Intervention Services & Technologies, Inc Sober Solution - Narconon Front Groups

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by Anonymous, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Mirrored from RTTP.
    I must preface by saying that i share my story with shame of ever being associated with the people I once worked for, being anywhere in Narconon/AFR circles, and have the deepest regret for families that were misled in the name of money. I was completely green and knew nothing of the business of treatment centers. It was exclusively sales but over time the truth became evident.

    I worked for Intervention Services & Technologies, Inc. and Sober Solutions, Inc.

    They are sister companies owned in part by 2 brothers David Lee & Kevin Lee of Lowell IN. David Lee is also the ‘Founder’ of AFR and worked closely with Per Wickstrom to design the program in MI.

    David proudly boasts this on his Facebook page

    Intervention Services & Technologies (Technology / Scientology) was started/founded by David Lee, a struggling drug addict, who up until 1 year ago couldn't stay clean. Note: This article is a huge PR promo they staged for visibility. David was doing interventions while actively using crack. He recently received his 1 year medallion from NA.

    After going through the Narconon program himself (if memory serves- in San Diego) David got the idea of doing interventions for Narconon and Intervention Services (IST) was born. They legally registered with the state 2/17/2004.

    As you can see they recently changed names/ assumed another by dropping the “Technologies”. Their name was appearing on Ripoff Report and other internet blogs so they needed to throw the scent off the dogs. The intervention manual that David Lee ‘wrote’ is almost all plagiarism directly from Love First, Jeff & Debra Jay.

    IST did interventions exclusively for almost all of the Narconons in the US & Trois Riviere for the first few years until branching out networking with other treatment centers and advertising for real business. However NN primarily kept them financially afloat.

    The referral process went like this: IST received inbound ‘cycles’ as NN Registars (Reg’s) call them, these leads included family info, who was decision maker, who was weakest link, demographics, financial info, and any other pertinent details related the addict, and used that information to “book the intervention.” In the sales process the IST staff would communicate with the referring Reg and “ping pong” back & forth sensitive information in order to make the sale. Part of the process was to fend off & dispel any “Black PR” that the family may have discovered online or elsewhere. The IST sales person’s job was to overcome the Black PR & ensure the family did NOT seek treatment elsewhere. This misrepresentation by IST of itself as an independent neutral third party was to lend credibility and supportive of NN as a sound program that was NOT Scientology or related to COS.

    IST profited by the sale of service & compensated the Regs for the ‘cycle’, which enticed the Regs to keep ‘em coming. The referral fee of $400.00 was designed to bring more & more Regs & NNs on board. Eventually the powers that be at NN/COS caught on & gave the Regs a hard time and wouldn’t allow referral payments. After all, the $$ wasn’t flowing into the church directly right?! This threw a wrench into the IST plan to capture all of the NNs, so in lieu of a check they switched compensation with loaded giftcards. This payment arrangement may have switched back or policy changed completely-unsure of current status.

    On the flip side whenever a lead was provided to NN and placed in one of their centers IST or Sober Solutions received a $3000.00 referral payment. The same ping pong sales process applied. We were enticed by all sorts of game themed promotions and giveaways by certain Regs to refer to them exclusively

    I was told by another former IST insider that Sober Solutions came into being a result of IST “flipping” the NN Black PR leads. Either the family discovered the Black PR themselves or IST planted the seed. Regardless the family now wanted another center and the supposed neutral third party gladly assisted in identifying a different (referral paying)program & came away smelling like roses. They explained it to NN that the lead went cold and family simply went elsewhere.

    Sober Solutions was kept on the low down from the NN Regs so they could continue flipping cycles and trying to get the NN “non-quals” which are families who either didn’t have 30K for treatment or had insurance. Eventually they built & marketed the site as a free referral service. We were instructed to tell the NN Regs that we would take all of their “crap” (yes, Kevin & David called it "crap") to free their time up for the qualified cycles, providing a valuable service to them, in hoping to glean as much business as possible.

