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Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

Discussion in 'Scientology Property Tax' started by RolandRB, Jun 17, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Next step for CORESCI - get accounts audited by W.I.S.E. accountant.
  2. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I'm happy to state that their unaudited financial statements are a complete fabrication. Their income from year to year is steady but we know that the popularity of Scientology in the UK ebbs and flows. This is not apparent in the reported income figures and is not believable.

    If I was reading it right then didn't their income magically drop in New Zealand in the first year they had to be audited? This indicates to me that they were fabricating figures all along.

    This section 700 Companies Act 1985 could be perfectly OK. It is assumed that they are filing accounts according to parent law in their own country but maybe they don't have to do this in Australia as they do not conduct any business there. What are the accounting rules governing non-profit associations there?
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Hmmm,

    Companies Act 1985 (c. 6)

    There is no section 700 in the latest iteration of the Companies Act! (?)
  4. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    From what I am seeing they avoid any form of auditing.

    Some one should point out to the Senate committee that while the Today Tonight program may have been wrong regarding COSRECI not accounting for corporation tax in their UK submissions that they are avoiding auditing in the UK under the "parent" law and are clearly not audited in Australia which leaves them able to make things up without oversight, another possible explanation for the massive drop in income in New Zealand when they had to report to the charities commission.

    I am not an accountant but reading one of their accounts it seems to me that they don't pay corporation tax because they claim a deficit, which no one actually bothers to audit. Am I wrong?

    The parent law makes sense but it presumes auditing occurs in the country of origin which appears not to be the case in this instance.
  5. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    This might be an Australian problem and not a UK problem. Companies House may be doing everything right. For sure, COSRECI exists in Australia as a non-profit association so from the UK end they are looking at an Oversea Company and in the UK they only have to file brief accounts. They do not need to be audited. The assumption being made is that the company files accounts in their home country according to parent law. If, in Australia, this is going wrong then it is not the faulty of Companies House in the UK.

    We know COSRECI has an income of £10M per year and owns assets of £20M so as a non-profit association in Australia then should they not be submitting audited accounts yearly? I think they probably should. But the blame does not lie with Companies House in the UK if this is not being done. It's an Australian problem and Australia should remedy the matter.
  6. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I know but I don't think the situation has changed much for Oversea Companies although I was reading that they may have to lodge copies of their accounts submitted in their parent country to Companies House in the UK, suitably translated into English.
  7. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I agree based on current legislation however our legislation is very generous with the presumption that the parent company is audited. Perhaps legislation should be such that the if you can demonstrate your accounts are audited in the parent company's country then you don't need them audit here, meaning you have to actually provide some kind of document saying the accounts were audited in Australia say, which would be the auditors statement from Australia of course, no great issue for most corporations I would imagine.

    This would protect the many corporations which benefit from this legislation who operate legitimately but create a fraud trap for those who aren't.
  8. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Oh wait, isn't this what I have just said?
  9. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    The more I think about this the more I see it as an Australian problem. Could an Australian Anon please contact their equivalent of Companies House about this and send them copies of the financial statements filed in the UK to show that they have an income of £10M and assets of £20M and ask them why they are not filing any accounts (let alone audited accounts) in Australia?
  10. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    But if they are not filing accounts in their parent country then that can be used as the reason for telling Companies House that they do not have to do it. Just tell them they don't have any accounts to give them because they did not submit any in Australia. Then there is not a lot Companies House can do about it.
  11. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    RolandRB, since you have a dialogue with companies house UK already would you mind asking if the current legislation requires companies to demonstrate their accounts are audited in the parent country, i.e. by providing something like the auditor's statement (and by that I mean the accountant auditor not some random class VII person with an e-meter)?

    If current legislation doesn't then I will happily put it to our Government this needs to be fixed, small change, low collateral damage possible big win.

    I'd ask but I'd have to explain the context which I think you have a better handle on, section 700(?) or something.
  12. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I wouldn't say I have a dialogue with Companies House. I have reported it as fraud that COSRECI only submit unaudited financial statements. They wrote back to say that it is OK under section 700 Companies Act 1985. I then wrote back to ask them if the assumption were being made that they were submitting accounts according to parent law and if it had any bearing on the issue that they had not submitted accounts in Australia in thirty years. They still have time to reply.

