If you accept Mormonism then you accept Scientology

Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by RolandRB, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. RolandRB Member

    If you accept Mormonism as a religion then you accept Scientology. Get used to it folks! Don't go all upset about a religion that was brought into being not much differently than Mormonism and say you support Mormonism but not Scientology. If one is good then the other is good. Don't make religious bigots out of yourselves by choosing sides.
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  2. Random guy Member

    What if mormonism has an equally stupid cosmology, but somewhat less toxic "church" policy?
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  3. FSOS Member

    I have experienced both - first hand. I have on several occasions visited a Mormon Temple and some years later was involved with $cientology. From my own first hand experience Mormonism can be described as a cult (lower case) whilst $cientology can be described as a SUPER CULT (upper case) To escape from Mormonism you need a bicycle. To escape from $cientology you need a space-ship.
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  4. anon33 Member

    Bicycles hurt people everyday, spaceship only appears in alien abduction. If you believe strictly that all the stars are created in one single day, then the law of gravity isn't valid anymore, inter planet travel wouldn't have been possible and you may hit by a flying missile any time.
  5. nightfire Member

    Will you please show me where in the LDS church doctrine there is "Disconnection" or a Sea Org, or human trafficking, or "Fair Game"?

    See all religions are based on a things that are extraordinary. That is why faith is needed.
    I oppose Scientology because of Human rights abuses, because of doctrines that are well documented that I find repulsive. I am anti-scientology because they imprison people behind razor wire fences and don't allow them to leave.

    Honestly this is a conversation that has been brought up more times than I can count on this forum... and more times than I can count I've provided dox and evidence about this. I am frankly sick and tired of the anti-mormon crap. Are there similarities... yes, but no more so than to any other group. There are many more differences than similarities. But you don't have to take my word for it Talk to AnonShaw. He is a wonderful scholar of religion, and can argue any side of it because of his boundless reading on the subject. If you want to bash mormons there are plenty of place on the net to do so! Go have a hey day doing so with other like minded individuals. But if you are going to make these kinds of statements... you are going to need a truck load of DOX to back up your statement.

    so DOX or GTFO!
  6. RolandRB Member

    I am praising them both. They are religions and religions do good in the world (net good, that is). That is why the taxpayers in any country are happy to keep digging into their pockets to make up the shortfall in revenue from the tax rebates that religions get the world over. All religions are (net) good. And if they weren't then they would not all be getting tax breaks.
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  7. Ever seen a black mormon ?

    Rarer than mormons kissing:

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  8. nightfire Member

    I have actually! There has been black LDS people in almost every congregation that I've visited. I've also seen many LDS people kissing... married LDS people are highly affectionate (as can be seen from the large families that LDS people tend to have)
    But none of that feeds into what you want to show... please continue to cherry pick. It's much better than DOX.
  9. RolandRB Member

    They are both as valid as each other from the basis of their belief system. As for Scientology being mean, then some religions only talk the talk while other walk the walk. Take Christianity compared to Scientology. Jesus hated rug rats running around, making lots of noise and stealing things - like those worthless brats do - until He got so pissed off he said "suffer little children who come unto me". That is just talking the talk. Whereas L. Ron Hubbard used to lock small children in chain lockers for days and once slapped a boy who was insolent to Him so hard He lifted the boy off his feet. That is walking the walk. Religions that are mean are religions that walk the walk rather than just talking the talk.
  10. FSOS Member

    I agree - This forum is about how terrible $cientology is (and how we [Anonymous] can destroy them) - not about Mormonism. Don't get distracted.
  11. Black Mormons may be the stupidest off all of them:

  12. Cherry picking away:
  13. BlooAnon Member

    Who said I accept Mormonism?
  14. I am against Anonymous but it keeps riding my ass for more candy
  15. RightOn Member

    all "religions" are hokum
    that's my opinion and I am sticking to it
    Unless I see proof otherwise
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  16. hokum Member

    Bow before me penitent, lest I smite thee.
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  17. Roland must be bored.
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  18. 301

