Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by mnql1, Apr 27, 2011.
I certainly don't want to bash Minton or Stacy Brooks. I would just like to add one overall observation: Up until 1997, the a.r.s. critics scene appeared to me a highly diverse, but unified international group of people. It was almost as a tiny predecessor version of the anonymous movement. I remember well, when Jeff Jacobsen addressed this phenomenon - us as this highly diverse group from all over the world - at a lunch or a dinner in Clearwater at the Lisa McPherson picket in 1997.
Then everything changed, slowly but gradually, as soon as the Minton money started to flow in. Rifts appeared and within a year or two, the critics scene was divided. I don't know if it would have happened without him or not, but Minton definitely polarized the critics.
I would have more to say about the LMT, but I leave it at that.
For those unfamiliar with Martin Ottman:
The Martin Ottmann Documents Web Site: Exposing Scientology
1997 Conference, Germany
Oh well. That was in 1991. And there was a big "flap" at the Flag Service Organization. A "public squirrel" was allowed on the FSO service lines and even received auditing. Somehow, the Scientology management in Los Angeles and Hemet got wind of it and soon enough, IG Ethics RTC Mark "Marty" Rathbun flew in to sort out the mess at the FSO.
He had a temporary office at the HCO at the Coachman building from where he would send out his orders and where he would study documents. He had all these minor CMO messengers working for him, who would walk, run out and into his office, executing his orders. That was the surreal thing. I am talking about 12 or 13-year-old boys and girls who would execute his orders and whom you had to address with "Sir". As I was regularly in the HCO office at that time, I could observe the steady flow of these kids running in and out of his office.
And oh boy, he was pissed. He stayed only one single day, but he axed several staff members. I don't remember how many were assigned to the RPF, but I remember one in particular: the so-called "Public Master-At-Arms", the Ethics Officer for the public Scientologists, Wanda Quinones. As she was well-known to the public, Debbie Cook, the Captain FSO later instructed us to tell any public Scientologist inquiring about her whereabouts - as she was from then on on the RPF and effectively disappeared from the public - that she was on full-time training.
Tactically I suspect Minton's money was a week spot. I am sure he and everyone else thought how great, we can bank role fights. I think the COS knew if it could get him it could kill the fights he funded. I love the fact with Anonymous we help each other out where we can and when we see fit like with Sparrow. The cult can not locate the source of money because it is often given anonymously. I hate to say it size does matter and yes it sounds like you guys had a mini Anonymous back then but after 2008 the cuts head is spinning. PS thank you Martin for being there and fighting all this time, I hope you see your efforts are paying off
LOL! I was fed that lie about Wanda. Amazing. I wonder if Wanda is still in. Hopefully not.
Thanks for the story. I always enjoyed your posts on ars. I used to post there as Cerridwen.
I had no idea you were that good looking!
maybe some people on ARS were wrong,
but I think you really spent too much time with the wrong people in Scientology.
I believe they are even more wrong than a.r.s. if you can imagine that!
Wow, I met Wanda before she disappeared. Thanks for the info.
Saying that she was "on full-time training" was true. Sort of.
Hence "acceptable truth". The cult's definition of lying.
I guess you have a point.
The moment it is money involved (particularly if there's big money as in this case), the rules change. Imagine your neigbour asks if you can help him with something, and he offers a few beers and some pizza as compensation. Now, imagine the same situation, only this time he offers money in stead. Would you still want to help him?
Thanks. I remember you. That photo is from 1998. A memory from my a.r.s. heydays. Now I am old and grey.
Hmm, I regret having spent all this money for this worthless shit, but the time spent in the Sea Org was worthwhile for my further personal development. And luckily I didn't socialize with the big criminals inside Scientology.
It depends on the amount he would offer me. Mowing the lawn and as a compensation he is paying my legal fees in my divorce proceedings?
I'm sure Minton was not happy with your reporting him to the IRS...
54, rue Pierre Brossolette
92300 Levallois- Perret, France
Internal Revenue Service
Tampa Field Office
Sheila W. Geer
9450 Koger Blvd., Suite 101
Saint Petersburg, Florida U.S.A.
November 20th, 2002
Re: Federal Citizen Complaint against Church of Scientology and Robert Minton;
Dear Ms. Geer,
as you might remember, on February 25th, 2002 I have filed with the U.S. Attorneys Offices in Los Angeles, California and Tampa, Florida a citizen complaint against various entities and officials of the Church of Scientology, alleging several violations of U. S. Title 18. Both offices notified me to have forwarded this information to the IRS CI Division in Los Angeles and to your office.
On July 22nd, I expanded the complaint by including other Scientology entities and the individual Robert S. Minton for his laundering of money into the United States.
