Is joking about rape acceptable or unacceptable? Discuss here

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anonymous, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Ok, Of course I am willing to defer to your experience, particularly helping those victimised. However as stated For me personally, it was an important aspect in my own recovery. So I accept its just my own particular psychological makeup that made this so.
  2. Anonymous Member

    But just to be crystal clear, I was never suggesting jokes about rape itself, more about dickless wonder rapists. but concede and defer to your better informed judgement.
  3. RavenEyes Member

    It's not a contest, and I was concerned that dickless wonders, whether rapists or not, would be too cowardly to stand up and say enough is enough. :) Lots of cowards around here. Thanks for being brave and sharing your survival story! <3
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  4. RavenEyes Member

    Rape jokes can trigger. It doesn't mean a survivor needs to go out and get (more) help. It means that if you all say you want to help end the rape culture that pervades our society, you gotta hit it at all angles, including rape jokes. Rape/sexual assault is a crime that is rather unique. It is often a precursor for many maladies, including eating disorders, cutting, suicide, continuing the rape/sexual assault cycle by perpetrating a similar act on someone else, body dysmorphic disorder, bedwetting, depression, PTSD, and the list goes on. Does it mean each survivor will experience one or more of these by-products? No. But, unlike many other types of crime victims, there is a common experience known as "trauma triggering". Many academic articles, media reports, blogs, etc. written will be prefaced by a "warning" that the subsequent information/musings might cause a triggering effect on a survivor.

    NO rape/sexual assault survivor will be able to predict what, if anything, would cause a trigger until it happens. It does NOT mean they need to go get help.

    There is a lot of information on the internet. Educate yourselves. One of three women and one of four men will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime. That's a lot of wwp members to discount in order to make anonymous posts like I RAPE YOU LOLZ.

    Perhaps I misspoke when I said rape jokes aren't healing, since it's what was honed in on. It's a complicated topic, so I encourage you to educate yourself on it further, if you're so inclined.

    FWIW, it took more than 20 years before out of the blue, before something "triggered" me. You don't know it's going to happen, you don't know what might cause it, and - in my case - I hadn't even thought about my situation for many years until I was triggered. It's not that I was repressing anything. It's not that I needed psychological services. Like I said - it's a crime with unique outcomes.

    There is someone who used to frequent this forum and is well-known on the internets who used to make rape jokes. Then, said person was raped and now is very outspoken against rape jokes and couldn't pay any attention to the Steubenville case because of the huge amount of triggering it caused. I will reach out to the person to see if s/he can return to help some understand what I'm trying to explain. If my posts bother anyone, I'm sorry - please put me on ignore and move on. I promise I won't be offended. :) I've put myself out there to try to help. <3
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  5. Anonymous Member

    We're not all entirely ignorant.

    If you're hoping that this section of the forum can be - and can remain - free of any possible 'triggers' for rape victims, then (IMO) you're likely to be disappointed. It's not (IMO) an achievable (or even a desirable) goal.

    Not achievable because of the nature of the Internet, of Anonymous and of WWP.

    Not desirable because we're going to be discussing rape. I don't see how we can do that without the inclusion of what will be (for some people) 'triggers'.

    Also, I think that if we spend all our time on policing the statements of other Anons here on an internet message board, we're not likely to get much done which is meaningful. Which would be a shame.
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  6. rof Member

    You are just a twitchy bitch who kicks and screams to get her way.

    Shut up and take it like a man.
  7. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Getting help can mitigate or delay a trigger event from occurring. However, there is no 100% certainty as one size doesn't fit all in these traumatic events. Basically: Getting help won't stop the "trigger" but it can dull or "take the edge off" of a trigger incident.

