'Innocence of Muslims' outrage?

Discussion in 'Freedom of Expression' started by Anonymous, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Trolling is not wrong, but fraud is. If the director and other assholes in charge of this project committed fraud, they committed a crime, and by willfully misrepresenting the nature of the film, that could be fraud. Not a legalfag, though.
  2. Shameful, but not illegal. To quote Evelyn Beatrice Hall (wrongly attributed to Voltaire, but a summary of his views), "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I'd much rather live in a nation where even that bitch Pamela Geller has the right to speak than one where she would be silenced.
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  3. The Wrong Guy Member

    Pakistan Police Open Fire on Protesters

    Published on Sep 21, 2012 by AssociatedPress

    Pakistani police opened fire on rioters who were torching a cinema during a protest against an anti-Islam film.

    Security forces clashed with demonstrators in several other cities in Pakistan.

    Protests against anti-Islam film turn deadly in Pakistan -

    Thousands of Muslims demonstrate in at least half a dozen other countries, some burning U.S. flags and effigies of President Obama.


    Pakistani Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf called on the international community Friday to pass laws to prevent people from insulting Muhammad.

    "If denying the Holocaust is a crime, then is it not fair and legitimate for a Muslim to demand that denigrating and demeaning Islam's holiest personality is no less than a crime?" Ashraf said during a speech to religious scholars and international diplomats in Islamabad.

    Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany, but not in the U.S.

    More at,0,7535534.story
  4. False equivalence. Making accurate statements about Mohammed based on words taken from the Quran, which depicts many events for which there is no evidence and that probably never actually occurred, is not morally or factually equivalent to denying historical events for which there is more than ample evidence, such as the Holocaust. We have forensic evidence, we have the Nazis' own documentation, and we have video and other testimony of living witnesses and victims, though their numbers shrink daily. Also, Holocaust denial is not a crime in the United States, as the article stated.
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  5. Anonymous Member


    Also: if Christians knew what was said about Jesus in the Talmud, they wouldn't jump quite so high in their kneejerk support of "Israel". Check for yourself.
  6. If I were to say Muhammed was a pedophile who fucked a 9 y.o. girl, although she may have been 10 according to al-Tabari, and that he bought, trafficked in, and sold slaves, and impregnated at least one of them, that would be fair, as it is based on Muslims' own written mythology. If, however, I were to say that several million Jews, Gypsies, gay people, and other minorities and political prisoners weren't murdered and tortured in concentration camps, that would be horrifyingly wrong, as that is contradicted by more pieces of evidence than I can name. Neither of those statements are particularly nice, but only the latter is patently false.
  7. Not quoted for truth, quoted for fail. There's still considerable debate over whether or not the Talmud mentions Jesus at all. Either way, medieval Jewish thought isn't entirely relevant to modern Judaism.
  8. The Wrong Guy Member

    Raw Video: Iran Military Parade Shows New Might

    Published on Sep 21, 2012 by AssociatedPress

    At a military parade marking the 32nd anniversary of the start of the Iran-Iraq war, Iran displayed an all new air-defense system. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also criticized the west and a film made in the US that mocks the Prophet Muhammad.

    Two of the comments to this video:

    I work with some Iranians. Funny thing is, they don't hate the USA. Their government keeps pressing the issue and they just laugh it off. They tell me Iranian people like American people. It's the stupid governments that want us to think otherwise.

    I agree 100%. I have many Iranians here at my University in Sweden. They are great people, and I have NEVER met one that hated the US (or the west for that matter). Rather, they agree that this is mostly about politics.
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  9. Archer Member

    ''It's ok to let people starve, they will stop believing in god faster this way''
    -Joseph Stalin during the famine-
  10. Archer Member

    Was a political marriage, no mentions that he actually had sex with the young girl. His first wife was actually a very wealthy and powerful woman and she was the leader in their couple.

    As for selling slaves, it kind of was the norm at the time, you have to take cultural context into account as well. Not sure what point you were trying to make anyway though.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Where is the line between trolling and promoting hatred of a group?

