"Illegal practice of pharmacy"

Discussion in 'Narconon' started by RolandRB, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. RolandRB Member

    From:Case Referrals []
    Sent:24 May 2012 15:12
    To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Cc:Case Referrals
    Subject:RE: "Illegal Pharmacy" practised by the Church of Scientology


    Our ref: CRC/12/0409

    Subject: Church of Scientology

    Hello xxxxxxxxxxx,
    Thank you for your referral to the Case Referral Centre at the MHRA.

    Please accept this response as acknowledgement that your referral has been received and will be dealt with by the Case Referral Centre.

    I am writing to advise you that after reviewing the information in the email, I can confirm, as advised by our Borderline unit the products mentioned in the report would not be considered medicinal. The claims made would not be considered, medicinal claims and I would recommend you refer this complaint to the FSA, as they would be the appropriate body to deal with this matter.
    CRC will log this information for intelligence purposes.
    In the meantime, should you have any further queries then please contact me on the number below.
    Kind regards
    Case Referral Officer
    Telephone : xxxxxxxxxxx Email:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    MHRA, Inspection, Enforcement & Standards Division
    151 Buckingham Palace Road, London SW1W 9SZ
    For all Enforcement & Intelligence Group enquiries and potential case referrals;
    Telephone: +44 (0)203 080 6330
    To report suspected counterfeit products;
    Telephone: +44 (0)203 080 6701
    From: xxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: 10 May 2012 18:24
    To: Case Referrals
    Subject: FW: "Illegal Pharmacy" practised by the Church of Scientology

    Dear Case Referrals

    Please see email below together with consent to forward this information to you. The concerns raised relate to the possible unlawful supply of medicines from non-pharmacy premises.

    Mr Rashleigh-Berry has also requested that the information provided in the attached emails is provided to you.

    Please confirm receipt of this email.

    Many thanks


    From: Roland Rashleigh-Berry []
    Sent: 03 May 2012 18:28
    To: xxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: "Illegal Pharmacy" practised by the Church of Scientology

    Dear xxxxxxxxxx,

    yes, I consent to your passing my email on to the MHRA.

    Yours sincerely,
    Roland Rashleigh-Berry

    From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 17:36:17 +0100
    Subject: FW: "Illegal Pharmacy" practised by the Church of Scientology

    Dear Mr Rashleigh-Berry

    Thank you for your email below.

    As you may be aware, the General Pharmaceutical Council (GPhC) is the professional regulation body for pharmacists, registered pharmacy technicians (‘registrants’) and registered pharmacy premises. The GPhC has jurisdiction to consider allegations which indicate that a registrant’s fitness to practise may be impaired. Fitness to practise is when someone has the skills, knowledge, character and health to do their job safely and effectively. A person’s fitness to practise may be impaired for a number of reasons including misconduct, ill-health or through having been convicted of a criminal offence. The GPhC can also take action where titles such as “pharmacy” are used inappropriately.

    I have reviewed the information that you have provided in your email and I can see no information to suggest that a pharmacy professional or registered pharmacy premises was involved in this matter or that there has been an inappropriate use of the title “pharmacy”. As such, the GPhC is not able to take any action in respect of this matter. However, the Medicines and Healthcare product Regulatory Agency (MHRA) regulates medicines and medical devises and takes action in respect of unlawful sales of medicines from non-pharmacy premises. As such, I would like to refer your email and contact details to the MHRA and I would be grateful if you could let me know if you consent to this.

    If you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Yours sincerely

    From: Roland Rashleigh-Berry []
    Sent: 02 May 2012 15:47
    To: xxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: "Illegal Pharmacy" practised by the Church of Scientology

    Dear Sirs, Madams,

    You may not be aware that the Church of Scientology in France was convicted of fraud and "illegal pharmacy" in 2009 and that ths conviction was upheld by the Court of Appeal on 2 February 2012. You can link to the judgement below. Naturally, it is in French.

    I went to trouble to translate the part of this document into English that deals with "illegal pharmacy". I have had the translation checked by native French speakers and they agree that the translation is good and you will see some updates done by French people where the translation is lacking.

    The reason the French courts decided on illegal pharmacy was for a number of reasons that you will need to consider carefully so I will not list them here. These reasons can be read in the translation.

    There are a number of Churches of Scientology in the UK selling and administering the same regimen of vitamins that they were convicted of in France. Since the laws in France as well as the UK are governed by EU laws then if it is illegal in France then it is also illegal in the UK.