    If you have got a question to ask them then it is best you do it yourself. I don't want to mix it in with the issue I reported to them.
  13. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    We're cross posting. LOL.

    So I think from the UK point of view we need to fix that assumption and require auditing where none takes place in the parent country either because it is not required or is simply not done.

    That I believe squares away the UK side, I think it's wrong for the UK legislation to assume auditing takes place in the parent country and so take accounts as read for the benefit of collecting tax here.

    I wonder how many multinationals will whine about this? Maybe I'm being naive in assuming the scilons are the only ones abusing the system to enable them to make up figures.
  14. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    By the end of Monday 05Jul2010 I should here from them and I will report back here.
  15. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Cheers, keep up the good work.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Is some sense yes - but it is the UK Taxpayer who is being ripped off. I wonder what discretionary powers HRMC has to go in and audit CORESCI UK.
  17. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I think all Companies House will do is inform their counterparts in Australia that they have an obligation to make sure that COSRECI accounts are lodged with them. The irregularity is being committed in Australia and not the UK. All the paperwork is in order at the UK end.
  18. Sponge Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    A general guide to HMRC powers
    HM Revenue & Customs: Review of HMRC's Powers, Deterrents and Safeguards

    It might be worth checking up on the new Legislation in Finance Act 2010 which... "increases the sanctions available to HMRC for tackling offshore non-compliance. It sets out a new penalty framework for offshore non-compliance that will apply to Income Tax and Capital Gains Tax and is expected to apply to tax periods commencing on or after 1 April 2011."
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2010/ukpga_20100013_en_4#pt2-pb4-l1g35
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2010/ukpga_20100013_en_17#sch10 <<penalties
  19. Random guy Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    This is interesting. Do we have any SA Anon that is (or is willing to be) namefagged?
  20. Sponge Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    On the Australian side you do have Senator Xenophon and reporter Bryan Seymour who are looking into it and I'm not sure what you can do that's going to be better than that.

    Although some feedback on that would be nice, just be a little patient.
    Xenophon doesn't have anyone above him to answer to and you can be sure he isn't going to let it go.
  21. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I would have to say that I am not 100% sure on some of the things I have written about COSRECI in the document you can link to below. In order to make sure I am not telling an untruth I would like to give the opportunity to their solicitor to correct any misinformation. As I understand it, that is Peter Hodkin and Co. so I emailed them using their contact form at
    Hodkin & Company Solicitors and Notary Public | Wills
    and I submitted the following.

    -----------------------------------------------
    Dated: 03JUL2010

    Dear Sir,

    if I understand correctly then you represent the Church of Scientology Religious Education College Incorporated (COSRECI). If that is correct then I would like you to be aware of a document I have written and published on the Internet that is critical of your client.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK

    In it I make certain accusations about the activities of COSRECI. I would not like to make any untrue statements about COSRECI and so if you consider it your responsibility to check these statements on behalf of your client and you find anything in my document you know to be untrue then please contact me by email with the scanned proof that any statement I have made is false and I will gladly withdraw that statement.

    Yours faithfully,
    Roland Rashleigh-Berry
    -----------------------------------------

    I'll let you know what their response is.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Bwahahahahahahahahaha

    Roland, good to see you back stirring up proper shit again.

    P.S.

    Do Body Thetans get the same tax deductions as Meat Bodies?

    If not, why? Can the Church of Scientology explain tax deductions per 1,000's of BTs?

    I think tax deductions for Body Thetans should be reviewed by the relevant tax authorities in Australia and the UK,.
  23. BigBeard Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Does the UK end paperwork include the claim to being a "charity" in Oz, when in fact it's not?? If so, I wouldn't call that being "in order at the UK end."

