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Ideal Org London Business Rates

Discussion in 'Scientology Property Tax' started by RolandRB, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I already link to that Segerdal page in one place.

    With the Scientology premises then some of them are empty and they may not have therefore applied for business rates relief. I had to limit the list so I just chose the ones they themselves wanted to advertise the presence of. I think it is enough.
  2. AnonyVix Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Some awesome work RowlandRB. I hope it hits the target.
  3. Sponge Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I think you're wrong. If you are going to do research then do complete research and pull from all the available UK data. Dox via FOI request from the council itself is about as official as you can get. If you want to exclude or seperate out orgs that have still yet to gain planning permission and/or are not yet active then fine.

    For everyone else I'll list out the supplementary info I PM'd you the other week, even if it is just for this thread...

    Birmingham has two scientology venus. You have the result for the Birminham city org.
    There is the unfinished Ideal Org, Birmingham, Moseley (Pitmaston House) (still under Birmingham City Council ). This is unoccupied (or occupied but not in use).
    Pitmaston House
    Moor Green Lane
    Moseley
    Birmingham
    West Midlands
    B13 8NG
    Response: Further to your email below, we can confirm that no discretionary relief is currently being applied to any of our rating assessments at Pitmaston House.
    Rates relief (Birmingham: Pitmaston House) - WhatDoTheyKnow
    However we already know that they haven't completed planning permission just yet for change of use so right now, unless they've just decided, it will still be rated as office space. See this press article ealier this month....
    Birmingham Mail - News - Top Stories - Church of Scientology to open new HQ in Moseley
    My general notes: Rules changed from April 2008 and you don't get the usual 50% relief for empty/unused buildings. After the first 3 months you would pay full whack rates whether you put the building to use or not. There are other descretionary things such as the hardship relief or, in the case of the unoccupied Northumbria Org (Gateshead), such a building could possibly be classed as being in a state of uneconomical repair at this time and can be taken out of the ratings list altogether (there are anti avoidance rules for that too).
    So, in the case of the Birmingham Ideal Org, the situation is fluid at the moment. However, I can't see the City Council not giving Pitmason House Ideal Org the same rates relief deal as the Birmigham City org once they have the change of use sorted out in the cults favour.


    Manchester has two scientology. You have the result for the Deansgate org.
    There is an FOI for the Manchester Ideal Org, Trafford (currently unoccupied):
    Former Trafford Press Site,
    Chester Road and Wright Street,
    Old Trafford
    Scientology rates relief: Trafford - WhatDoTheyKnow
    Response: The area identified is an industrial site of which none of the occupiers are entitled to any reliefs.


    Edinburgh:
    20 Southbridge
    Edinburgh
    EH1 1LL
    Scientology rates relief: Edinburgh - WhatDoTheyKnow
    Response: No relief has been applied in respect of the above property in the past 5 years.


    Southampton
    Church of Scientology Mission of Southampton 26 Hinkler Road, Southhampton
    26 Hinkler Rd
    Southampton
    S010 6FT
    Scientology rates relief: Southampton - WhatDoTheyKnow
    Response: the property is not in the Ratings List for Business Rates. It is a domestic property and is therefore liable for Council Tax. Any further details would be exempt from disclosure as personal information. See Eastbourne notes below**

    Poole scientology mission.
    42 High Street
    Poole
    BH15 1BT
    Scientology rates relief: Poole - WhatDoTheyKnow
    Response: The Church of Scientology Mission of Bournemouth Ltd who occupy 42 High Street, Poole are not in receipt of rate relief nor have they been in the last 5 years.

    Belfast:
    Scientology rates relief: Belfast - WhatDoTheyKnow
    Response: I must advise you that Belfast City Council does not hold the information you have requested. This is because in Northern Ireland district councils, such as Belfast City Council, are not responsible for the collection of rates. This function is the responsibility of the Land and
    Property Services agency. You may, therefore, wish to redirect your request to this agency


    Eastbourne (correction). The answer should be "none/residential". (you have "unknown").
    Response: The property address quoted above is residential and the Council does not have it registered as business rated at any time over the past five years.
    Scientology rates relief: Eastbourne - WhatDoTheyKnow
    **My Notes: For residential class properites. The only situation where a COUNCIL TAX discount could apply for a residential property associated with a church/religion would be if the property is unoccupied and being held vacant for a minster of a religion (whereupon it would be exempt completely), otherwise no council tax discount applies.
  4. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I am happy with the list I have got. It is the Church's own list of active churches and missions with their status. Some of them have nice web sites I can link to as well. This is the cozy part of the document.

