Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by TinyDancer, May 30, 2011.
LOL here's hoping! I love it when stupid clams use 4chan memes to encourage suicide.
Anyway - lots of Jan Eastgate signs at the next raids PLOX !!
For the LULZ
Of course, if any of them are parents it would deeply shit them. Saying that it's the kids fault is like saying a rape victim is at fault because she wore a short skirt. I daresay any parent in the jury would go "You fucking cold-hearted vile bitch" for even considering that it was the victims fault because she was bad in a past life.
I'd say it would go to the defendants state of mind. Though it could be argued that it shows her attempts to get Carmen to simply go "Well, it was my fault cause I was bad in a past life so I'll be quiet" which would then be perverting the course of justice.
But no, I wouldn't say emotional injury is involved in perverting the course of justice as then you could argue that emotional suffering as a result of any crime is perverting the course of justice. While the actions were in keeping with their practices, this is not the view of the broader community. I don't doubt for a second that this will get brought up.
Absolutely untrue. It laid out as you say the general principles of defamation law. That is all that is needed to file a case. As I said she would need to prove that as you say statement involve harm to the plaintiff's reputation. Or that she suffered hard as a result of it and the other party knew that such a false statement would or might cause harm. I stand by what I said. In fact I know personally someone who sued someone in the past for denying something that was true. The person believed it cost them a job. The judge said that he agreed that the defendant knew they were lying and meant to sabotage this persons chances of getting a job. What happened is that this guy was accused of stealing at work by this manager and fired. The Co did an investigation and found that he did not steal the money. Later on the plaintiff went to look for another job as he did not want his old job back. The company offered for him to come back but he still had to work for that manager I guess they believed the manager made a mistake in good faith. He was not rehired as a result of refusing to come back. This guy applied to another company and explained the situation during the interview. They said it would not be an issue if they could validate what he said was true. They called the old company and the first person they spoke to was the manager that fired him. It went something like this as I recall. (Was XXX fired?, YES. He said he was fired then found to be innocent is that true?, NO. He sounds very convincing on this?, He would but I refute totally that he was innocent.) Now maybe the manager still believed he was right, who knows but this guy believed he it was intentional. As I said it was enough for him to sue the guy for costing him the job and the judge totally agreed with him. The issue he had is when it came to damages. The judge said because no salary had ever been agreed too during the interview and that there was no guarantee how long he would have worked there or that they had mad him a firm offer he could not prove specific damages. He gave the guy court coast and lectured the manager bla bla bla.
The site you found carries no more authority than anything I've posted here and is profoundly unhelpful with regard to answering the question of whether that is all that is needed to file a (presumably non-frivolous) case, especially given that I've provided you with the actual authority that would be relied upon by a court in Australia. Perhaps the First District Court of Free Advice might find it helpful but not real courts.
Further, your anecdote is hardly analogous to the facts here, as it would obviously qualify as actionable under subsection (b) of the Australian definition, given that the false statement pertained to the likelihood of injury to the plaintiff's profession or trade.
Who is 'Scott?' and why are you using his name?
He might but I doubt it. You just said I was talking about civil proceedings and that is exactly what I meant, to sue in civil court. I am not nor have I eluded to proper legal precedent for winning a case but filing a charge. What I am talking about is a Prima Fecia case to make the charge. It is up to the plaintiff to prove their case in court. 100% of the time there will be a party that thinks it is unfair what the judge decides because someone will loose. I never said that they could or would win a case. What I said is if they can successfully argue that the comments that Jan and the COS said were knowingly false, intentionally harmful and caused damages they have a case. This is not some mystic cryptic thing in law that is beyond the understanding of they lay person. As from the wrong jurisdiction I corrected myself on that and at that point I was taking about the criminal side not this topic of civil law. All the same this debate is derailing the thread and I don't want to detract from the fact that Jan is getting hers. Anyone can feel free to continue to tell me I am wrong on this topic and that is fine but with the arguments currently made just except that I will never agree to it.
Now on to better things.
Largest libel award in Canada (Defamation) Against Scientology
I would Love to jump into this defamation arguement, but I can't because of pending law suits against
the COS/NN TR, to be filed soon. Don't want to tip our hand.
It's common for them to walk a fine line and often FootBullet themselves. It's easy to begin a law suit,
but proving damages and amounts is another task indeed.
The return of Al Buttnor
You provided nothing and I am starting to get the feeling you are an ego maniac. You personally don't get to decide what the basic elements of the law are. As to the merits of any case that is what we have courts for. My antidote is exactly relevant because it was exactly what we are talking about here. A case where just by denying a true statement someone got sued over it. Yes there was a history behind it just as there is in the case we are talking about.
The incident happened how long ago? I don't know Aussie law but if that had occurred in the U.S., Eastgate would not have been arrested in the first place due to the statute of limitations. I suspect Eastgate will agree to a plea deal of some sort with the agreement with the prosecutor to keep the details confidential.
another instance of sexual abuse of a minor covered up by scientologists in mexico
There's also dox on police complaints filed by Cesar.
Paul Schofield’s case is another one I would like to see charges and suits filed over. What that man and his family went through is nothing less than evil. There has to be wrongful death complaints in there someplace?
Wut? *eyeroll* Physician, heal thyself.
American article from yesterday, if not already posted:
Also mentions Carly Crotchfield and "Tom Cruse", whoever that is.
^^damn beat me to it... here's hoping we can soon be done with the hypothetical and irrelevant derail over defamation that has absolutely nothing to do with the charges currently pending.