    BigBeard
  24. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Companies House only checks that the correct paperwork is submitted in the UK and it is. It's wrong at the Australian end but that is not their jurisdiction.
  25. Sponge Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    It is a false statement on a UK financial return which they signed off has being correct. The proof that it is incorrect is in their own written statement to the Today Tonight programme that it is not a registered charity in South Australia or with the ATO.
    What else does Companies House and the HMRC need, when they've got the cult's own admission, in order to prove that they have been lying all this time on their UK financial statements?

    Why do I get the feeling I've said this 10 times already? Oh it's because I have ;).

    If they are not using the false statement to get out of paying income/corporation tax then IMO I would assert that they are using it as a form of "proof" to show other bodies, such as local councils, to infer that they are a "legimate" charity in order to get rates relief (and/or generally to appear legitimate to other authorities to gain some sort of undeserved favour or respect). They are misrepresenting themselves by claiming to be something they are not and they subsequently confessed to it so, regardless of anything else, they should be pulled-up on this point alone.
  26. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    they wrote:

    In respect of the company’s charitable status under Australian law I cannot comment as it is not a matter that we address.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Taking your logic allows any company to get tax exemption simply by claiming to be an Australian charity.
  28. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    They have to provide the initial paperwork to prove they are established in Australia but after that no checking is done at the UK end.
  29. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    LOOPHOLE LOCATED
  30. Random guy Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Right, so what do we know is:

    1) COSRECI is not a charity in South Australia, by the cults own admission.

    2) They are registered as a charity in the UK based on being a South Australian charity.

    If bout 1 and 2 are true, it appears Companies House either did not check, or was given fraudulent papers back when COSRECI was registered in the UK. If they did not check, they may not particularly want to open the case, in that it would be to admit they did not do their job right. If they were fed bogus paperwork, I guess we'll have to wait for Xenophon/Seymour to untangle the mess on the Aussy side.

    There's also a third, tinfoil possibility, that the cult may have had a sympathetic ear somewhere in Companies House or somewhere in the UK Civil Services, backing them up on the charity issue. If so, getting the registration overturned may prove difficult.

    It's a bit frustration, but this has the potential to really, really hurt their operation in the UK. I have a very good feeling about this.
  31. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    But I don't. I see it as an Australian problem. I think Companies House see it that way too.

    What is needed is for Aussie Anons to send to the Companies House equivalent at their end the COSRECI accounts (that can be downloaded as COSRECI.zip) and ask for copies of the Australian accounts for the same years.
  32. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Nope. If the UK doesn't even look at what kind of entity is at their door, but merely accepts any kind of incorporated entity's word that it's a charity "over there"... then the UK is negligent. At least, I don't see any other way of looking at it. I can't think of a more perfect definition of a goatse-level gaping loophole.
  33. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Companies House is only a register of companies. Their duty is to collect the required paperwork. Nothing else.
  34. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    I've put in an enquiry to UK companies house to find out if existing or proposed legislation requires companies claiming exemption from audit as COSRECI does have to show proof that auditing is done on the parent company's accounts.

    Planning on closing glaring loop hole that allows companies to avoid any form of auditing.

    HM Revenue & Customs would be interested in the tax side though as this loop hole allows nefarious companies to tell great big porkies to avoid tax without the fear of being caught out.
  35. BigBeard Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Sounds like HMRC , not Company House, is who should be looking into the fasle "charity" claim on the UK end, while the ATO goes after it from the Australian end. And hopefully they come together as in "rock & hard place", with COSRECI in the middle.

    BigBeard
  36. Sponge Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Fix'd.

  37. Sponge Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Mostly true. They are very limited in what they can do.
    Reporting Fraud to Companies House
    There's this though...
    and of course the HMRC and the City of London Police Fraud squad (who can bring in the SFO).
  38. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    That sounds like a perfect match for this situation. GO GO GO YOU BRITISH SHEEPFUCKING SOCCERFAGS
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    On the other hand, the duty of media is to inform the public of that kind of nonsense. Things often start to move in the right direction when enough people go "wtf?!?"
  40. RolandRB Member

    Re: Is COSRECI a charity in the UK?

    Thanks, I missed that about the CIB. Complaint now submitted.

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