    Please get AnonShaw "the wonderful scholar of religion" in here to straighten Roland out about the wonderful Mormon religion!!!!!
  19. Oxy Member

    Mormons love their children and they all live aa a family together, the kids all go to school and join clubs like Boy Scouts. They play on the school football team and go to school dances. Sure they are taught that a conman pulled the tablets out of his ass on top of a hill and that they have plural marriages in heaven and that if they baptize all their ancestors they will get in heaven too and don't get me started about the Indians..
    Anyway, they tithe 10-30% of their income, volunteer in the church and seem to spend all weekend doing church stuff. Sound the same as Scientology to you??
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  20. RolandRB Member

    I'm not sure about the "love their children" part. If it were "love their children to join their Church's paramilitary arm" then it would be a closer match.
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  21. fishypants Moderator

    Scientology also takes its members money and gets its members to work for it free of charge.

    Those are certainly similarities. Thank you for pointing them out.

    Anecdotal evidence of Mormon shunning:
  22. The Internet Member

    People enjoy their religious groups. I wish they’d simply recognize that human beings are very confused about the difference between imagination and reality much of the time. Then they might recognize that much that is taught within their religion is imagination rather than reality. Then maybe they’d keep the group for the friendships and pay less attention to the fiction tarted up to seem like facts.

    The truly toxic groups like Scientology and some of the fundamentalists, use peer pressure to get members to take the alleged factual claims within the religion as actual facts. This pressure extends to political action. Rather than admit that they aren’t certain of something, they want to damage social structures in place designed to separate fact from fiction, thereby making their claims seem less retarded to the poor confused world at large.

    Reminds me of something I read recently about gibberish spam.

    The toxic religions are like these clever spammers “integrating” noise with signal, thereby reducing the effectiveness of our collective signal-to-noise filters. I said “integrative” because I’m also reminded of the alternative medicine people putting their nonsense into our hospitals.
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  23. RolandRB Member

    How come that a God or Being that has the power to create a universe, that can be prayed to to heal the sick and help people, no matter in what form, be it Allah, Jehovah, Theta, Buddha - you name it - how come not one of those Holy and Divine All-powerful fuckers can do a bit of Creation on the money side of things? How come All of these Divine fuckers need that we pay money into a Church that They are the Head of to keep it going? Why can't They just magic it up and let us keep our money for the things we need?
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  24. PresidentShaw Member

  25. PresidentShaw Member

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  26. The Internet Member

    Question for the Mormons: I hear that in the next lifetime, godly men get their own planets populated by several wives and millions of their own offspring. This seems weird to me and maybe you can explain.

    Seems like the guy who gets the planet is a far luckier bugger than the many millions of other people stuck on his planet. Not a very good global luck score when you add everyone’s luck up. This is supposed to be heaven for mankind?
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  27. PresidentShaw Member

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  28. Random guy Member

    Have you seen fathers of twins and triplets or with any high number of kinds? I'd say they have the rough deal.
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  29. fishypants Moderator

  30. PresidentShaw Member

    If you believe in blessings and the restoration of them I guess this kind of stuff might matter.......
    Tbh there is also the concept of personal responsibility, as long as adults make choices, I don't see the big deal with disconnection/shunning, I shun tons of people in real life all the time, not for religious reasons but still.
  31. nightfireash Member

    Hmmm Lets see I've been disfellowshipped so I think I can speak on this. When you are disfellowshipped and guess what?
    The only people who knew were me and the bishop and anyone I chose to tell. Once I was asked by someone leading a class to give a prayer for the group and I politely said "no" and that was it. There is no public announcement, unless the person decides to make one.

    As for excommunication again no announcement is usually made about these things unless the person themselves does it. The LDS church will respond to questions on if a person is or is not a member of the LDS church... but that is all. The church will comment on general principles, or generally about what it means to be excommunicated, or why that might happen, but NEVER about any individual! That person is free to talk about it or not, but the church won't talk about them specifically.