    Promoting hatred is always wrong.
  12. Anonymous Member

  13. *fap fap fap fap fap fap fap* Draw Muhammed day *fap fap fap*


    Purposely not Anonymous. Exercising my Freedom of Speech/Expression
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  14. Anonymous Member

    LOL@egofag failtroll

    You're still using a pseudonym, HorseCockSpanker
  15. Anonymous Member

    Some Teachings of the Jewish Talmud

    Where a Jew Should Do Evil

    Moed Kattan 17a: If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

    Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis
    Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

    Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God
    Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

    O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews
    Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile (&quot;Cuthean&quot;) the wages owed him for work.

    Jews Have Superior Legal Status
    Baba Kamma 37b. &quot;If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full.&quot;

    Jews May Steal from Non-Jews
    Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile (&quot;heathen&quot;) it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who &quot;marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean...&quot;

    Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews
    Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile (&quot;Cuthean&quot;), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

    Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has &quot;exposed their money to Israel.&quot;
    Jews May Lie to Non-Jews
    Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies (&quot;subterfuges&quot;) to circumvent a Gentile.

    Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human
    Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
    Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
    Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

    Insults Against Blessed Mary
    Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a whore: &quot;She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters.&quot; Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the &quot;uncensored&quot; text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, &quot;Miriam the hairdresser,&quot; had sex with many men.

    Gloats over Christ Dying Young
    A passage from Sanhedrin 106 gloats over the early age at which Jesus died: &quot;Hast thou heard how old Balaam (Jesus) was?--He replied: It is not actually stated but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days it follows that he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old.&quot;

    Jesus in the Talmud:
    Horrible Blasphemies Against Jesus Christ

    While it is the standard disinformation practice of apologists for the Talmud to deny that it contains any scurrilous references to Jesus Christ, certain Orthodox Jewish organizations are more forthcoming and admit that the Talmud not only mentions Jesus but disparages him (as a sorcerer and a demented sex freak). These orthodox Jewish organizations make this admission perhaps out of the belief that Jewish supremacy is so well-established in the modern world that they need not concern themselves with adverse reactions.
    For example, on the website of the Orthodox Jewish Hasidic Lubavitch group--one of the largest in the world--we find the following statement, complete with Talmudic citations:

    &quot;The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of 'Jesus the Nazarene':
    1) He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).
    2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).
    3) He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b).
    End quote from (Lubavitch website) June 20, 2000.

    [Note: we have printed and preserved in our files a hard copy of this statement from the Lubavitch&quot;Noah's Covenant Website,&quot; as it appeared on their website at on June 20, 2000, in the event that denials are later issued and the statement itself suppressed].
    Let us examine further some of these anti-Christ Talmud passages:

    Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in &quot;hot excrement.&quot;
    Sanhedrin 43a. Says Jesus (&quot;Yeshu&quot; and in Soncino footnote #6, Yeshu &quot;the Nazarene&quot;) was executed because he practiced sorcery: &quot;It is taught that on the eve of Passover Jesus was hung, and forty days before this the proclamation was made: Jesus is to be stoned to death because he has practiced sorcery and has lured the people to idolatry...He was an enticer and of such thou shalt not pity or condone.&quot;

    Kallah 51a.&quot;The elders were once sitting in the gate when two young lads passed by; one covered his head and the other uncovered his head. Of him who uncovered his head Rabbi Eliezer remarked that he is a bastard. Rabbi Joshua remarked that he is the son of a niddah (a child conceived during a woman's menstrual period). Rabbi Akiba said that he is both a bastard and a son of a niddah.

    &quot;They said, 'What induced you to contradict the opinion of your colleagues?' He replied, &quot;I will prove it concerning him.&quot; He went to the lad's mother and found her sitting in the market selling beans.

    &quot;He said to her, 'My daughter, if you will answer the question I will put to you, I will bring you to the world to come.' (eternal life). She said to him, 'Swear it to me.'

    &quot;Rabbi Akiba, taking the oath with his lips but annulling it in his heart, said to her, 'What is the status of your son?' She replied, 'When I entered the bridal chamber I was niddah (menstruating) and my husband kept away from me; but my best man had intercourse with me and this son was born to me.' Consequently the child was both a bastard and the son of a niddah.