    In 2010 many of the staff at IST & SS received CADC Certifications through Kent McGregor at a group session on location signing off on one another’s professional references. Even the CFO of IST/SS Michael Boyd, who is NOT a counselor, NOT in recovery, and had never counseled any clients outside of occasionally answering the phones, received his CADC Certificate through the PITA Group. He is a childhood friend of Kevin & David Lee. I think the dog was certified that day too. The wall of shame

    The NN Regs were demanding requiring constant attention to their ‘cycles’. The primary sales person @ IST was Charles “Owen” Tharrington who is ~surprise~ also a NN Grad. Owen previously had worked at NN Stonehawk as a Reg and is currently working at A Forever Recovery in a supervisory position. He was known to work 24/7 and even closed a NN intervention in the ICU.

    Some of the Regs & Field Service Managers or FSM’s (owners of fake Referral sites for NN ) who previously did business with or currently work with IST include but not limited to:

    Don Pieriello, currently at IST/SS

    Kyle & Ben Whitaker NN grads, current IST interventionists

    Jamie White, now Jamie Horn, ex girlfried of Chris Bauge & mother of their child, out of NN circles, on infrequent occasion works for IST

    Dan Carmichael SoCal

    **Micki Allen ,SoCal who recently became Mrs. Dan Carmichael,

    Josh Penn

    Dena Bowman SoCal

    Chris Bogue

    Mike DiPalma Vista Bay

    Tonya Lawson SoCal to

    DanaSue Pruett, OK

    Dave Holtz, NN HI

    Desiree Romero,

    Jeannie Trayhandt,was NN LA then went to Freedom Ctr

    Larry Trayhandt

    Eric Mitchell, Suncoast rehabilitation FL,

    Nic Behner chasing the dragon working for IST

    Paul Weiss Nova Detox in Tampa

    Ramsey Darwish

    Rob Stecz currently @ now at FRN call center in Nashville

    Jeff Emler formerly with Stonehawk, AFR & IST, out of circles

    James Natarro

    Eric Epp

    Henry @ Pur Detox

    Ramsee ??

    Dan Green Freedom Center, now at AFR

    3 Rivers / now closed – Kyle Tardiff, Nick Hayes, Shana Miskinis, Scott, Sylvan

    Tibor ?


    **Micki Allen now uses a stage name “Michelle” due to all of her Black PR splattered on the net. Not 100% sure but heard thru reputable source she is voluntarily out of NN/COS, so her husband Dan Carmichael channels the leads to Micki who works the phone lines for Second Wind Interventions, another front group for NN. www.secondwindintervention,com owned by Kevin Ray. She also distributes cycles to IST. Quite the side business they have going.

    * *Murray Dailey also all over net, now goes by “John Dailey”, no longer @ AFR, haven’t heard where he is now.

    Other disgusting tidbits:

    Whenever there were guests from ‘legitimate’ ethical organizations & other treatment centers they would literally change the white board of sales/interventions scheduled to reflect OTHER treatment centers & erase the NN names.

    The Lee bros have paired up with Ken Seeley to promote continuum of care & refer the aftercare to Seeley. My opinion of Seeley is birds of a feather…. Ken Seeley used to do interventions for DanaSue in OK. Once they all went out to Betty Ford Center together to hobnob with their chief psychiatrist and also met with Andrea G. Barthwell, MD, FASAM, is CEO of EMGlobal LLC, a parent company of Two Dreams Outer Banks. Ugh..If only these people knew the wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    Kevin Lee is an admitted active Rx opiate, steroid, marijuana abuser has had numerous affairs with women family members on interventions & is currently divorcing his wife for a mother of an addict- met on intervention.

    There is a current interventionist who is a known Rx pill drug dealer in recovery circles.

    This fellow is currently one of the IST/SS sales reps – a convicted & registered sex offender - Brian Hero

    Don Pierriello is the other current IST/SS sales rep, he worked for IST previously, went to FL & arrested for crack, went to work for AFR but was recently fired-drunk on the job, is now back at IST

    There was an interventionist who was accused of sexual harassment by a family member on intervention.

    There was an interventionist who literally OD’d on an intervention, a family member who was an RN called into the office stating he was blue in color & unresponsive, an ambulance was called. Their $$ was refunded.

    The stories go on & on.......


    Why do I share my experiences? They would accuse me of being a disgruntled former employee and attempt to discredit me, however my experiences-these experiences were real, and every day when I left that office i felt dirty inside and out. I never want to feel that way again. Today I use my gifts & skills to do true good & help families heal from addiction and sleep well at night. I hope you don't judge me."