    Churches of Scientology sell high doses of vitamins for their "Purification Rundown" and also sell high dosage vitamin E tablets for what they call "auditing". The following is the dosage they titrate up to on the "Purification Rundown" (and also on their Narconon detoxification programme). These programmes are not medically supervised. Note that this dosage is taken four times a day.

    I have emailed you as pharmacy regulation inspectors because you have a Church of Scientology that sells and administers this vitamin programme in your catchment area so that you can investigate this matter and to have it stopped if it is illegal.
  2. RolandRB Member

    ^^^ I am left speechless by the idiocy of the MHRA. It will take me a few days to get over this insanity.

    "I can confirm, as advised by our Borderline unit the products mentioned in the report would not be considered medicinal. The claims made would not be considered, medicinal claims and I would recommend you refer this complaint to the FSA, as they would be the appropriate body to deal with this matter."

    They are firstly deciding if the products are medicinal and concluding that they are not (in contrast, niacin at high doses is a mainstream medicinal product used for lowering cholesterol at lower doses than given on the Purification Rundown). And then on the basis of that, deciding that any claims made about the products "would not be considered medicinal claims". So ridding the body of toxins is not medicinal. according to the MHRA.

    Contrast this with the what I posted above that I repeat below:

    A UK guide to what is a medical product:

    On page 8:

    12. Products for persons wishing to lose weight (“slimming/dieting products”) would fall
    within the definition of a medicinal product if: (a) they make medicinal claims; (b) if they
    modify physiological functions by acting pharmacologically, immunologically or metabolically,
    or are marketed and used with a view to having such an effect.
  3. RolandRB Member

    ^^^ Somebody please pass the above information to the press. I am done with this for a while.
  4. RolandRB Member

    I sent in an FOI request to the MHRA concerning the above, quoting their reference number CRC/12/0409 so I'll see what warped logic dictated their conclusion. And when I get the information I will most likely send it into the European Commission as part of a complaint against the British government in that they are not abiding by EU Directives.

    It will take a while. I doubt anything will be resolved in 2012. It is messing up another action ongoing in the UK due to MHRA saying that this is not medicinal when it clearly is.
  5. RolandRB Member

    FOI 12/235 - RE: FOI Website Request Wed Jun 20 21:39:39 BST 2012

    From: MHRA Customer Services (
    Sent: 21 June 2012 11:04:23
    To: (

    Our Ref: FOI 12/235

    Dear Mr Roland Rashleigh-Berry,

    Thank you for your enquiry which we received on 21st June.

    I confirm that your request is being handled under the Freedom of Information Act and you should receive a reply within 20 working days from our date of receipt.

    If you need to contact us again about this request, please quote the reference number above.

    Yours Sincerely

    Customer Services
    External Relations
    Tel: 020 3080 6000

    -----Original Message-----
    From: []
    Sent: 20 June 2012 21:40
    To: FOI_request
    Subject: FOI Website Request Wed Jun 20 21:39:39 BST 2012

    Details of information required:
    A communication (your reference CRC/12/0409) dated 24 May 2012 was sent to a member of the pharmacy regulation authority in which it was stated "I am writing to advise you that after reviewing the information in the email, I can confirm, as advised by our Borderline unit the products mentioned in the report would not be considered medicinal. The claims made would not be considered, medicinal claims and I would recommend you refer this complaint to the FSA, as they would be the appropriate body to deal with this matter". Please send me in electronic format copies of all communications (both internal and external) that contributed to the decision reached.
  6. RolandRB Member

    Are "medical claims" being made in this literature about the Purification Rundown per the EU Directives definition? Please only answer if you are a licensed medical practitioner.

    Products making medical claims, as a general rule, will be regulated either by the Medical Devices
    Regulations or by medicines legislation,
    The revised definition of a medicine is:
    I. Any substance or combination of substances presented as having properties for treating or
    preventing disease in human beings; or

    II. Any substance or combination of substances which may be used in or administered to human
    beings either with a view to restoring, correcting or modifying physiological functions by exerting a
    pharmacological, immunological or metabolic action, or to making a medical diagnosis
  7. RolandRB Member

  8. JohnnyRUClear Member

    "Yeah, another one from that Roland dude again. You know, maybe he's actually serious."