Since then I have not heard from you again. Last week, on November 13th, I was notified that an anonymous individual has posted my name and your name on the Internet in connection with my complaint against Robert Minton. I called your office during the afternoon on the same day and informed a colleague of yours about the public disclosure of your name.
Your colleague stated that you would call me back. I have not received any message from you or from your office since then. On November 16th, the anonymous person again posted a message on the Internet, at this time citing excerpts from my complaint from February 25th and indicating that, because of my investigative actions concerning Scientology, the legal safety of a befriended family of mine, which is living in Ohio, might be endangered.
Since then two more Internet messages with similar contents appeared, posted on November 17th and 19th. I regard these postings as attempts by the anonymous poster to silence and intimidate me. I hope that I do not have to stress the fact that since I had filed the complaints in February and July of this year, I did not divulge the information contained in them to neither the Church of Scientology, to Robert Minton nor any other person, whom I do not consider absolutely trustworthy. Nor has anyone received copies of the complaints besides the mentioned government agencies.
I do not have any knowledge about whether and how you have acted upon my complaint since you have written me on May 6th, stating that my complaint was being reviewed by your Lead Development Center. But the fact that your name was cited in these postings on the Internet make it appear to me that someone from your office voluntarily or involuntarily disclosed information to the concerned parties.
With this letter I am asking your for an explanation as to how it may have been or was in fact possible that my confidential information about certain alleged criminal activities, which I trustfully had forwarded to the U. S. government, is now being used to intimidate me and to threaten the well-being of a family, non-related to this whole matter. Such scenarios I only know from friends stories who have lived in countries like Brazil or Mexico, where the level of corruption in the public sector is rampant.
I considered the contents of my complaint as substantial evidence for the illegal activities of the Church of Scientology, although I was not sure whether you or any other U. S. agency would actually act upon. Nevertheless I did not expect that one day this complaint would be used by a third party against me. I can assure you that I do not consider this matter lightly, knowing what the Church of Scientology has done to others who had opposed this organization.
Enclosures: Anonymous Internet Postings from November 13th, 16th, 11th & 19th.
cc: - M.I.L.S., Paris, France;
- Ministere de la Justice, Brussels, Belgium;
- Kultusministerium Baden-Wuerttemberg, Stuttgart, Germany;
- American Embassy, Legal Attache, Paris, France;
- Federal Bureau of Investigation, Field Office Tampa, Tampa, Florida, USA;
- Internal Revenue Service, CID Field Office, Los Angeles, California, USA;
- Clearwater Police Department, Clearwater, Florida, USA;
I didn't report him to the IRS. I filed two reports/citizen complaints with three US Attorney offices. Two of them (US Attorney office in Los Angeles and Tampa) decided to forward these complaints to the IRS. The above letter was a response to a letter that the IRS originated. Of course I never got a reponse to that letter from November 2002.
How the whole thing ended up in the hands of either the Minton camp and/or the CoS is still a mystery to me. When I realized that the complaints were in the hands of the wrong people, I put everything on a.r.s.
At the May 3, 2011 meeting of the Riverside County Board of Supervisors, AnonOrange read an excerpt from this "finale" entry in Jesse Prince's blog about how Scientology corrupts law enforcement:
Scientology: May 3, 2011 How Scientology Corrupts Law Enforcement
Meanwhile I was trying to stand by a friend (bob) who had saved my life, and many others, by trying to save him from being induced to suicide....by those now calling him scum. and re asking Haney for money, the topic came up after the Zwan settlement, Brian Haney had told Bob that he would help fund the LMT, and then reneged...when Bob asked Brian to keep his promise to finance the LMT out of the Zwan settlement... turns out in Haney's settlement. Haney signed, there was a list of names of people he could never give money to... which included the LMT, Robert Minton, various anti cult lawyers, and the real old guard including my name.... this was after his wife transferred all Bob's US cash out of their joint account, after she got a telephone call, saying "Bob and Stacy slept in your bed last night" (in Boston), around the time Bob said he would have to close the LMT.
In previous writings I have described a criminal case against bob for perjury that he escaped on a technicality. (this was days before he decided to recant - and was when Bob sort of saw G-d... My critics claimed this was "all les" because, they said vociferously and repeatedly.. BUT it never appeared in the docket in Clearwater court house. because the criminal case for perjury was brought in Boston US federal Court (in hopes of seizing his Boston assets) and then remanded by the FEDERAL judge to the STATE court for trial...'cause that's where the case docs where... thats why it did not appear on the docket in Clearwater (STATE) court.
