"If He Dies, He Dies" book by Ron Miscavige Sr., David Miscavige's father

Discussion in 'Media' started by The Wrong Guy, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. RightOn Member

    Well, after all it is Thursday.:eek:
    Gotta get those stats in by 2pm! :confused:
    • Like Like x 4
  2. anon8109 Member

    obvious OSA is obvious
    • Like Like x 2
  3. read the cops reports:MOD EDIT LINK REMOVED
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  4. Random guy Member

    You know mate, the "attack the attacker" (deadagenting/ad hominem) type of arguments only work when people you are addressing them to does not know what you are doing. The concept of ad hominem is today so well known (and especially here on this board), even trying out Hubbard's old formula will only backfire.

    Now, Miscavige Snr. might (like his son) be a man of questionable moral character, but that does not in any way disprove what he has written in his book. Also, there actually are serious flaws with his/Koons book (very well articulated by John Duignan here). Your critique is still entirely irrelevant, though.[/URL]
    • Like Like x 5
  5. why is it the mods delete police report links? You don't want people to know? Fucking cult-like mentality. Fuck you.

    Double standard bullshit. Shame on you!

    someone asked for dox and the dox were linked ... why u remove post, u mad?
    This message by 273654234g2s has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 7
  6. JohnnyRUClear Member

    I didn't see what the link went to, and am wondering why it was deleted.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. anon8109 Member

    I didn't either but I'll guess it was a link to a scientology "fair game" smear site.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. White Tara Global Moderator

    It was deleted on the fly as a repeat post of this link here.If I was in error, then my apologies, I will look closer next time.
    Feel free to repost if you feel so inclined 273654234g2s.

    White Tara nailed it, I deleted it/ dis
    • Like Like x 1
  9. anon8109 Member

    WWP shouldn't be an avenue for the scientology corporation to boost the page rank of its smear websites, (or any of its websites). Links to cult sites need to be broken.

    It's a common OSA tactic to cry "free speech" in order to manipulate the mods to allow posts that violate WWP rules.
    • Like Like x 3
  10. LOL bullshit .. .they were two totally different links,
    Anyhow, here are the dox of the arrest: NICE TRY BUSTER/ dis
    This message by 231231xdsq123 has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 6
  11. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    The link was to
    Google search leads to

    "Jason Hoertling, International Management - Ron MiscavigeBook link
    My name is Jason Hoertling, I work here at the Church of Scientology International Dissemination & Distribution Center."

    Mod says nice try

    White Tara nailed it the first time
    • Like Like x 2
  12. what rules? dox or stfu

    or are you talking about the ones you violate generating drama about mark bunker?
    This message by stfufag has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 6
  13. why u delete the link when white tara said it is ok?! wtf!LOL

    This message by stfufag has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 6
  14. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    Anon8109 nailed it
    • Like Like x 1
  15. anon8109 Member

    Hey OSA, please explain why your cult is shrinking. Looks like nobody wants to buy Hubbard's snake oil anymore.
    • Like Like x 1
  16. White Tara Global Moderator

    Lol why so butthurt? I did say IF I was mistaken please feel free to repost. As I was not mistaken, your bad for reposting. Sucks to be you huh, why not try life on the outside, its real good ya know :p
    • Like Like x 1
  17. The Wrong Guy Member

    Is the Enquirer’s ‘exclusive’ on Scientology’s ‘hooker orgy’ a David Miscavige backfire?

    By Tony Ortega, August 26, 2016


    The National Enquirer announced this week that it had a “blockbuster world exclusive” involving some FBI documents that describe, in the Enquirer’s words, “Scientology Leaders’ HOOKER ORGY!”

    Actually, the documents detail an investigation of Ronnie Miscavige Jr, older brother to Scientology leader David Miscavige, that took place long after Ronnie had left Scientology. And what the Enquirer didn’t say about its “exclusive” is that these documents have been available for months at a website set up by the Church of Scientology itself to smear Ronnie and his father, Ron Miscavige Sr., in order to hit back at Ron’s book, Ruthless, that came out in May.