    "You mean, like... he wants us to do something?!?"
  9. RolandRB Member

  10. RolandRB Member

    The view of a few medical practioners on this would help. Until I get the FOI answer from the MHRA then I am struggling to understand the response they gave the member of the pharmaceutical regulatory authority. If the MHRA hold to that view then it completely undermines another important initiative that is happening at the moment. It also means that what is illegal in France is legal in the UK using the same EU Directive.
  11. RolandRB Member

    This could be an FOI goldmine should some nasty person choose to make a nuisance of themselves. I am not going to do this (because I am not a vexatious person and I can't think of the wording in any case) but the more I read, the more complaints I see about the MHRA's failure to protect customers in the UK from unsupported medical claims made about products and services. I am guessing that there will have been many complaints sent in by the public about the lack of action of the MHRA in ensuring consumer protection against false or misleading medical claims contrary to as laid down in the law.

    I am suggesting nothing more at this stage but will instead include a link below for curious readers with too much spare time on their hands.

    P.S. I have got the FOI covered in a non-vexatious manner (I hope).
  12. Anonymous Member

  13. RolandRB Member

    OK, just read it. In short, at time of writing, MHRA Advisory Bodies and Committees overtaken by developments in EU law and a restructure required.
  14. RolandRB Member

    I think that what is happening is that the MHRA advisors have been overtaken by changes to EU law and are still thinking along old lines and looking after their old interests. They maybe do not realise that they need to obey the EU Directives that have become law and maybe they know about them but choose to ignore them as they maybe think it is a bad idea.

    When I get the answer to my FOI request I will study it and it may be appropriate for me to write in to the European Commission with a view to bringing the MHRA into line with the rest of Europe.

    This is going to take a long time to sort out in the UK. I am guessing it will take effect in the first half of 2013. The same needs to happen in other EU member states (not France as they already have it straightened out).

    So I am asking people to do something with this.

    I want people in other EU member states where they have Scientology "churches" or Narconon or both to take the same steps as me to pressure the health authorities of the member state to get the Purif and its high doses of vitamins stopped. You can always use Food Safety as a stop gap solution as I have done (nothing posted here but this is ongoing). This should also come to fruition in 2013. If nobody does anything then they will just shift the Purif to a more lax member state and Scientology will carry on as normal. It needs to be stopped in all member states timed to happen in 2013 or before. You will find everything you need in this thread.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. Sonichu Moderator

    Too be completely honest, I'm a little out of it right now, but I get the general gist that you are on to something and working hard at it.

    I wish I had something more constructive to offer right now, but let me simply say, Roland, Rock on with your Bad self!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Just FTR:

    EU bossing countries around is a Bad Thing, despite the fact that it may work to Chanology's (and everyone's) advantage re: Scientology. One small cult, bad as it is, represents far less danger than centralizing power over a whole continent -- particularly in something as undemocratic as the EU.

    Not that anybody ever listens to me....
  17. RolandRB Member

    EU bossing countries around is a natural extension to Napoleon being in charge of the True Republic of France. I could write a book on it. I lived in France for 3 years and the influence of Napoleonic law and its thinking was fully in place and in France I do not thnk it will go away for another few hundred years. And now we have an EU with France as a dominant moral member and with the major economic power Germany still mindful of a few minor indiscretions of the past then it is only natural that French and Napoleonic philosophy will permeate the EU.

    I hardly know where to start with France and their way of life. Go to bars or restaurants near a main old train station and what is normal to the French then others will find unbelievable. I knew of one restaurant in Lille where they had covers over the outside eating tables all year round, where families with maybe young children would eat, and these covers were to stop the used condoms that came flying out the windows of the narrow tall hotel rooms above. That is just one minor example to illustrate that the French way of the Republic is nothing like what other EU member states expect but it is being pushed on them and they are absent-mindedly incorporating it into their own laws thinking it will never apply to them.

    According to Napoleonic laws then the State protects the citizens. So scammers claiming their vitamins can detox people had better watch out in that country and through extension the rest of Europe. France has decided that these scammers are robbing their citizens and so they move against them. And they have spread that to the rest of the EU through EU Directives that have become incorporated into law.

    Unless you have lived in France then the magnitude of this and the change involved will escape you and I am sure it has escaped the other EU member states. They just look at the EU Directives and think they seem well intentioned enough and nod their heads and so it gets passed into law and they forget about it. But they have no idea of the consequences in that the protection afforded the citizens of France due Napoleonic law is being transferred over to the other EU member states. The governments of those countries then become protectors of their citizens as per Napoleon. Through those EU Directives then the other EU member states have become Napoleonic Republican states and their government departments have become fully responsible for the protection of their citizens.
  18. jensting Member

    Nice work. In France, thye complaint was made to the court of law by the professional association of pharmacists. Would it be a fun project to 'poon the English equivalent? And, more to the point, who actually has a track record, in England, of pursuing people selling unhealthy pseudo-medicine? There have been stories in the press form time to time regarding some alternative medicine sellers getting a date with the courts.
  19. RolandRB Member

    I sent in a second FOI request to the MHRA to find out some details.