    &quot;It was declared, '..Blessed be the God of Israel Who Revealed His Secret to Rabbi Akiba...&quot;
  16. Anonymous Member

    In addition to the theme that God rewards clever liars, the preceding Talmud discussion is actually about Jesus Christ (the bastard boy who "uncovered his head" and was conceived in the filth of menstruation). The boy's adulterous mother in this Talmud story is the mother of Christ, Blessed Mary (called Miriam and sometimes, Miriam the hairdresser, in the Talmud).

    "The Editio Princeps of the complete Code of Talmudic Law, Maimonides' Mishneh Torah -- replete not only with the most offensive precepts against all Gentiles but also with explicit attacks on Christianity and on Jesus (after whose name the author adds piously, 'May the name of the wicked perish')... --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21.

    "The Talmud contains a few explicit references to Jesus...These references are certainly not complimentary...There seems little doubt that the account of the execution of Jesus on the eve of Passover does refer to the Christian Jesus...The passage in which Jesus' punishment in hell is described also seems to refer to the Christian Jesus. It is a piece of anti-Christian polemic dating from the post-70 CE period..." --Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 26-27.

    "According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt of rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned.

    "The more popular accounts--which were nevertheless taken quite seriously--such as the notorious Toldot Yeshu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. The very name 'Jesus' was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable and this popular tradition still persists...

    "The Hebrew form of the name Jesus--Yeshu--was interpreted as an acronym for the curse, 'may his name and memory be wiped out,' which is used as an extreme form of abuse. In fact, anti-zionist Orthodox Jews (such as Neturey Qarta) sometimes refer to Herzl as 'Herzl Jesus' and I have found in religious zionist writings expressions such as "Nasser Jesus" and more recently 'Arafat Jesus." --Dr. Israel Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, pp. 97- 98, 118.

    Talmud Attacks Christians and Christian Books
    Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
    Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament ("uncanonical books") will have no portion in the world to come.
    Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.
    Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).

    Sick and Insane Teachings of the Talmud
    Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.
    Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.
    Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
    Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.
    Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day" old).
    Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
    Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."
    Yebamoth 59b. A woman who had intercourse with a beast is eligible to marry a Jewish priest. A woman who has sex with a demon is also eligible to marry a Jewish priest.
    Abodah Zarah 17a. States that there is not a whore in the world that the Talmudic sage Rabbi Eleazar has not had sex with. On one of his whorehouse romps, Rabbi Eleazar leanred that there was one particular prostitute residing in a whorehouse near the sea, who would receive a bag of money for her services. He took a bag of money and went to her, crossing seven rivers to do so. During their intercourse the prostitute farted. After this the whore told Rabbi Eleazar: "Just as this gas will never return to my anus, Rabbi Eleazar will never get to heaven."
    Hagigah 27a. States that no rabbi can ever go to hell.
    Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.
    Gittin 70a. The Rabbis taught: "On coming from a privy (outdoor toilet) a man should not have sexual intercourse till he has waited long enough to walk half a mile, because the demon of the privy is with him for that time; if he does, his children will be epileptic."
    Gittin 69b. To heal the disease of pleurisy ("catarrh") a Jew should "take the excrement of a white dog and knead it with balsam, but if he can possibly avoid it he should not eat the dog's excrement as it loosens the limbs."
    Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.
    Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

    Freedom of speech, etc.
  17. Anonymous Member

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  18. KittyKatSpanker
    This message by KittyKatSpanker has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  19. Anonymous Member

    Suffer and die?
  20. The Wrong Guy Member

    Protesters storm main Islamist militia HQ in Libya's Benghazi | Reuters

    Hundreds of pro-government protesters stormed the headquarters of the main Islamist militia group in Libya's eastern city of Benghazi on Friday, Reuters witnesses said.

    Chanting "Libya, Libya", the demonstrators pulled down flags of the Ansar Al-Sharia militia and torched a vehicle inside the base. There was no sign of resistance from the militia.