    Primum non nocere "First, do no harm"
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  2. Welcome OP.
    You have done the right thing in letting us know about another scam.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Would you have any names of staff from AFR and NN FC from Dec 2010 through Jan 2011? Yes: AFR Murray Dailey aka 'John Dailey' 269-832-2043 or 231-590-6972(old#)

    Doug McGarry 231-225-1007 or PO Box 704 (mail only) 244 West John Street Newaygo, MI 49337

    Kevin Pearce phone #?/Jennifer Emler, - Jeff Emler's sister phone#? Jeff Emler worked their lines after leaving IST approx Jan 2011 phone#??

    Rob Mead 269-986-5959

    Shervon Lakeburg 2197760489 Owen's former girlfriend.

    Charles 'Owen' Tharrington (219) 488-7671 (269) 665-0408 Owen owns a residential rental property in MI NN FC

    Darwin Dixon 269-213-7336

    Dan Green 517-629-8821 ofc 269-420-8302

    cell Erin ? same office 269-941-3839

    cell JD ? same office 269-217-6355

    cell Nick ? same office 419-306-4934

    Paul same office

    Ramsee same office 269-420-8124

    Don Pirirello currently at IST/SS

    Kevin Lee hired him back after being fired from AFR for being drunk on the job, (shoots steroids, smokes crack - personal gossip)I found another complaint in my records, from this past May, which began with
    IST in 2010. They charged $3,300 plus all sorts of fees. Unbelievable. In this case the family found IST on a Veterans website somewhere. (I need to find that site.) Philip Kelly was the interventionist.Interventions were $3800.00 but the cost was not set in stone, if the sales rep sensed there was $$ or the NN reg stated so (ping pong), they charged upwards of $4800.00. Likewise if IST risked losing business they would discount the cost. The breakdown of the interventions was this: Base intervention cost $3800.00Transport Fee $400.00 (Kevin Lee's way of giving his interventionists a raise without coming out of his personal pocket - charge it to the family, (literally true) Flights expense for interventionist's arrival, transport to treatment, and return trip home Lodging 1 night.

    Kelly 215-887-7260 lives in PHL called him Philly Phil, recently (in last 2 weeks) went to go work with Brad Lamm in NY They sent the 'student' to NN Caliente NV where the guy drank every day there while the family was told for over 3 moths that his liver was improving. The guy died within the next year. Pisses me off.SCUMBAGS!!!! WHAT A FACADE THEY PORTRAY. I wish there were more reports on Tipping Point WWP & Ripoff Report about IST being a front for NNs Please encourage people you spk with to list IST & Sober Solutions. I will one day too.,12102.msg28060.html#msg28060
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  4. RightOn Member

  5. Anonymous Member

    I look forward to hearing more stories.

    The layer upon layer of front groups and deception and greed is sickening.
  6. grebe Member

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  7. Anonymous Member

    You are doing the right thing now telling the truth and apologizing for the harm you caused. Please keep doing that, it's all anyone could ask of you.
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  8. Anonymous Member

    ANOTHER SCAM!!!!!!!
  9. Why don't you put your name on here if your so sure of all of these "facts". You throw all of these people under the bus that have truly helped alot of families and addicts. Your a coward! If this was true you'd have no problem not being anonymous. Lies lies lies!!!!!!!!
    This message by Lies has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  10. Anonymous Member

    Please prove that these are lies.
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  11. jensting Member

    Oooh, feisty!

    Actually, being right is no defense against the smear tactics of the criminal organisation known as the "church" of $cientology and their front organisation narCONon.

    David E Love was smeared, using information from his "confidential" files and he has already won one lawsuit (plus gotten practically the only narCONon in his country shut down) so there's nothing basically wrong with his information. The smears against David Love were vicious (involved family members) and ultimately pointless.

    So, there are good reasons to be anonymous.