    ...right around the time the book was coming out, we started getting emails from addresses we didn’t recognize, urging us to look at a website that contained a lot of negative information about Ron Miscavige. Many of our readers and other people who watch Scientology also got the emails. It was pretty obvious that the church was behind the advertising campaign and the smear website, which contained slick videos of Ron’s former colleagues in the Sea Org, now trashing him as someone who was unreliable.

    It was brazen, even by Scientology’s decades-old style of smearing people it considers enemies. Previously, the church had posted online campaigns about Lawrence Wright’s book Going Clear and Alex Gibney’s documentary that was based on it, but those were quite mild by comparison. The material about Ron was vicious, and spun in ludicrous ways to make it sound even worse than it was.

    We wrote about one aspect of the online attack against Ron, debunking the notion that the musicians he played with at Gold Base were now “revealing” that Ron had been an incompetent musician and manager all along. But most of the material that Scientology has been posting about Ron was not worth addressing, it was so obviously a smear of the lowest sort, and based mostly on material that was irrelevant or exaggerated.

    And some of it was an attack on his son, Ronnie Jr., including documents detailing a 2012 criminal investigation of Ronnie Jr. hiring prostitutes. The National Enquirer has now picked up those documents, playing them up for all they are worth (“Offering a hooker a date at a shooting range — so she could practice with a pistol!”), but then had to point out that the end result was that after a six-month investigation, Ronnie pleaded guilty for solicitation of a prostitute, but later the case was dismissed.

    We don’t mean to downplay the seriousness of Ronnie Jr.’s unwise adventures, but it has little to do with Scientology, and even less to do with Ron Sr. and his explosive tell-all memoir.

    So why is it in the Enquirer?

    It’s not hard to imagine that David Miscavige found a way to feed the story to the newspaper. But the documents have been online for so long, it’s equally possible that the Enquirer found it on its own. And if that’s the case, we can’t help wondering if Scientology’s smear website ended up backfiring, because the Enquirer plays this up as a Scientology scandal more than anything else. It’s David Miscavige’s photo at the top of the double-page spread inside, and there’s an obligatory photo of David with Tom Cruise on the cover of the newspaper.

    And just take a look at the opening paragraph:

    “Scientology’s sordid connection to guns, prostitution and bizarre sexcapades is exposed in chilling confidential FBI files baring the sinful secrets of the powerful family controlling the controversial cult!”

    A casual reader of that paragraph probably isn’t going to see this as a hit on Ron Jr., Ron Sr., and Ron Sr.’s book. The casual reader will take away instead that the Church of Scientology is run by monsters.

    So, is it likely that David Miscavige (or his minions in the Office of Special Affairs) fed this story to the Enquirer, and does that make it an embarrassing backfire?

    “I don’t doubt that the church fed it to them. It’s the way they operate,” Ron Sr. told us yesterday by telephone from his home in Wisconsin. “I don’t put anything past Dave and these guys in OSA. They are hell-bent and determined to set up these hate websites about anyone not in their group.”

    But if his son David was behind the article, wasn’t he aware that it might turn out to be a huge embarrassment for the church itself?

    “Have you ever heard the expression, ‘a person would cut off their own nose to spite their face’? David would do that,” Ron said. “It’s a convoluted mind that comes up with this shit.”

    Here's the full article, with open comments:
    • Like Like x 3
  18. RightOn Member

    Too bad the Enquirer doesn't feel that child slavery and ALL the ex's horrendous stories out there and all deaths at Narconon and those also related to Scientology won't sell as well. Maybe people need to leak those stories to them. I would think "Scientology Deaths" would def. sell!

    But as far as the COS being seen as getting a bad rap for this article?
    BWA HA HA!!! Tough noogies Poodle!
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Quentinanon Member

    “It’s a convoluted mind that comes up with this shit.”

    And scientology specializes in producing convoluted minds.
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Ron senior and ron junior seems to be into beating up women and paying for sex (human trafficking shit). Fuckers need to be picketed!
    This message by fuckalltheseassholes has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 5
  21. TrevAnon Member


    Lurk moar. (And FY OSA.)
  22. RightOn Member

    Anyone see Shelly lately?
    And why did LRH deny he was married to Sara Northrup?
    So curious.
    And while I am on the subject of curiosities...
    Has anyone EVER proved that an OT exists?
    Just one? No?

