"If Scientology were not a scam"

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by exOT8Michael, Mar 8, 2008.

  1. exOT8Michael Member

    "If Scientology were not a scam"

    I originally posted this title on alt.religion.scientology, but I feel it has some relevance here now.
    Comments and expansion of the theme are welcomed by those who have the correct info.


    If Scientology were not a scam how would they behave? What would be
    their modus operandi?

    Here is a first batch of indicators that contrast the PR with the
    1. CURRENTLY Scientology charges people to train to audit. This
    penalizes a person who is productive unfairly.
    If it were not a scam it would PAY people to train to audit, whoever
    they are wherever they want to audit. They would validate the activity
    which, apparently, is the most important one to achieve their

    2. CURRENTLY Scientology asks for donations to finance wars on
    psychologists. psychiatrists, and all of which are conflicts CREATED
    by Scientology.
    If it were not a scam it would rekindle its sub-goal of eliminating
    war and stop creating constant conflicts with people who are going
    about their own business. It would take measures to first and foremost
    prevent the eruption of its very own group's wars, insanity, crime and
    sicknesses before attempting to do that on non-Scientologists and
    groups outside its own walls.

    3. CURRENTLY Scientology pays tens of millions of dollars per year to
    lawyers to indulge in usless litigation which they often have to
    settle anyway (in order to increase their fees as the more they keep
    up conflicts the more they receive). This is validation of a down
    If it were not a scam they would pay these millions of dollars to its
    Sea Org members, staff and solo auditors to audit, audit, audit. They
    are the ones furthering Scns purposes, not lawyers or OSA's
    manufactured chaos. The biggest "Merchnt of Chaos" is OSA. (Office of Special Affairs, Scientology's own CIA)

    4. CURRENTLY Scientology has a management strata that lies, has
    committed financial and business crimes and hides the money flows from
    its own membership.
    If it were not a scam management would be genuinely honest,
    transparent, helpful and sincere and money flows and usage would be
    known by members, specially those who donate the funds. If celebrities
    knew what their huge donations actually purchased I think that they
    would be shocked beyond belief.

    5. CURRENTLY Scientology encourages new public to join, donate,
    comply, "go up the Bridge", "go OT" when they know full well that the
    promises of OT powers are not there to be delivered, per all past
    stats. I went as "OT" as you can get (New OT 8 !!! woweeeee ; ))
    and I never witnessed any OT powers happening anywhere anytime such as
    the ones advertised in the old "Advance" magazines.
    If it were not a scam it would stop advertising things that it can not
    deliver and advertise some more realistic services, not more.

    6. CURRENTLY Scientology uses celebrities like Tom Cruise, John
    Travolta, and other similar personalities to use star-power to recruit
    new members and to give "Public Relations" sound bytes ingeneral. The
    P.R is verbal.
    If it were not a scam it would show Scn results on real prosperity of
    all its members, how friendly and compassionate a "Homo Novis" could
    be, and OT powers BY EXAMPLE, EXAMPLE AND MORE EXAMPLE,...not just
    words in thin air to cover up an empty andfactually mean-spirited cult

    7. CURRENTLY Scientology's own membership is misled as to the actual
    non-expansion of the group. Glowing false reports at events and
    standard hackneyed one-liner PR phrases such as "Scientology is the
    fastest expanding religion in the world"" (I heard this just the other
    day at a Scn street booth!)keep members, including its celebrities,
    blind to the truth.
    If it were not a scam its members woud be openly shown the truth so
    they could act in accordance. OSA PR's time, place form and events
    data would actually be accurate and up-to-date. They might actually be
    able to get some expansion if they knew the truth and acted

    8. CURRENTLY Scientology excludes God from its teachings, yet calls
    itself a religion. God gets a passing mention and Hubbards touts
    HIMSELF as "Source", taking God's place. Hubbard wrote a book "Hymn of
    Asia" designed to give the (false) impression that HE was the
    long-awaited "Messiah". It also says that ANY OTHER RELIGION
    RELIGIONS, MORMONISM, ETC. It clearly states that Scientology is the
    ONLY way to Freedom, not God or any other religion.
    If it were not a scam God would be included as more than a passing
    mention if Scientolgy wants to actuall BE a religion. If it were not a
    scam Scientology would stop touting a fraud like Hubbard as the
    "Messiah". It would also grant beingness to any positive spiritual
    endeavor, as would that not be aligned with its stated goals??

    9. CURRENTLY Scientology attacks, belittles, denigrates, harasses,
    fair-game-attacks and even litigates (with huge abuse of process) to
    total financial and social ruin any ex-members who are vocal in
    exposing the scam. I am one of those, and have been since I left the
    cult in 1997.
    If it were not a scam there would be no such people to be in conflict
    with. The presence of alt.religion.scientology internet newsgroup and
    other mainline websites like,, etc. are a direct
    and steadfast symbols and result of the scam in action. Thank you to for archiving it all for the protection of generations to

    The 1,000,000+ postings on a.r.s. Google groups archives about
    Scientology are the direct result of Scientology's lack of result.