    (And then there are bad reasons for being anonymous, such as your reason to hide behind a pseudonym ;) )
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  12. Intelligence Member

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  13. This is obviously a biased perception seeing as how you only tell one side. What about the good? Did these companies and people do no good? I think not. I will forever be grateful for IST for sending an interventionist out to get me to the Narconon program which saved my life. Did you hear that? Narconon saved my life! Shame on you for slandering places who save lives. If you want to share your experience, fine, but you can't realistically believe they do no good. I am sorry that you did not have the divinely inspired experience that I had and again, I am forever grateful.
    Jenny L.
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  14. DeathHamster Member

    Everything has a success rate. Telling you to wear a pancake on your head has a success rate. Not doing anything has a higher success rate than Narconon.
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  15. anon walker Moderator

    Apparently, the good/bad ratio in the flagship facility in Trois Rivieres was such that the government closed them down. Given that all Narconons are run identically, one can extrapolate that the problems in Quebec extend to every Narconon facility in the world.

    I will reiterate in case you missed it. "Apparently, the good/bad ratio in the flagship facility in Trois Rivieres was such that the government closed them down."

    Prozac users have a 2% negative reaction rate. This is considered acceptable by the government.
    So, Narconon is WORSE than Prozac! Hah! Hah! Hah! </tomcruise>
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  16. @DeathHamster, you're obviously a credible source with an unclothed baby with a large tattoo on it's stomach as the picture representing yourself. Not doing anything does NOT have a higher success rate than Narconon, nor any other rehabilitation program. I have friends who did nothing and they died. Nice success rate. You should try to be less ignorant.

    Jenny L.
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  17. I am again sorry that you had the experience you had. Mine was victorious over drugs (8+ years now clean) thanks to Narconon. Sadly, the government has imperfections (the FDA) and fortunately, Narconon, gets people off of drugs like Prozac, which have a major and common side effect of suicidal thoughts and attempts. And yes, I have experienced those as well. I went to Narconon on anti-depressants and have since not needed anything. I still believe in Narconon and always will. And I also believe in 12 step programs and anything that helps people overcome addiction. It is unfortunate that you feel ill towards Narconon because they truly do save people's lives day in and day out. Further, I went to a different program before Narconon (28 days) and it didn't work at all so the proof is in the pudding. Best of success to you and yours. Narconon is a blessing.

    Jenny L.
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  18. Anonymous Member

    Dear Jenny L,
    Thanks for the lulz.

    Much love and ARC and stuff,
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  19. anon walker Moderator

    You must realize that addicts who quit without help have a 10% success rate. Compare that to Narconon's 2% success rate, once the NN "statistics" are measured without the data massage (or touch assist) their success rate is pretty dismal.

    Nice distraction, let's all talk about Death Hamster's avatar rather than the issue.
    Nah, let's talk about Narconon.
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Anonymous Member

    Explain how poisoning clients with toxic doses of vitamins and L. Ron Hubbard's crap is "helping."
    If they're so great, why did Quebec shut them down?
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Anonymous Member

    Hey Jenny! Can you move an ashtray with your mind?

    I think if I were an addict I'd prefer real therapy.
  22. anon walker Moderator

    Or nothing. Quitting without therapy has a higher success rate than NN.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Dear Jenny, Thank you for your post, in which you confirm that IST sent you an interventionist 8 plus years ago to recruit you onto a Narconon programme.

    "I will forever be grateful for IST for sending an interventionist out to get me to the Narconon program which saved my life........(8+ years now clean)"

    And I do hope that you have read about all the deaths at Narconon last year which could have been prevented. How unfortunate that they did not have a divinely inspired experience at Narconon.
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Random guy Member

    Hi Jenny!

    You wouldn't happen to be the same Jenny that had a friend who was about to fall in with the cult over at ESMB?
  25. Need to clarify something on this write up that I originally posted for the tipster/ author over at Tipping Point forum:

    The comments about Intervention services and Technologies' Kevin Lee are completely denied by Mr. Lee.

    The bolded statement above is incorrect. Murray Dailey and J T Daily are 2 different people who worked at different Narconon facilities at different times. Murray Dailey no longer works for them. JT Daily does.

    There are other discrepancies but not worth going into.