    In both cases members of the LDS church are encouraged to love these people, to continue relationships with them, and to pray for them.
    All of these things are very different from Disconnection where you are forced to end a relationship and communication on pain for being Disconnected yourself.
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  32. nightfire Member

    It sounds like you are saying that the LDS church has a paramilitary arm... IS that what you are saying?
    Scientology has a paramilitary arm... but the LDS church doesn't
  33. nightfire Member

    That is nothing like disconnection!
    Please show me where current members are supposed to "shun" or not talk to people who are excommunicated.
    Please show me where it says that there will be an announcement of the excommunication (so that everyone knows)
    Please show me where it says anything other than, "We love them and want them to return", or "Members should keep loving them".

    I think you need to word clear disconnection because that practice looks nothing like this one.
  34. fishypants Moderator

    Well, there's some similarities and some differences. They're not identical.

    One similarity: Scientology also says that it wants members who have been 'declared suppressive persons' to do the necessary steps to make amends and return to the 'church'.

    Another similarity: both 'churches' use disconnection/shunning/excommunication as a means for the men in power to impose their will on the congregation. Take a look at this example:

    Here's the Mormon equivalent of Scientology's 'SP declare':


    It's worth bearing in mind that this woman hasn't murdered anyone - she hasn't committed any crime - she's dared to question the authority of the men who tell her what to think, by suggesting that women might be equal to men. So out she goes.

    So in that the threat of excommunication is used to control the beliefs and actions of followers - i.e. "believe what we tell you and do what we tell you or you're out" - I see a strong similarity with Scientology's disconnection.

    In the letter above, they say that she's entitled to hold her own opinion but she's not entitled to communicate it to other Mormons. Saying that she can hold her own opinion but she mustn't tell anyone about it is hypocritical way of saying "think what we tell you to think".

    She says:

    A difference: I agree that the Mormon version is not as extreme as the Scientology version, in that Mormons don't seem to get excommunicated for communicating with someone else who has already been excommunicated - i.e. the excommunication isn't 'catching' in the way that disconnection is.

    But it's still very authoritarian. It's a means whereby the leadership controls the followers.
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  35. fishypants Moderator

  36. PresidentShaw Member

    All I know is that even though I'm a non believer, when Iwas struggling it was LDS people who gave me free food and helped me.
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  37. Cults often "help" the wrong kind of people.
  38. PresidentShaw Member

    The wrong kind of people?
  39. nightfire Member

    UT OH... You angered "The SHAW" prepare for your punishment.
  40. nightfire Member

    Let me clarify, because you seem to not understand some of the finer points here. As a member you have the right to "personal Revelation" that means God can speak to you to tell you what to do with your life. You do not have the right for God to tell you what others should do, or to preach-teach things that are contrary to the established doctrine of the church. It would be like a catholic priest to teach that condoms are great and everyone should use them... and that God approves. He couldn't do that and expect to remain a Catholic priest. (All members are considered clergy in the LDS church)

    She was teaching that women should be ordained to specific offices of the Priesthood... which is contrary to the teachings of the LDS church. She can't do that and expect to remain a member. She is allowed to think that someday, women may be ordained in that manner, heck she is even allowed to share that idea as a personal opinion that is not supported by current doctrine (remember LDS practices change as the LDS church has a Prophet who speak to God and there are even clarifications on doctrine) She was teaching and promoting ideas that are contrary to the teachings of the LDS church, and demanding that the LDS church change to suit her. That is not how that works. You don't go into a Catholic church and demand they change mass, or ordain you just because you want it.

    She is free to form her own organization-church that teaches what she wants to believe... but she can not expect to still call herself a member of the LDS church after doing so, and being warned that what she was doing was against LDS church teachings. If she really believes in what she is doing... all the more power to her! Start a "Reformed" LDS church with women ordained to all positions. She wouldn't be the first to do something like that... I doubt she will be the last. The LDS church would not oppose her doing so as long as she was clear that she didn't represent them, and was starting something new, and distinct.

    Meanwhile she keeps all her friends and family, who are commanded to love her no matter what choices she is making.

    Admittedly these are shadings that get lost which is why I wanted to share them.

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