    Todays seeds of doubt may be tomorrows freedom.
    • Like Like x 4
  23. GibbousWaxing Member

    Don't know about Junior, but Ron Sr said that he only beat up women before he got into Scientology. He says that Scientology helped him stop.

    Of course, the Church of Scientology says that everything Ron Sr says about Scientology is a lie, so that means it didn't really help.


    You know, I actually believe that.
    • Like Like x 2
  24. I seem to remember that Ron Senior on live TV said he had beaten his wife at least once a month for 10 years. It doesn’t fucking matter to me if this was before or after the cult. A wife beater is a wife beater. Clam or ex-clam.
    This message by ronthebeater has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 4
  25. And his son Ronnie going around fucking prostitutes does not seem like much, unless you think about the fact that most prostitutes are sex slaves. Would you want your mother or daughter or sister to be fucked by him...for money?
    This message by ronthebeater has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
    • Dislike Dislike x 4
  26. $$$

    How much money and would I get all of it?
  27. GibbousWaxing Member

    I'll repeat the auditing question:

    Of course, the Church of Scientology says that everything Ron Sr says about Scientology is a lie, so that means it didn't really help.

    • Like Like x 2
  28. The Wrong Guy Member

    Marty Rathbun defends Scientology leader David Miscavige as he trashes tell-all memoir ‘Ruthless’

    By Tony Ortega, September 1, 2016


    In a lengthy blog post, Rathbun produces a withering attack on the book.

    — Rathbun says he offered to fact-check the manuscript, but Ron and his publisher, St. Martin’s Press, turned him down.

    — Rathbun claims that he wanted to keep Ron from publishing “defamations” against his son that would end up having “deleterious emotional and spiritual effects” on Ron.

    — After Ron’s 2012 escape, Rathbun tried to correct stories Ron was hearing about his son, but Ron printed the rumors instead of Rathbun’s facts.

    — Rathbun claims he warned Ron against the “moral propriety” of writing a tell-all about his own son.

    — Rathbun says he counseled Ron that if he wanted to keep his family intact, he wouldn’t “cavort” with “people who are actively attacking Scientology.”

    — Because Ron turned down Rathbun’s offer of help, the book is “chock-full of hearsay, double hearsay, and anonymous hearsay.”

    — Rathbun says Ron avoids blaming himself for his own role in producing the person David Miscavige is today. Ron instead blames his deceased first wife and L. Ron Hubbard for making Dave aggressive and a complainer.

    — Rathbun criticizes Ron’s citation of the book The Sociopath Next Door to diagnose his son, when it was probably Ron’s neglect that made Dave the way he is.

    — In 1998, Rathbun says, he was charged with gathering up people for the St. Petersburg Times to interview to paint a glowing portrait of Dave and his upbringing. In the course of that effort, Ron admitted to him that he had “beat the hell” out of his son and felt guilty for it.

    — In 1981, Rathbun witnessed David Miscavige prevent his father from getting into a brawl in New Orleans following the Super Bowl. Ruthless doesn’t give Dave credit for the repeated ways he kept his dad out of trouble, Rathbun says.

    — Rathbun says Ron invited the kind of smears that Scientology is throwing at him, including the unrelated criminal investigation that Ron’s son, Ron Jr., went through that Scientology featured on one of its smear websites and that we wrote about recently.

    — Rathbun saves for last his agreement with the Church of Scientology’s official position that it’s “provable bullshit” that private investigators Dwayne and Daniel Powell spoke directly to David Miscavige when he told them to do nothing as they watched Ron Miscavige apparently suffering from a heart attack. (He wasn’t, but the Powells didn’t know that.) Rathbun casts doubt on the story, saying that over his more than 20 years in Scientology, “David Miscavige never once spoke to a private investigator.” What Rathbun doesn’t say, however, is that it was the Powells, not Ron Miscavige, who said that David Miscavige spoke to them directly on a telephone, and they said so while being questioned by West Allis, Wisconsin police in taped interviews as part of a criminal investigation.