    The result of this post was that David Lee of IST responded to me and then publicly announced he and his companies would have nothing to do with Narconon or Scientology based programs ever again. You can read his full statement in answer to the above and other revealing posts at this link,12144.0.html
    Just wanted t set the record straight.
    ~Mary McConnell
  26. I was actually the person whose 'interventionist' O'D at my intervention. The man went through my things and took my stuff and ended up overdosing. I gave him CPR until the ambulance arrived. Just to clarify, i was not reimbursed for the intervention, they took a check with my name on it and when I tried to call they hung up on me, after telling me I should be more understanding that addicts relapse. Also, that it wasn't an intervention if I am the one who paid for it. I was never offerred an apology nor did I hear from that interventionist again for any type of ammends. My family was completely traumatized by the situation, as was I. The only upside was that an officer, that came with the ambulance, had been sober for some time and he spent several hours with me trying to convince me to get help. It was because of him that I did.
  27. jensting Member

    Glad you got help. There was a large number of lawyers' names posted in one of these threads recently which you might consider looking at to find a good practice to help you get a refund (and compensation for the trauma). The narCONon front organisation for the criminal organisation known as the "church" of $cientology is only in it for the money and need to be stopped.
    • Like Like x 3
  28. Intelligence Member

    David Lee gave a great interview with Radio Paul last night - - excellent!

    • Like Like x 1
  29. Anonymous Member

    This ^^^ If the OP could confirm the following, it would be very helpful and appreciated?

    Will cross check, but could this "Marcel" be the same one connected/associated with "FSM - FRASOR?
    Message in that said: [August 11, 2011: ALL THEY HAVE NOW FOR GOOD FSM's are FRASOR AND MARCEL]

    Intel in from 2 sources in past 3 weeks, say about Nick Hayes (who was/is shacked uo with Maryse who was the NN TR Legal Liason Officer), has now JOINED the SEA ORG:
    [JANUARY 28, 2013 @ 5:50pm: ME: [Apparently Nick just joined the Elite "SEA ORG"] > Source: [ya i heard that yesterday - lol]

    • 2nd Source: January 23, 2013@ 7:22: [I heard on the week end that Nick has joined C org and signed a billion year contract.]
    "Shana Miskinis" <<< [Is this the same "Shana" that's hooked up with "Vince", the course room supervisor? They have a child together now.]

    Kyle Tardiff [REG], was there when I was there, he relapsed and went to NN Alberta for repair. Then went back as a REG or FSM,..., and the last SALE he had, that I am aware of, was with this Lady that wass ripped off HUGE:

    This ^^^ (same link), statement on National News was priceless by Andre Aher, Narconon Director of Legal Affairs: ["He said he is a Scientologist and that Narconon uses the teachings of Scientology in its program."]

    # # # Apologize this ^^ is a bit messy - out of sorts, but should make sense to you?

    ALSO, this is VERY important to me > THREE DRUG REHAB referal websites that
    apparently have phone number disconnect, but the sites were paid in advance for 3-5 years;
    that's WHY thet are still online: (I;m sure you're aware of WHO the owner is?}

    The following are on Facebook:

    One big issue with the Fort Mcmurruray one, is that there is a LIVE Ling to Narconon Alberta,
    so IF this person has SOURED on NN, why link to your ENEMY who owes you a TON of money
    and the piosibility of getting it are next to MILL?

    Will post all this as Anonymous (for good reason) but readers should easily
    know WHO I am if a PM is needed?


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  30. My name is Kevin Pearce and I worked for almost two years as a Intake Counselor at ARF--It was a rewarding time in my life to give back what I had been given, I can't speak for anyone else and the motives behind the scenes ,but the staffers I was in contact with cared for the clients and felt the pain of the family members that were watching the people they loved so much killing themselves in addiction. I completed the AFR program myself at the age of 48--It was not the country club allot of people wanted it to be --but the people a nd programs were availible for the taking by those willing to do the work--I am not a scientoligist and wasnt asked to be one--The center allowed me the choice to practice the faith of my choice and attend the groups /activities I was comfortable with--and as for the money-I paid 21500.00 for my treatment--Thats about half what I paid for the new truck I bought and lost prior to going to treatment--and I stayed 93 days because it takes as long as it takes to get the help you need--We had clients ranging from 45 days to 153 days (longest as of my time at the facility) and it cost no more $.
    Some people just don't realize when your seven miles in addiction---its 7 miles back out!!!
    Just wanted you to know I have nothing to hide.
  31. billybob Member

    Hi Kevin,

    Great to hear you feel the money you spent on your recovery was worth it!
    I keep hearing from a lot of people who feel differently.

    I'm glad for you that you found it so rewarding working for AFR.
    I know that without people like you, they wouldn't be able to run their business at such a profit!