Bob's lawyer Jonas, explained that under Florida state law, if a person recants all perjuries in a case before the case is ended, he cannot be found guilty of CRIMINAL PERJURY. Bob called me before he recanted... crying that he had to recant the perjuries.
As Bob Minton, an investment banker, realized he would now have to go back to work AS an investment banker, he could NOT have a felony conviction, which would make him uneligible to be one.
Dire Straits indeed...
Nota bene: See the Titchbourne / Christofferson OSA EVAL on Gerry's site, it states quite clearly to "bring sufficient pressure to bear to TRICK the target into thinking that they have to LIE (on a matter of no consequence) and then go after them for the perjuries.." Strangely the one man who was most familiar with these tactics who was still in the game was Gerry Armstrong, had been previously, viciously kookified by the same band of not-so-brights who are now calling me names, the same band that claimed bob sold out, viciously attacking Bob... while I stood by him to keep my old friend and brother in arms from committing suicide.
Scientology was indicted in Spain in 1994 for amongst other things "Inducement to suicide"
and I am not at all surprised at the timing of the spat of attacks upon my character, as 30 days ago I accepted a position on the board of a cult victim assistance organization..
For the actual facts, try reading what the only judge who ever read the entire McPherson case file wrote.
It's certainly more informative than reading the pathetic ramblings of a bug-eyed lunatic.
Children, please play nice in the sandbox or I'll have to take away your toys. There's no need for ad hominem attacks, k?
I loved the (clueless) judge's comments..
"Ms. Monique Yingling, the only other witness who testified before me, and who might know the truth about any blackmail and extortion is a noted member of both the California and D.C. Bar. I found her testimony to be quite credible, and do not believe for a moment she would jeopardize her license to practice law by lying, committing extortion, blackmail, or allowing anyone in her presence to do so.
Neither, Mr. (Sandy) Rosen, nor Mr. Rinder testified before me, so I have no basis to judge their credibility. However, if Mr. Rinder has done what has been attributed to him, including offering money for perjured affidavits, his credibility is certainly suspect. Perhaps after I have had the opportunity to work with Mr. Rosen, who has recently become the Church's chief trial counsel, I will have an opportunity to personally assess his credibility. I will note, however, that when I inquired, pursuant to his Motion to be admitted pro hac vice in the wrongful death case, I heard nothing from other judges who had worked with him on cases before them which would suggest that he would be involved in such scurrilous activity. This is all I intend to say in this Order about extortion or blackmail."
Can't you og's fuck off and take this drama with you.
The og drama made esmb asplode
ESMB assploded long before any og's posted there. Now, it's a haven of LRH zealot mindfucks who hate the dwarf.
I mean it literally is down right now.
Emma's doing maintenance.
bump for a recent news from Jesse on his blog:
For those who heard about Jesse's sudden battle with cancer, seems he's somewhat back on his feet and between rounds of chemo. Thus the expanded/polished version of getting his first informally written book published as a properly copyedited e-book manuscript was temporarily set on the side burner. But fwiw - it's my most important #1 project to finish once Jesse is up to the task.
And on ^^that note - I suspect we will eventually need an artfag to do Jesse some proper coverart images for both his books. So if any of you oh so talented shoopers would be interested in lending your artist skillz to the project when the time comes, please PM me.
Thanks for update, AL. Hope he recovers quickly from his second round.
Thank you for quantifying us so accurately. Not.
I like those poofier ones. Guanacos?
What does it pay?
Snow White was on drugs. She slept thru the whole thing.
Fuuuu- you're tellin' me!
I'm sure it wouldn't have suffered a schism without the LMT. I recall some CW event where Bob was buying tickets for critics to fly out there, and people were all, "You should go! Just ask Bob!"
No. I would not ask Bob. I wasn't sure wtf they thought they were doing with picket chicken and all that. I didn't agree with some stuff, and thought giving the cult an organization to attack was a bad idea. Then came the rift, and it became downright unpleasant on IRC and ARS.
People made up funny names for the sides, Lermites vs. Mintonistas. It got stoopid. I tried to ignore it. That wasn't hard, considering my location. I have no fond memories of all that bullshit.
It's a labor of love babe, and I'm fishing for a volunteer to do one or two artfag showpiece works for free...
in light of Jesse's medical dilemmas, i figure there is no sense wasting any of his limited donos on the easy peasy stuff of getting him a publishable manuscript prepped when the wwp hivemind has an abundance of artfag skillz to spare on lulzy things - surely we got some artfag <3 to lend on the oh-so-exploitable things too.
dox, please. I believe all we have is anecdotal evidence.
What brave people those guys are.
After reading that it has become even more apparent to me what Voltaire says:
"people that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
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