    10. CURRENTLY I, and many, many thousands of former very able and
    extremely devoted Scientologists are permanently estranged and
    alienated from Scientology. I certainly have no desire whatsoever to
    return to the cult.
    If it were not a scam we would all be delighted.
    If it were not a scam we would still be in it.

    I do not expect Scientology management to read and correct its
    behaviors as a result of this posting. I believe they are way too far
    gone to ever self-inspect or self-correct. If they are,
    however,somehow replaced (as they did to the former managaement group)
    maybe some improvement might occur for current members?

    This posting might, however, be useful in giving a reality check to
    some people who may be thinking of devoting time, money, efforts etc..
    to going across a "Bridge To Total Freedom" which is really the "Pier
    to Total Flotsam". It may also save some families from being
    destroyed, some permamently.

    I invite other people who know the real score, and who are sincere, to
    post further examples such as the above...maybe about families, money,
    brainwashing, e-meters, reactive mind, OSA front-groups, etc... and
    many more I have not remembered as yet.

  2. Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    I hate feeling like the devil's advocate or something here, but the whole "it doesn't talk about a God so it isn't a religion" deal gets under my skin a bit. A religion is defined (in anthropology, at least) as a set of rules and practices regarding supernatural forces and how to deal with them. Dieties of any kind aren't really a requirement for a religion, it's just more common for them to have it. I won't TL;DR on it more than that, though. There's some bits worth noting in point 8 anyway.

    Personally, the one thing that really gets to me is that, within the Church of Scientology, you are pretty much told - correct me if I'm wrong - that the only way you can become happy in this world is if you give them your money, and people who don't have the cash to fork up don't deserve it unless they sign over what's left of their free will over at the Sea Org.

    A major fallacy of a capitalistic society like this one is that, yes, your worth is deemed by your personal wealth. Expensive things are more often than not superior to cheap things, and CoS is a deplorable realization of this in some ways. Even though I have no experience in it myself, i'm pretty sure many people who got sucked in are convinced or want to believe that their religion is somehow 'better' than that of others because it costs so much money to be a part of it.
  3. Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    There is one thing that keeps running through my head after reading all the messages from Hubbard and the CoS. I cannot imagine any church of any kind that has messages sent out that state their enemies and use the word enemy so blatently.

    The CoS, Islam and those freaks at Westboro Minister.
    Those are the only ones I can think of that might have verbage that has the word ENEMY.

    The word Enemy is used so much, it completely boggles my mind.
    Can you imagine the Pope telling someone in a directive.. "destroy them, they are our enemy"?
    I can't even wrap my brain around it.
  4. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

  5. anonGF Member

    Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    Well, I would argue that they could not and that many religions cope perfectly without one but this is a moot point.

    The fact is that Scientologists do have a God...LRon Hubbard. He sacrificed himself to transcend his body and is now an entirely spiritual being working in the interest of mankind that will some day return to Earth.

    So they are a religion but unfortunately also a cult. Great post, btw.
  6. Me Member

    Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    Hi, Michael, really interesting post.
    It kind of gets me thinking...

    Do you think that Scientology is capable of reform (given how fundamentally corrupt it's doctrine is)?

    Secondly, if it was stripped of it's religious status, and was sold commercially, possibly in a manner similar to Dale Carnegie. Do you think it would give outside agencies sufficient oversight, that it would force the "church" to abandon it's illegal practices, and more importantly in the long-term, that the elements that can make it psychiatrically dangerous, would have to be removed?

    EDITED; 4 grammurr
  7. Robert S Member

    Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    Protest sign: Why does a church need an enemies list?
  8. I Member

    Re: "If Scientology were not a scam"

    I would suggest: why would a church need an enemies list?

    it's only a slight change in wording, but it makes the reader more likely to question whether it is, indeed, a church.
    whereas with the original wording, it implies that the church does in fact need such a list, and then implies that it is its own fault or something.

    also, the original wording would get an automatic response from scilons. they recognise that question, and can come out immediately with stuff about how people are against them because of A. jealousy because they couldn't get it to work, B. they're in competition (psychiatry) and don't want the CoS exposing their crimes, C. they're just generally evil people... the list goes on.

    with my suggested wording, it makes it a hypothetical question, and such questions shouldn't be answered with specific references to experience, but general possibilities.
    if the above list was given as general things that could happen to any church, the people listening will realise that that's bollocks, and that even if such things would be justified for the CoS to have an enemies list, they still mean it isn't a church.

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