    Early this morning, we swapped messages with Ron’s co-writer, Dan Koon, who said he’d make sure Ron saw Rathbun’s review, and then would let us know if they wanted to make a statement.

    Here's the complete article, with open comments:
    • Like Like x 3
  29. Thw narathbuncissist strikes again. He just can't stay away from the limelight, like a retarded moth.
    • Like Like x 3
  30. The Wrong Guy Member

    Dan Koon, co-writer of Scientology tell-all ‘Ruthless,’ on his days with L. Ron Hubbard

    By Tony Ortega, September 3, 2016


    Here in the US, we’ve started our long weekend celebrating Labor Day and unofficially ending the summer. And we’re getting the weekend going thanks to our longtime contributor Jeffrey Augustine, who is back with another podcast.

    He interviewed Dan Koon, the former high-ranking technical expert in the Church of Scientology who, after leaving the organization in 2004, has been helping several other former members write books about their experiences. His latest collaboration is with Ron Miscavige and their bestselling memoir, Ruthless: Scientology, My Son David Miscavige, and Me.

    Dan comments here at the Bunker under the name Joe Howard, and he explains to Jeff where that name comes from. Howard was a character Dan played in one of the tech films made by L. Ron Hubbard in California in 1978. Scientologists would have to watch the film repeatedly as they were learning their “training routines,” and so to many longtime Scientologists, “Joe Howard” is how they know Dan best.

    Enjoy this look into Dan’s work on technical matters with L. Ron Hubbard and other subjects as Jeffrey takes us through another fun interview.

    Continued here:
    • Like Like x 1
  31. The Wrong Guy Member

    National Enquirer stays on Ron Miscavige Jr.

    By Tony Ortega, September 3, 2016


    The Enquirer is still hot on the story of Ron Miscavige Jr., which we pointed out was probably the result of a David Miscavige public relations backfire.

    Normally, we would ignore something like this, a poorly written and jumbled piece that really adds nothing to the understanding of Scientology. However, one quote from the interview with Ron Jr. caught our eye and we decided to share it with you:

    “I also got an intimidating phone call from my sister, Jenna, who’s in Sea Org,” said Ronald. “She tried to blackmail me to stop my dad from writing a book about Scientology.”

    Um, say what? Ron Miscavige Jr. has a daughter named Jenna Miscavige Hill, who wrote about her famous uncle, David Miscavige, in her 2013 memoir, Beyond Belief. She’s been out of the Church of Scientology for years. And Ron Miscavige Jr’s only sisters are Denise and Lori, and neither of them are in the Sea Org.

    What do you think are the chances we’ll get some clarification of this from the Enquirer?

    Source, and open comments:
    • Like Like x 1
  32. The Wrong Guy Member

    A note on the Dwayne and Daniel Powell story

    By Tony Ortega, September 3, 2016


    A recent piece by Marty Rathbun has brought up discussion of last year’s big news that two Scientology private investigators, Dwayne Powell and his son Daniel, were hired by David Miscavige to follow his own father, Ron Miscavige Sr., and that at one point, David spoke directly to Dwayne and instructed the PIs not to intervene as Ron appeared to be having a heart attack. We’ve noticed some confusion online, however, about whether that claim was made by Dwayne or Daniel. Actually, it was made by both of them. Just to be clear that Dwayne did tell West Allis Police that he received a telephone call directly from David Miscavige, here is the relevant passage from the police report of the interview of Dwayne:

    Continued here:
    • Like Like x 1
  33. The Wrong Guy Member

    Co-writer Dan Koon answers accusations about the accuracy of Ron Miscavige’s ‘Ruthless’

    By Tony Ortega, September 13, 2016


    Jeffrey Augustine is back with part two of his interview with former Scientology executive Dan Koon. This time, the two get right into some accusations that have been made about the book that Dan co-wrote with Ron Miscavige, Ruthless: Scientology, My Son David Miscavige, and Me.