    Eastbourne I corrected some time ago. You need to refer to the online version now.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK
  5. Sponge Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    We've made our points. Tis your article of course.
  6. greebly Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Are you making sure copies go to the Corporation of london, Mr Field and others at the guildhall?

    Personal opinions on belief system or religious nature at various different buildings are irrelevant at this time and therefore it is best to focus on the legal debate in question for local govts to decide.

    I would certainly follow up on wether parts of a building or place are used for "worship" and "ceremonies" or if all the establishment has to be to recieve full rates relief.
  7. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I sent a much earlier version of the document to all the local authorities where I knew or suspected they had granted business rates relief. The version I have now is much better and makes for a more persuasive legal argument. In the case of the City of London, I believe I have demolished their argument.

    The clams might use the Equality Act 2006 to argue that their buildings are places of religious congregation and although they don't worship then they should have the same rights as being a "place of worship".

    I've done all the hard work on this. It took me 130 hours to write that document. I would like people to read it and understand it and to be sure that the arguments in it are valid and then really go for these local authorities where they have been recklessly generous with public money. I have put a valuable weapon into the hands of all UK Anons and now it is up to those Anons to fight with this weapon. This OG is going to fade back into the background again. Good luck with using the weapon I gave you.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK
  8. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I just noticed this document which is the application form for mandatory rates relief submitted to the City of London and the whopping lie where it claims it is a South Australian Charity.

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/10257/response/26340/attach/3/Application.pdf

    Note that they are claiming they have mandatory rate relief on their Westminster property. I thought it was discretionary relief. Is it possible to confirm this? I will have to update my document for this.

    Anons, note that once one church gets mandatory relief then it can spread to other boroughs.
  9. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I just reported it as a matter of concern and possible fraud.
  10. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I emailed William Thackeray about the premises at 42 Leinster Gardens, London W2 3AN as I don't see that on his list. It will have been the first borough in the country to grant mandatory rate relief to a Church of Scientology premises.
  11. Random guy Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    This is bloody golden! Now what we need is a written statement from the SA authorities stating that COSRECI is not and has never been registered as a charity in SA, and we hvave a nice case for fraud.
  12. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I saw it was there but a little difficult to find. They have mandatory rate relief. I will update my document.
  13. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    We have the written statement by the Church of Scientology in Australia

    http://l.yimg.com/ea/doc/-/100622/statement_for_today_tonight_22_june_10-1620t64.pdf

    Church of Scientology Religious Education College Inc is an incorporated non-profit association. Whilst it does have charitable purposes as laid out in its Rules of Association, it is not a registered charity in South Australia or with the Australia Taxation Office. Any claims to the contrary are incorrect and this can be confirmed by searching on the government website at ABNLookup - Welcome to ABN Lookup.

    Yup, it looks like fraud.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    A compromise could be to explicitly state that these are the properties as per ... and that you are aware of at least x others not per ... [apols if you've already got this]
  15. charlie Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Just harpooned rates department at CoL with transcript's of the Aussy TV program and the reply letter LOL.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Also needs forwarding to Xenu and Today Tonight. OzCoS have, I think, already provided the necessary contrary evidence document.
  17. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I made that clear in the document. The only deviation I am happy to make is to add 68 TCR but we know nothing about rates relief there.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Roland, do you address back taxes at all? Having worked in UK bureaucracies, I'm sensitive to the appeal of taking the 'least hassle' approach - ie: revoke the status going forward, but not pursue any retrospective action.
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Okay, further to this - I would suggest you strike the 'conclusions' section and replace it with a succinct summary at the top to garner interest.

    And then, suitably humbly, end with a 'recommendations' section, calling for appropriate review, including retrospective considerations, and taxation.
  20. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I didn't address this. It is up to the local councils to pursue this if they wish. I would be very happy just to see them stop getting mandatory or discretionary rates relief. It could close them down in the UK.

    In the document I did mention the minor faux pas of not declaring the $87,160,000 that went into their accounts in 1987 and was never declared on any financial statements.
  21. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    It looks like their left hand didn't know what their right hand was doing.