    WWP shouldn't be mistaken for professional help, neither should anybody assume this is an attempt to become such. All that can be done here is:
    1. Bring to light situations like what happened in Steubenville.
    2. Gather a list of sites that can direct victims to help sites.
    3. Protest mobilization in events like Steubenville.
    4. Bring to light the facts that Rape has become a culture that needs both eradicated and brought to the world's discussion.
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  8. mongrel Member

    Hey guys, sorry I'm late to the party. Just wanted to share an interesting factoid that I came across today. Apparently careful research has discovered that 4 out of 5 people actually enjoy gang rape.
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  9. Anonymous Member

    Now thats interesting, I (survivor) find that joke amusing. others perhaps not so much. The question is what is a joke gone to far, and what is not. I suspect this perhaps may have crossed.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Comment rating works and it helps people. Plus we can rate unfunny humor on a scale of 1-10 then move on.
    There is going to be a lot of Mongrels here.
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  11. Anonymous Member

    4/10 actually now fuck off and die.
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  12. Anonymous Member
  13. Anonymous Member
  14. Anonymous Member

    gallows humor (resilience) vrs humor as a weapon

    It's hard to do it right unless you ARE being resilient. Don't try, k?
  15. Anonymous Member

    Being in it's own forum would mean it can be ignored as a whole using the site's preferences. Useful only for those who can't resist rape jokes if a thread is visible to them.
  16. mongrel Member

    Now that's the spirit! Laugh in the face of danger. Ridicule those who would mock you. Live your life as if you own it, because you do!

    My name has never felt more appropriate. I thank you :)

    Nice job of using the X/10 to parlay one joke into another. Upvote for you!

    Today I learned a new phrase. Interesting. Also, I like how you tell people to not even try. Quit. Give up. You're broken, might as well be dead.

    On a final note, and as others have already stated, this place is not a hugbox. Sure, it's much more huggy than the beginning. But this is definitely not the place to send anyone who needs real emotional support. If you know someone who needs that, I would suggest Pandora's Project. They have separate forums for survivors, family members, spouses, etc. And the personal story forums are segregated to try and weed out the sick pervs who get off on that.
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  17. Malory Member

    Remember that whole freedom of speech thing we used to be about? That includes being able to make jokes about anything. I don't like censorship, even when it takes the form of shame-shaming someone's sense of humour.
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  18. pee

  19. Malory Member

    Yeah. That shit doesn't work with me.

    Now here's the thing. I choose not to go on rape support forums and post jokes because I choose not to be an asshole in that particular manner.

    On the other hand I'll joke about whatever I damned well like. You want this initiative to work? Start by educating teens but you'll get nowhere by acting like a prissy headmistress who's channeling the thought police.
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  20. Ugh huh. Bullshit. Hey, look at this thread -
    Nothing prissy about calling out rapists, amirite? Socks to be a sock.
  21. Anonymous Member

    This is IMHO an excellant solution to perpetually debating joke/no joke here.
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  22. TMOT Member

    FFS, no one is channeling the thought police. Just don't be an asshole and let's get on with the matter at hand.

    As to rape victims finding their way here - LOL. One in three women and an unfortunately unknown number of men have been the victim of an attempted or completed sexual assault. They/we are ALREADY HERE. And we've decided to do something about it.

    So if this doesn't interest you, kindly piss off. There is a lot of other reading material available on the internet.
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  23. Malory Member

    See? This is the problem with you cunts. Dare to voice a different opinion and you start with the moralfag screeching.

    You're like the damned Occupiers - you want Anon to be your personal army but you want to change the fundamentals and mould it into whatever suits your particular cause. Well all you're going to end up with is a failed initiative that fades into a background of blandness.

    Nobody was trolling you on here and yet the very fucking moment you get a toehold all I see is ranting that jokes are bad and even contribute to the rape culture.

    You want to make a difference? Go do something instead of wasting your time trying to censor people and indulging in circlejerks.