    We asked Jeffrey to summarize the points made in the podcast:

    — How Dan had several high ranking former Sea Org workers like Mark Fisher and others fact check the book.

    — How St. Martin’s lawyer went through the book and thoroughly vetted it with Ron and Dan.

    — Ron stands 100 percent behind his book. So does Dan and St. Martin’s. It is a solid book that became a NYT bestseller.

    — Dan is also asked about the depiction of David Miscavige by actor Andrew Perez in Louis Theroux’s My Scientology Movie. He says that if anything the portrayal was a mild one — no one, Dan says, can blow his top like Miscavige can.

    — How Dan got into the Sea Org and his different assignments.

    — How Ron Sr and Dan met when they were in the Sea Org and became very good friends.

    — How Ron Sr was well regarded in the Sea Org. Ron Sr was not allowed to skate because he was David Miscavige’s father. Ron was a great musician and always had to pull his own weight. He would have been kicked out of the Golden Era band if he weren’t an exceptional musician.

    — Dan knows all the people who are interviewed and appear on the Ron Sr. smear website operated by the church and he says they had a gun to their heads to trash Ron Sr.

    Continued here:
    • Like Like x 2
  34. WTF?? I just listened to the interview with Jeffrey Augustine and Dan Koon. Jeffrey Augustine said he is totally fine about people getting auditing … of course he is totally fine with that… his wife, Karen de la Carriere is making a killing auditing people (no pun intended). No wonder Jeffrey feels it is totally fine!
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  35. Mark "Marty" Rabthbun - Ruthless: Rape and Hypocrisy.

    Mark "Marty" Rabthbun - Ruthless: Rape and Hypocrisy

    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    My attention was directed to the latest on Karen De La Carriere’s Surviving Scientology youtube channel. There, kept-man first-class Jeffrey Augustine interviews Ron Miscavige’s ghostwriter Dan Koon, in no small part in response to my review of Miscavige’s book Ruthless. The effort is understandable if one reviews Karen’s eager promotion across several fora of Ron Miscavige’s expose’ of his own flesh and blood. At the same time it highlights the hypocrisy that is the trademark of the Anti-Scientology Cult (ASC).

    * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
  36. I want to comment on the emphasized phrase.

    Someone noted above that the statement by Mark "Marty" Rathbun is hypocritical given his employment history since he left the Church of Scientology. In addition, the statement by Mark "Marty" Rathbun is obviously sexist.

    If it were the case, hypothetically, that Jeffrey Augustine had a thriving art business, and Karen De La Carriere did not have paid employment (as opposed to doing extensive unpaid work as an activist), not even Mark "Marty" Rathbun would refer to Karen as "'kept-woman' 'first-class' Karen De La Carriere."

    Thus, we see that in addition to everything else Mark "Marty" Rathbun has proven to be, he is also sexist.
    • Like Like x 1
  37. Dan Koon is an editor of Mark "Marty" Rathbun's book "What Is Wrong With Scientology?"

    A nice reminder from Tim Hallinan on Tony Ortega's blog.

    * * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *

    I'm sure everyone but me already knows this, but these are the first words Rathbun addresses to his readers in his book "What Is Wrong with Scientology?"

    "I had the good fortune to have two of the most competent and qualified people in the world edit this book on Scientology. I addition to knowing just about all there is to know about the subject they are both great writers and editors."

    And the first one he names is Dan Koons.

    * * * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *


  38. Marty is toadly above and beyond the fray, moving on up a little higher. transcending it all.

    No way would he resort to cheap ad hominem attacks in lieu of rational discourse, because that really would be sheer hypocrisy, wouldn't it?
    • Like Like x 3
  39. ravenanon Member

    I've said it before and I'm saying it again Marty is guilty and has showed very little remorse for the destruction he caused. Lets be honest if he actually went to the police and spilled everything little davey would be behind bars.
    From what I understand he got his payoff and he is out. He was never to be trusted then or now
    • Like Like x 4

Share This Page

Customize Theme Colors


Choose a color via Color picker or click the predefined style names!

Primary Color :

Secondary Color :
Predefined Skins