Here is a group that people should reach out to.
They deal with survivors of pastoral sexual abuse. I think they should be brought in on the long lines of abuse at the hands of Scientology.
More poon sites
Each of them should at least do a email alert.
A shit load of sites here.
Yeah, time to move on to painfully anal detail about the Aussie equivalent of 'pain & suffering'.
I still think that the damage is done and even acquittal won't stop people from associating the CCHR & darling Jan-teh-Man with a molestation scandal. Exhibit A: Michael Jackson. "Oh, and isn't the Something Something on Human Rights a $cientology thing?"
As if bleating crazedly about "The Psychs" causing the Holocaust weren't enough of a turnoff to the average human.
You are correct, any news that puts eyes on the CCHR and their insane rants will harm them. Just the news on this will have people looking at them under a glass. I suspect they wont like what they see.
I fully expect this latest development to haunt and torment "the most ethical people on the planet" forever.
Which is good. From a sickening situation, we have ammunition to seriously enturbulate the remaining clams without any effort at all.
Are you a lawyer, or are you just playing one online?
Unrelated but neat timing:
(Short piece: Jason Beghe accused of battery, dated yesterday, mentions Co$)
Related and dumb: "I read about Jan Eastgate's arrest. I give her the benefit of the doubt because p$ychs target CCHR and she is its president." --from ILoveMyOriginalMartyBlog
Preposed open letter, feel free to add and clean in up
An open letter to any group that deals with child abuse and or child sex abuse. This letter is to inform you about a well documented history of abuse against children in the Church of Scientology and the growing number of victims now speaking out. Currently a major Scientology figure by the name of Jan Eastgate was arrested in Australia for helping to cover up a sex abuse case of a child in the 1980’s. To make matters worse Jan heads a Scientology front group called Citizens Commission on Human Rights. She claims to be an advocate for human rights while the main goal of the CCRH is to eradicate all Psychiatry on earth. Being that victims of abuse often need intense the help of that field it is particularly egregious she was directly involved. Sadly Jan is not alone in her cover-ups of child abuse at the hands of Scientology. I am listing links to reports and first hand accounts of abuse below. It should also be pointed out that Scientology is particularly prone to child abuse as their founder stated in effect adults in little bodies. They are often given adult responsibilities and help accountable as adults. To give you an idea of how children are seen in scientology I will point out one account from the Niece of the current head of scientology when she said children as young as six years old haul heavy rocks all day at one of their labor camps. If children are viewed as adults then why would sex be excluded? Some current documented abuses are
1. Jan Eastgate arrested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goh0oTC7SyA
2. Paul Scofield’s daughters killed in two separate incidents at Scientology locations http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2009/11/5-paul-schofields-letter.html
3. A Statement from Tommy Gorman on the rape of his girlfriend http://www.lermanet.com/tomgorman/tommygorman.htm
4. A group of ex Scientology kids with their own site talking about the abuses they suffered http://exscientologykids.com/
5. Jenna Miscavige talking about the abuse she suffered at the hands of the cult http://exscientologykids.com/
6. Documented abuses against children in Scientology http://www.skeptictank.org/childcos.htm
7. Labor abuses of children in Scientology http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTE8jPRUeP0
8. Interview about how children are seen as adults http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyJ58NoSuU
9. Amy Scobee was raped at age 14 in Scientology http://free-from-scientology.blogspot.com/2010/05/former-scientologist-amy-scobee.html
10. A 2010 child abuse report in Scientology, has rape allegations and police reports. http://www.scribd.com/doc/30247728/Scientology-Child-Abuse-Report-2010
This the amount of convictions and a written policy to attack critics that speak out I might add your organization is needed in the fight to give these people voices.
There are no limitations on undiscovered fraud.
Wow, that's an intelligent statement there. Like saying a gold bar is worthless because it is buried under 10 feet of dirt.
Could you please explain what you mean rather than use a metaphor?
"There are no limitations on undiscovered fraud."
Well, duh, if a crime has yet to be discovered, there'd be no statute of limitations because statutes only apply to criminal acts that are known to have occurred. A gold bar is worthless if it is buried.
You are awesome, thank you
Oh you're so sexy when you drop dox bb.
Adding 11. The story Daniel Montalvo of how parents signed him over to Scientology where he was used as slave labor and mutilated by Scientology. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/03/daniel_montalvo_1.php
These are email poons for child advocates
email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, %firstname.lastname@example.org, %email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, BirdsongOrg@gmail.com, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, SNAPdorris@gmail.com, SNAPblaine@gmail.com, SNAPClohessy@aol.com, SNAPVirginia@cox.net, SNAPVirginia@cox.net, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, RaleighSNAP@gmail.com, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, Richard@HGRConstructioninc.com, SNAP.Florida.email@example.com, SNAP.Florida.firstname.lastname@example.org, SNAPdorris@gmail.com, SNAPdorris@gmail.com, LawrenceMullen@comcast.net, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, David_lorenz@verizon.net, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, theMichaelCullen@yahoo.com, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, SNAPcny@yahoo.com, SNAP.email@example.com, SNAPoutreach@optonline.net, ProdigalSon911@gmail.com, Mcaplan682@aol.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com,
I wish you were right but so far most people in Europe and the US haven't heard about this.
Fuck off Doris, this is serious business.
Don't be a cock blocker bro.
anyone can scrawl illegibly on their chest in black eyeliner,
but droppin dox on cult crimes is
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