    Earlier, protesters entered a separate compound belonging to the militia.


    In the last hour, CNN carried a live interview with a reporter there who covered this. More updates will be showing up here:

    Here's some background on what happened earlier:

    Libyans Hold Giant March Against Militias
  21. Archer Member

  22. Archer Member

  23. The Wrong Guy Member

    Corrected for grammar and punctuation:

    We'll talk when you can type properly. You are out of your element here. Go back to the tabloid threads.
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  24. The Wrong Guy Member

    Ten days after four Americans were killed in their Libyan city, hundreds of pro-democracy demonstrators marched in Benghazi and overtook the headquarters of a radical Islamist group tied to the attack.

    As militia members fled, the protesters torched a vehicle and took over the headquarters of Ansar al-Sharia without firing a single shot. They also claimed to have freed at least 20 captives held in the building.

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  25. I save moral judgments for individuals to make. If someone believes smoking pot is morally wrong, or drinking coffee, tea, or consuming tobacco, fine. Where it does and should cross into criminality is when one is making a threat of imminent harm to another or actually causing harm to another. Promoting hatred IS wrong, but so is censorship. The latter is the greater threat to a free society.
  26. Really? He never consummated the marriage with Aisha? The Sahih al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and Sunnan Abu Dawud disagree with you. Sorry, man. Just going with their mythology. Muhammed was a pedophile. While that was not uncommon among Bedouin tribesmen of the time, it does serve as yet another reason I choose not to follow the words of cult leaders from 14 centuries ago, or longer in the case of Christianity, Judaism, and other nonsense.
  27. Anonymous Member

    I will leave the criticism of Islam to experts who have studied the books and the history and the cultures in depth, and who know what they are talking about.

    The best criticisms of a religion tend to come from the people who grew up with it, studied it in-depth as children or young adults, and the decided that they would no longer follow it. They are the people who know exactly what the weak points and abusive practices are, and are the best at expressing these in a way that respects the human dignity of the remaining followers.

    In fundamentalist Islam any such critical expert is considered a criminal and condemned to death (if I understood correctly), which makes it quite a challenge for ex-muslims to communicate their criticisms to the ones who practice.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Whole thing coulda been staged. What's one US ambassador in exchange for a good false flag op?
  29. Anonymous Member

    inb4 USS Liberty
  30. Anonymous Member

    Srsly, this op has MOSSAD written all over it, right down to using a Christian as frontman.
    Predictable, actually, if you're familiar with the history.
  31. Archer Member

    Then you're throwing the baby with the bath water.

    I mean we're still talking about a huge part of earth's cultural heritage, at worst leave out what you fundamentally disagree with and look at it as culture. Without religion people would find ways to do horrible things anyway was my point I guess.
  32. Anonymous Member

    You must lead a most sad existence.
  33. The Wrong Guy Member

    Libyan protesters force militias out

    Published on Sep 21, 2012 by CNN

    CNN's Arwa Damon reports from Benghazi, describing the pro-democracy group's determination to reclaim the city.

  34. Anonymous Member

    Can't believe I forgot to Ignore this troll... fix'd.
  35. No, I'm throwing out the shit with the bathwater. The fact that it's someone's invisible friend that they talk to five times daily or their "culture" doesn't mean that I must or will respect bullshit. Just as I respect people's right to believe in bullshit, I expect others to respect my right to call them out on it, using the words from their "holy scriptures". Jesus was a cult leader who practiced Disconnection and had an anger management problem, and Moses was an egofag whose arrogance left his people wandering in the desert for 40 years, even though no evidence exists that either existed. Sorry. I don't know enough about Shintoism, Confucianism, Taoism, or Hinduism to piss them off. I'll have to work on that.

    While it is true that people will find other reasons to do horrible things to each other without religion, it will, at least, put an end to genocide and religion-based hate crimes. No Christians? That means no abortion doctor murders and no more Timothy McVeighs.
  36. Are you kidding me? I lost my religion and gained happiness and some measure of inner peace. It's a trade I wish I had made years before I did.
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