    Have I made any rape jokes in this section? No I haven't. Am I questioning a group of smug cunts about restricting freedom of expression? Yes, yes I am so if it doesn't interest you then why don't you kindly piss off somewhere you can dictate who challenges you.
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  24. Anon_CG3(ITA) Global Moderator

    Yes i know somes about occupyers. . .using anonymous like a brand. . . And if don't agree? You're shit :D
  25. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Let me see if I can clarify a couple things:

    First and very foremost: I can only speak for myself, but rest assured: I'm not going to monitor and destroy all jokes that fall in this section. Only time I'd take action is if:
    1. The jokes, as in more than a reasonable number but not one or two, are intended to derail or disrupt a conversation.
    2. The jokes exceed a reasonable number. One to a few isn't going to warrant action.
    3. They are just super uncreative. (ie:"LOL Rape" is the entirety of the post.)
    4. They are an attack, not an attempt to be funny, on a particular poster and/or issue.
    Now, I have enough faith in WWP members to metamoderate using the thumbs down make a post disappear should it garner enough negative votes. You can say it is Moralfaggotry but it is the very execution of the Freedom of Expression: People expressed their dislike and made the joke vanish due to too many negative votes.

    Therefore, any fear you have of at least myself being a Nazi Mod who deletes each and every rape joke is unfounded. I'll treat them like any other post and only take action if they supersaturate a thread and disrupt/derail. Besides, the Thunderdome is a better place for such stuff and I bet there is a thread chock full of them down there. However, so far there is no pressing need to send anything down there just yet.

    Secondly: Rape is a very sensitive and very touchy subject to people. Despite what you might think: People don't find it funny in real life and won't find it funny online. That is why they are having these knee-jerk reactions: Because it hits too close to home or is just one of those lines they will not cross. Has nothing to do with this being a PA or moralfaggotry: It has to do with their sense of taste on a subject.

    Rape is the ultimate disrespect and ultimate violation of the human condition. Some might say worse that death itself. Unless you have been a victim of it, you cannot appreciate or fully grasp what a rape victim feels or goes through. If you have, then this whole "Joking about it got me through it..." may have only worked for you and may not necessarily work for others. In fact it may make matters worse for them. Nobody knows exactly as there isn't a one size cures all when it comes to Rape and WWP is certainly NOT the place for proper treatment for a victim of such a heinous atrocity.

    TL;DR: Rape isn't funny and difficult (maybe impossible...) to express in humor. I'm not going to go "ZOMG! Rape joke! Delete tiem nao!!!" if I see one. I entrust people with their own sense of judgement and taste as to whether or not it remains visible with the Thumbs Down button.
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  26. Anonymous Member

    Rape jokes suck and can get posted here. Demanding censorship is always a mistake. I totally agree with the mod. (Thanks for your time here)
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  27. Malory Member

    Let me clarify a couple of things in return.

    At no point have I suggested making rape jokes on a forum about rape is a good idea. In fact I said the opposite, so it would help if the hysterics bothered to read what the fuck I said instead of rushing to try and show how morally superior they are.

    Now do not lecture me about rape as if I were either retarded or a child because you obviously know nothing about me. Again, you're so busy trying to lay out your credentials that you're not taking the time to read what the fuck I'm saying.

    Who are you to decide what is and isn't funny? That's what I meant about thought police because you're not dictating what people can say, you're trying to dictate how they can even think and that is not acceptable.

    With regards to your mod duties, if Sue wants to make it a hard and fast rules that jokes aren't allowed in here then I'm fine with that since it's a privately owned site. Again I'll draw your attention to the fact I have neither made such jokes in here or even argued it should be allowed.

    But if someone's going to wave their hands in the air and start advocating censorship then I'm going to speak out. When you support freedom of speech you don't get to cherry pick the bits you like and to hell with the rest.
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  28. sue Administrator

    Saw my nick being mentioned, to clarify: all I request is that no illegal activity is planned on any of the initiative forums. That being said, I believe and encourage moderators to act independently, in other words: what the AVS team might find acceptable might not be acceptable to the no rape team and vice versa.

    The "success" of a section in part depends upon the moderators and I will as little as possible interfere with how they are maintained.

    Does that sound fair?
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  29. Malory Member

    I don't have any complaints about modding, just trying to make a few people understand that I wasn't advocating a free run of rape jokes in this particular forum.

    They'll still have to prise my folder of Pedobear images from my cold, dead hands though :p
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  30. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Thank you. Now let me respond:

    Never said you did or accused you of condoning such actions In fact, I can testify to the fact your statement is true. I have read your posts after all...

