bit too personally. Hurting anyone's feelings by simply expressing an opinion was not my intention, despite any colourful phrasing I may have chosen.
  39. Holl Anon Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Regardless, he has proven success as an artist. There was even a TV movie made on his life, co-starring a Scientology actor.

    Christmas Cottage (2008) (V)
  40. Kha Khan Member

    Re: Karen De la carriere/Jentzsch blows the cult.

    Personally, I never tell "outsiders" that they "must" understand A, B and C about insiders. I explain what I can in the hope it will be interesting or useful.

    When I cross-post I tend not to comment on abuses, such as coercion, disconnection, forced abortions, illegal detention, etc., that everyone understands whether they were ever a member of the COS. I don't think such commentary is necessary or adds to the discussion.

    If I add commentary about why or how the tech is not being done right or is being abused from a "Scientological" perspective, I do so for three reasons. The first two were touched on above.

    First, some people find it interesting.

    Secondly, some people find it useful in talking to Scientologists. If the subject of Karen comes up at a protest, and the handler's response is that she was just an SP anyway, and you respond -- "Did you know they forced her to undergo an 'I am not auditing you' sec check on her clear declaration?? -- that could have a real impact. Maybe not immediately. And the handler won't want to admit it, but I really think there is a good chance that it will cause the handler to have doubts. To perhaps later think, "You know what, I always heard good things about Karen. To have her state of clear invalidated in that way! Damn, no wonder she left." In short, knowledge is power.

    Finally, you might be surprised how many official Church of Scientology Scientologists lurk here. One contacted me by pm on ESMB yesterday. (He is not the first one.) He has a family disconnection situation and is very afraid of being discovered. He has never posted on ESMB or here. Most importantly, he wrote specifically to thank me for my posts here. (I find it interesting that he contacted me by pm on ESMB and not here.) He is reading here, as well as ESMB. So when I post about the tech being abused, even if only in Scientological terms, I'm trying to communicate to those COS lurkers.

    /

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