    Or, more exactly, what their right hand in Australia did many years ago, died/was assigned conditions/blew, and the replacements hatted for the post had no clue about COSRECI or what had to be fixed.

    The staff churn rate, increasing attrition and lack of bodies to fill admin posts must be a serious problem when they need to keep careful track of the lies in each country with Anonymous watching them these days. Their institutional memory has Alzheimer's.
  22. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I see what you mean. Can you give me the wording of a suitable Summary? Should it go after the Introduction or before it? I need help on this.
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Okay - give me (and whomever else wants) a couple of days. I think it will be interesting to see if the summary put together reflects your perception of the essence of the facts you are putting forward in the doc. If it does, great, if not, useful feedback.
  24. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    I just reported this to the City of Westminster council. I had already done this for the City of London council. We'll see what happens. Probably nothing but if enough people make a fuss they may feel obliged to get up off their hands and do something.
  25. charlie Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates


    It has come to my attention that the Church of Scientology at 51 Fawcett St. Sunderland SR1 1RS. might be claiming a business rates reduction, claiming to be a Australian charity.
    Can you confirm of denei this as this would clearly be a case of fraud on the part of CoS

    Here is the response to a Australian TV program. Broadcast Date: June 22, 2010

    http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/269/14453671.jpg image of the statement's and transcript's
  26. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    My email inbox has become the equivalent of a Xmas tree when I was a kid and I am looking forward to new presents being put under it for me to open. :)
  27. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Look cult, my web page aimed at losing you your business rates relief in the UK got a redesign and it is now a better tool for achieving it.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK

    In fact you may be paying back-taxes on your relief after this piece of deliberate fraud on your application form. South Australian Charity indeed, LOL!

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/10257/response/26340/attach/3/Application.pdf

    You had better start giving out gifts to those upstanding officials in the City of London or not only will you be paying £351,680 per year, you'll be paying it retrospectively for the last four years.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    ECHR Scientology v Sweden 1979

    http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int////tkp19...sionId=56267512&skin=hudoc-en&attachment=true

    ECHR Scinology v Sweden 1980

    http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int////tkp19...sionId=56267512&skin=hudoc-en&attachment=true

    ---

    I'd love to know what the reference by the City of London is about (in detail)!!!
  29. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Sorry; I didn't see this until just now.

    If you still need it proofread, just shoot me a PM with the link and I'll dive in.

    I bolded the typos. Also, missing period after "CoS" at end of (sorta) 2nd paragraph.
  30. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    It has already been proof read but if you could scan through it quickly in case something has been missed then I would be grateful.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    For context (ECHR & Sweden) from FOI request in Roland's doc:

    They quoted the wrong act. lol.
  32. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    It threw me for a few hours. Before that they were quoting employment law and I thought to myself "what has this got to do with employment?" and then they quoted the Local Government Act 1988 which is to do with competitive tendering and I was thinking that somehow the local authority were going to get into trouble if they did not offer a contract to the clams so they had to grant them a business rates relief. It jammed up my brain for a while.
  33. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    The first mention of COSRECI has it spelled CORESCI. That should probably be fixed. ;-)

    Also, at the end:
    You accidentally a word in there.

    I scanned the whole document very, very quickly, just getting a feel for the layout and a vague feel for what sort of info is there. Generally it looks like typos aren't going to be a big issue so I'm going to leave that alone (it's soooooo long and full of lolyerese). I would make one suggestion: a table of contents or outline at the beginning, with hotlinks from each entry to the beginning of the corresponding section. This would probably help alleviate a sense of being overwhelmed which I have upon wading into this document. Even though the journey is no shorter, having a map often helps one relax.
  34. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Shit. I didn't write that part.
  35. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Business success plan:

    1. Find scapegoat in case of failure.
    2. ?
    3. Profit!
  36. ScudMuffin Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    You sir, are a legend.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    My bad :-(
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK

    It's like saying writing a paper saying zero isn't a number and then admitting it is. Would suggest changing religion to belief system.

    /pedant
  39. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    A very good point. Thank you. I have sent a new version to the person hosting it and it has a table of contents added and it now has numbered sections. If not visible now it should be later.

    Scientology business rates relief in the UK
  40. RolandRB Member

    Re: Ideal Org London Business Rates

    It's there now. I hope I am close to the final version. What do people think?

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