    I have read what you said. Had you read what I had said, you would have understood that I was trying to show you the perspective of these "hysterics" and why they all are up in arms about such things.

    As for the rape lecture: That was a general discussion not directed at you personally, but to show the reasoning as to why such knee-jerk reactions happen whenever somebody goes against the grain. IOW: The whole rape lecture was a metaphor to better explain the mindset of those who'd get upset over rape jokes.

    Bottom line: I know that Rape is a very sensitive subject to people and that no two people have the same reaction to it. Joking about it isn't going to go over well, especially to those who have endured it. Not saying you would do that or that you advocate it as that'd be a lie, however a little restraint in this matter would go a long way. To which I have confidence the WWP users have such or at least dealing with it via the systems in place.

    You missed the entire point.

    I said if a thread got derailed because of such things as an influx of rape jokes then I'd take action. Otherwise I'll leave that to the rather capable hands of the community. It'd be treated no different as if this were the Scientology thread and Scientology users were posting pro-Scientology trolls every single post. Posting pro-Scientology stuff is one thing. Posting blatant disruptive posts/insults/trolling using Scientology as the medium is quite another.

    The notion of a Thought Police would only be true if such actions like deleting all rape jokes on sight or deleting this discussion, rather than responding to it in a rational, civil manner. Your free to express yourself though. Your free to do whatever you like and say whatever you like just like any other thread. However, Freedom of Expression does not give anybody the permission or the right to use said right to step on others or make others feel inferior.

    Point is: I'm not going to decide what is or isn't funny. Humor is subjective, after all. However, nobody should get mad if a joke or post gets down voted into hidden mode. People have just as much the right to do that as somebody has the right to post it.

    Again, I did not accuse you of such things. I was trying to explain to you why specifically people are acting the way they are about this subject and steps I'd take when dealing with such issues. It is fair and reasonable that people have the power to decide on their own (via the up/down vote) what is and isn't acceptable and is hardly a "thought police" because of it. I tried to explain that this issue is a sticky and sensitive issue that may cause people to act the way you are concerned about. That is fine and I respect it and mostly agree with you.

    You have made an interesting point, though. Maybe I or others should ask Sue as to what officially should be done.* Personally, I thought I was being fair by letting the community decide via thumbs down or up and only taking action if it became too much. If I am wrong, I will correct myself and apologize to you, Malory.

    *Disregard. This post poped up after Sue responded.

    This matter is a very emotionally charged issue and there isn't any way to escape it. That is why, again not saying you are, jokes about such a thing may not be well received. People are going to get upset because this issue isn't a joke. If anything, you are correct in this matter. However, having people (not mods) deal with it is far more effective than having mods deal with it. Having it moved to an area more suited for such a discussion is also not censorship but a means to organize the discussions into areas users can avoid if they want to by their own volition.

    Again: WWP users can make such decisions on their own via voting up or down or not reading at all. That is hardly "cherry picking". If derailing happens, it will get dealt with regardless of the derailing content. It is true in other threads, so the same is true here. If people don't like it, they can down vote it. That is democracy, not censorship. Of course people can read the hidden posts. So again: Not censorship. If posts get moved to another area for valid reasons, people can still read it. Again not censorship.
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  31. Anonymous Member

    If a troll arrives making rape jokes to derail the purpose of this thread, the mods will edit. IMHO thats all needs to be said on the subject.
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  32. Anonymous Member

    Nobody would ever suspect a rape troll to arrive, good point!
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  33. Anonymous Member

    Arrival of Rape Troll a forgone conclusion. Mods editing derail is a good response, rape jokes may not be funny but they are freedom of speech. Anyone who lectures us on why rape jokes are good for recovery is an idiot. Still free speech.
  34. Anonymous Member

    actually i clarified, what i said was it worked for me.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Intolerance about sexual humor (funny or not) is understandable but it derails.
  36. Anonymous Member

    nm its not a derail. Its an appropriate discussion. My bad.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Discussion of rape works for me, humor and minimizing included.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Yes I know I'm multi posting. Just you wait, little missy, until you get old too.

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