    I truly appreciate the time you spent here telling us your side of things, and I applaud your honesty.
    Since you have nothing to hide about A Forever Recovery, I wonder if can help me with my curiosity about AFR?

    What did you tell your clients about the success rate for AFR?
    What can you tell me about the qualifications of the medical staff at AFR?
    How often did you see a doctor or nurse while you were there?
    Did you sit in a sauna? For how long each day?
    Did you take Niacin? How much, and for how long?
    Did you ever know anyone who wanted to leave the program? How did staff handle those situations?
    Did you ever know staff at AFR to drop off a client at a hotel or homeless shelter?

    I have a lot more questions, but let's just start there.

    Thanks Kevin, looking forward to hearing back from you!
    • Like Like x 2
  32. Anonymous Member

    Kevin, no one here is exactly who they seem, so forgive us if we don't take your story at face value.

    This is not doubting, judgmental, dismissive or any reflection on yourself, it's just the nature of the thing.

    So. Talk to us. Two years as an Intake Counselor. What were your starting qualifications other than being a Narconon graduate?
    • Like Like x 2
  33. billybob Member

    Wonder if Kevin Pearce completed his amends project? LOL!
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Hi,
    I was searching for help, info, online when I came across this post. It seems there are LOT of unethical vultures in the so called intervention and rehab industry. It is very very unfortunate that some scum bags take advantage of very vulnerable situations in other people's lives. These industries need to be seriously regulated.
    I need help. I made the BIG mistake of contacting Jeff Jay who sent a complete moron steve hanna, who knows nothing, and together, these two schemed to send steve over the weekend, knowing full well but NOT disclosing to me, that he would do nothing about getting my son out of the hospital over the weekend in this terrible stuck bak in time southern state, coz the doctors are off over the weekend. yet this vulture steve hanna came to the city, on my money, booked himself in the MOST EXPENSIVE HOTEL, while I was hurting and needing genuine help to help my son, and that useless crook did nothing. on top of that, he said things behind my back to the hospital staff that made things much worse for my son. HE HAD THE GALL TO USE MY MONEY, COME ON A VACATION FOR HIMSELF, STAY AT A VERY EXPENSIVE HOTEL, INSTIGATE HOSPITAL STAFF AGAINST ME AND MY SON, WHILE HE IS CHARGIN ME ON MY CARD, AND DOING NOTHING TO HELP, AND THEN LEAVE THE CITY. WHEN I REALIZED WHAT A LOWLY SCAM HE IS, AND I KNEW MORE OF THE APPROPRIATE REHAB FACILITIES IN THE COUNTRY AT THAT POINT THRU RESEARCH THAN HE EVEN HAD A CLUE OF, I WAS SHOCKED. WHO HAS GIVEN A LICENSE TO THE LYING, DECEPTIVE JEFF JAY??!!! The guy is a bag of deception. CAn anyone help me??. I am fighting my credit card company for the thousands of dollars these scum bag vultures charge me for. It IS SHOCKING HOW THESE VULTURES TAKE ADVANTAGE IN SUCH VULNERABLE SITUATIONS, AND HOW SICK THIS INDUSTRY IS. I have done what I can to support my son. he does yoga, and is doing his best to move forward. I wish every one the very best. please get back to me at your earliest, if you have any info to help me. thanks.
  35. Anonymous Member

  36. Quentinanon Member

    Unfortunately, you now have firsthand experience with typical scientologist behaviour. They think they are superior to non-scientologists and that society owes them for their existence. File a written complaint with your state or provincial consumer protection agency. File a complaint with local law enforcement. Your state or province may have laws against exploitation of disabled people and this smug scilon may face criminal charges, extradition, criminal trial, and perhaps prison.
  37. I suggest you contact an attorney to help you get the charge backs on your credit card, sir. Make sure you have documentation from the hospital where your son was staying, dates of treatment there and so forth, along with any proof in notes made there about this interventionist attempting to pull him out when patient discharges were not allowed on weekends. If he was in the hospital that day and remained there, then you have proof that no intervention took place.

    BTW, Jeff & Debra Jay and his company are not related to Scientology in any way that I know of. Their names are only mentioned in the OP you copied as having written an intervention manual which was supposedly copied in some manner by David Lee for his own intervention manual, or so the OP says.

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