OK, a contest! How many Iranian secret police do you think are going to read this post? 1-2? 3-4? more? Seriously, personally, I am pretty sure its more than 1 and almost certain its more than zero! In East Germany under the Soviets, the number of spies (that is people secretly reporting on their neighbors reached about 1 per 166 people) "Between 1950 and 1989, the Stasi employed a total of 274,000 persons in an effort to root out the 'class enemy'.[3][4] In terms of total inoffizielle Mitarbeiter (IMs) Stasi informants, by 1995, 174,000 had been identified, which approximated 2.5% of East Germany's population between the ages of 18 and 60.[3] While these calculations were from official records, because many such records were destroyed, there were likely closer to 500,000 Stasi informers.[3] A former Stasi colonel estimated that the figure could be as high as 2 million if occasional informants were included.[3] (see wikipedia article on Stasi)" So what does that mean for us? I think it means that -- we should assume that any technique for circumventing Internet blocking, private communication, etc. becomes public knowledge to the Iranian secret police -- the minute we discuss it. Moreover, we know that the protesters, twitters, etc. who have been arrested are being tortured. "Amnesty International is gravely concerned that several opposition leaders detained in the wake of the 12 June elections may be facing torture, possibly to force them to make televised “confessions” as a prelude to unfair trials in which they could face the death penalty. " (see amnesty international site) Also read the case of Zahra "Ziba" Kazemi-Ahmadaba (see wikipedia). The man who oversaw her torture is in charge of the imprisoned protesters. What does that mean? There is a not so funny comic which pictures a computer geeky guy thinking, "I have AES security, strong passwords, etc. I'm safe." Then two guys come along and say "Lets hit him with this pipe until he tells us the password". The not so funny point is low tech can overcome high tech. In the case of torture, it is my understanding that almost everyone cracks at some point. So our hypothetical protester, will divulge his password, contacts, etc. eventually once arrested. So my thoughts about a secure USB stick are somewhat off the point, unless it can give plausible deniability. What does this mean for us? I don't think it means should give up. However it does mean that we should look for techniques that meet the following very related requirements: 1. Are very good at hiding so you don't get found 2. Are hard to find even if you know they are being used. Also if there is anyway we can make it easier to hide that would be good. Anyway some late night thoughts. My heart goes out to those locked up in Evin Prison.
on rereading my post -- an obvious point I suppose most oppressive governments with decent resources must track internet security technology and counter measures in great detail ...
That's why this is an international effort, one without borders. Anonymity itself can circumvent this to some degree from within Iran. It's a straight nightmare for those locked up for their peaceful political ideals. It makes us proud to be American, or British, or whatever we are. It also makes us long for the day Iran will have a government not so hell bent on wiping entire races of mankind from the map. Let your voices be heard.
your right All of this is the choice of the iranian people. Is it worth the risk of death or torture. The value of Freedom is decided by the protesters. Is not for us to decide. The methods used here are the most secure available. The Iranian people will have developed methods for handling cells. And everyone cracks, yes, and then some. Look at the false Intel USA got from water boarding, and the time wasted tracking it all down. And you are correct about some Basij or MOIS on the forum and IRC. And I would guess the Feds on here too. The users of this forum have Pirates Bay and Anonymous providing security and overwatch. So far they are doing a very Professional work. And their reputations rest on it. But nothing is 100% safe on the Internet. Both of your requirements are foremost in the work. Its a very professional, dedicated group. Gerald Anthropologist .
I have absolutey 0% doubt that there are Iranian and US and several other countries assets in play on this site(Yes as Members not Mods or Owners).. but really with exception of Iranian LEO or military agencies oppresing its citizens and the occasional militant redneck trying to live vicariously through a protestor.. i do not think anyone could find this site less than benificial.. I would go out on a limb and say it is not only serving to provide intelligence for several countries but also crawling with reporters and politicians and even business interests looking for info as well..
I'm sure not only they are reading this site but also they are posting in here. Several times I wanted to answer the pro government posts, but I feared that maybe if I disagree them and start a debate with them, I'll make them angry and... you know the consequences...
didn't mean to suggest not helping -- hey guys -- didn't mean to say that we shouldn't try to help -- just want to aware of the full situation -- and "be careful out there"
Interesting to know how many Iranians do not see this I do not think it matters at all. The purpose of this sight for instance is to provide a tool, contributing to the freedom of speech. Believing in that principle, those contributed inputs are regardless of fear which the topic of this thread might seem to have on the outcome. On the other hand it is very interesting to know how many Iranians do not see this.
Iran's government wised up, but the internet and wireless systems bought a lot of time. Time for the Green Revolution to go low-tech and survive the crackdown. What I'm not seeing on this site right now is a lot of hope, yet it's obviously out there sustaining people because they haven't given up yet. Things are happening that are completely invisible to us--and the Iranian government. I also believe the internet is being used as a tool by all of the countries that have an interest.
DORAH Social Network Thanks be to the Good Old US of A who are sponsoring the dorah website so we can get in touch with each other
Several - from several agencies Yep, my experience is East German, also: so naturally, I always consider Stasi. Though as my mom pointed out in mid-June, East Germany wouldn't have held actual rallies leading up to an election only to mangle an obvious fraud. In other words, I don't believe Iranian intelligence is monolithic. We've already seen evidence of Ahmadi purges within the highest echelons of information/intelligence agencies. What should that tell us? Ahmadi doesn't feel comfortable with these agencies because there are those within them who covertly or otherwise sympathize/support reformers. People within these agencies are in fact people, too. They have families. Many probably have college-age relatives and friends who've bravely demonstrated against this regime-perpetrated fraud. Many are probably wondering to themselves what sort of regime it is they are supporting and why. After all, not many children say to themselves "I want to help oppress innocent people and take away their constitutionally guaranteed freedoms when I grow up." If you're reading all this, agents, you are seeing all our evidence - all our documentation - and you know only 20 of 290 parliamentarians wanted to attend Ahmadi's latest party. You also know which side *really* has the long term momentum, don't you?
Never *ever* is such an agency even close to being as almighty as they would like you to believe. It wasn't in Nazi Germany, in the Soviet Union or East Germany (and everywhere else). But they were all pretty good at spreading their rats far enough to make everyone aware that everyone else they didn't know *could* be one of them. And it makes some kind of sense too (for them): When you're unsatisfied with the conditions you're less likely to openly say so, because, you know, *they* could get wind of it. This builds, to a certain degree, a good wall between people - lowering the risk of them grouping together in greater numbers and realizing they are not alone with their problems. If established "well" enough, like the KGB and similar Soviet organisations were, you can run a country pretty long like this. But - with my eyes on Iran - once this wall gets torn down, because people simply are so outraged that it overcomes their fear of the system... Well... We're seeing how well that works for the regime... Go Green!