    According to a BBC report in 2006 that can be linked to at this URL the MHRA reportedly wrote to a number of detox manufacturers asking them to withdraw medical claims. I do not need to know the identities of these manufacturers plus please tell me in each case the details of what law was being broken and why, as specifically communicated to the manufacturers in the MHRA request to ask them to stop.
  20. RolandRB Member

    I already did this and they communicated to the MHRA and the MHRA told them that vitamins are not medicine therefore any medical claims were not medical claims. Please see above.

    This means that although it is illegal in France, it is perfectly legal in the UK because the MHRA decided that it was so. I sent in a FOI request about this so that I could understand their logic.
  21. RolandRB Member

    I have 2 FOI requests running with the MHRA. Neither of them will take up much of their resources. I am curious as to why they chased up some examples of "detox" claims in 2006 whereas they did nothing with the Purification Rundown just recently. I suspect they are guided by "active substance(s)" in conjunction with medical claims. But since the EU Directives became law then "active substance" got replaced by "any substance". I guess they do not realise the consequences of this. Milk powder, for example, therefore becomes a medicine if someone claims that taking it can detoxify you. I know that sounds daft but that is what they accepted into their laws. It's the Napoleonic French Republic thing that is changing the EU that people have not woken up to yet.
  22. RolandRB Member

    Neither of the above 2 FOI requests turned up anything useful. But now I have all I need to send in a complaint to the EC that the UK's MHRA are deliberately avoiding applying EU law. I will suggest that criminal prosecutions of MHRA staff may be in order to protect EU citizens from false medical claims and unlicensed medicines.
    • Like Like x 2
  23. Anonymous Member

    Godspeed Roland, Godspeed.

    I wish you the best with your toils. I have no idea how to help you, or what I can do from Halfway Around the world, but I wish you the best.

    or as the Sci's put it; "I'm flowing theta to you right now"

    See sci's, I can do it too. You don't need thousands of $ or pounds whatever to speak like an illiterate idiot, you can do it for free on the internet!
    • Like Like x 2
  24. Intelligence Member

    I received some info directed at the Dutch Healthcare Inspection Re: Narconon
    and will be submitting a lengthy, comprehensive stack of documents over the next
    couple of days.

    Intel is beginning to arrive and we will hit them as hard as possible.

    Narconon IS the Bridge to the Bridge:

    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  25. Intelligence Member

  26. Intelligence Member

    Tx Jacky - I think it wise to delete for now as I just did.

    I do LOVE the Narconon-Bridge image - that's the second one we have now :)

  27. I've deleted my warning posts. I did not get to see any Narconon-Bridge Image. Can you post what you obtained?

    All I got was the setup.exe file with all of the links.
  28. Intelligence Member

    • Like Like x 1
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  29. RolandRB Member

    It seems that breaking EU Directives is quite common in the EU and the UK is deliberately breaking EU Directives that have already been transponded into law in the UK. I will send in a complaint soon now that I have worked out why this is happening.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Anonymous Member

    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  31. Anonymous Member

    Ok. I just received word from the Dutch FDA.


    Well, it most certainly did. This means we can lodge a complaint with the Dutch Health inspection, which two elements:
    - Dutch websites which sell these pills. The end result will be limited, since sale of pills of 100mg will remain legal for the time being, but at least it means they have to swallow dozens of pills each day instead of a handfull.
    - The Dutch Purification Rundown. Althouth they have a doctor involved with Narconon (this guy:, they do not have a doctor in the house for the Purification Narconon.

    This would be alongside the investigation into Narconon which is already underway.

    Paging Roland and David (I'd prefer not to lodge the complaint due to namefagging).

    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  32. Anonymous Member

  33. Anonymous Member

  34. Anonymous Member

  35. RolandRB Member

    The best move with what I am trying to do in the UK is for somebody in Germany to do the same thing. That is, write to the pharmacy regulators about illegal pharmacy done the the CoS quoting the French Court of Appeal decision. It's all in this thread.

    OK, I'm in Germany, but I don't have the lingo (yet).
    • Agree Agree x 1
  36. RolandRB Member

    ^^ I am out of hospital and have recovered from my operation (a-fucking-gain) so now I need a German national to send in the enquiry as per above.

    Do we have any German mods?

    Please PM me for this one.
  37. Anonymous Member

  38. JohnnyRUClear Member

    WB, o keeper of sanity's flame.
    • Agree Agree x 1

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