How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Choripan, Feb 16, 2008.

  1. Choripan Member

    How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    I'm spreading the word and have encountered several ultra-individualistic people whose posture is "if scientologists are so stupid as to fall in that scam, they deserve it. They've done nothing to me so I won't do anything to them".

    My blood boils when I see people being abused and unable to defend themselves, so that line of thought doesn't really click in with me. Sure, I understand it, Scientology hasn't done anything to me either! But I don't see that as a reason not to denounce them and trying to stop them from harming others.

    So far I haven't been able to go beyond "what ifs", what if it's someone close to you that gets abducted, what if they are not stopped and gain sufficient real power to control politics and economics, etc.

    But I'm failing at encountering actual current threats and harms done by the Corporation of Sueology, Inc to common people or the body of society.

    Brainfags, enlighten Anonymous! Teach me and all of us, in simple terms and easy-to-grasp concepts! Let's create more quality material for signs and flyers, so we can touch that big segment of the population who just goes "meh I don't care".

    To arms!
  2. anonymous3347 Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Their cult antics devalue the role of faith as one of the threads that make up the fabric of society. (I'm an atheist, but I can still acknowledge the idea that different faiths have to cooperate within a modern society.)

    Useless snake-oil practices hamper the development of real treatments for drug addiction and the mentally ill.

    Time-wasting interference in the penal system preventing prison reform.

    Arrogant abuse of influence and illegal activities undermine the justice system.

    Corruption of the legislative process; the CoS has been allowed to steamroll opposition. The CoS might not have hit upon an issue that concerns you yet, but they will. In a showdown between your vote and the CoS warchest, whom do you think would win, unless something changes?

    Creating miniature police-states. Maintaining an unregulated private prison system.

    Fostering an atmosphere of paranoia and repression that extends far beyond the boundaries of the cult, into the mainstream of society.

    Attempted manipulation of media and stifling of dissent. Using "fair game" tactics, abusing litigation, and outright threats against individuals to the point that it extends to society as a whole.

    Institutionalizing the abuse of families.

    That's what I have been able to come up with. Surely, at least one of these will get the attention of the supremely self-absorbed assholes you hang around with. You might want to look into finding new friends.
  3. BioAnon Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    First response to such a person: Their operation is tax-exempt, and therefore they are in effect being subsidized by taxpayers.

    They aim to destroy an entire profession, psychiatry and psychology.

    They have ambitions of taking over the world.
  4. Me Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    I got involved in this for various reasons, but the more I learn, the more I'm starting to realise that the long-term pattern of abuse and criminality by the "church" is merely a symptom.

    They may use the term "clearing the planet", but their desire's in no way comparable to the desire all religions have to convert.
    The Co$'s aims are social, political and "religous". The way I now see them is as a highly dangerous organisation bent on absolute domination of the world around them, a world which they're doing their best to expand all the time. Albeit with mixed results at the moment. :wink:

    The only country that's really trying to combat this is Germany, who because of their past, I guess appreciates how potentially toxic they are.
    The fact that they appear to be dwindling in some ways, doesn't make their ultimate demise by any means certain.

    In the main, we're of an age-group and type who they'd love to recruit, yet because of the stance we've taken, we've put ourselves amongst those who (in a Scientology world) would likely be disposed of "quietly and without sorrow" to quote Hubbard.

    The fact that they're seen by some as something of a joke is unfortunate, because when you burrow beneath the surface, they're anything but.
  5. Odrade Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Making a mockery of cases of genuine discrimination with their bullshit crying wolf. Seeing DM on that show likening anti-cult commentary on Scientology to the kind of thing Nazi's might say about the Jews, or the KKK might say about black people, made me absolutely sick, and they're still at it now.

    There is NO comparison between criticising an organisation for the abuse of its members and critics, and indiscriminately killing people because they don't fit with your ideas of humanity. Anybody who publicly draws comparisons between criticism and genocide is cheapening the idea of discrimination to the point where it barely means anything other than 'not liking someone' (as well as exploiting the deaths of untold millions of people in order to gag anyone who opposes them), and that affects EVERYONE.
  6. Anonamour Member

    Entertainment Industry Dirty Tricks?

    Some people may consider this aspect trivial but for young people either seeking careers or working in the entertainment industry- film, tv, music- it may a clincher.

    What if the Co$'s involvement in Hollywood and the Entertainment Industry were not as benign as it appears. What if Co$ were to use it's insider status to manipulate careers, projects and cash-flows? What if you had to join the cult to get a career break? What if you had to join to keep your career?

    Michael Jackson is a case in point. This is just a snippet of material I found by digging into the names, projects and timelines involved in MJ's tsunami of "bad luck" that began in the early 1990's. The first molestation accusations against Jackson came to light in Aug 1993 when MJ was at his peak of world-wide celebrity. The matter was quickly settled out of court to the tune of $20 mil and the following year MJ married Lisa Marie Presley, long time Scilon, which means he was in it too. The marriage was short-lived however and subsequent years were an ongoing shitstorm for MJ- bad press, a civil suit for breach of contract from the family of the first abuse case, arrested, tried and aquitted of child sexual abuse IN 2005, all resulting in a derailed career and financial distress.

    Let's look closer at one of the principle actors in MJ's slide into infamy: Evan Chandler, father of MJ's first "victim" and beneficiary of the $20 mil settlement:
    1. There is a taped phone conversation between Evan Chandler (the alleged victim's father) and Dave Schwartz (the allged victim's stepfather) where Chandler says, "Everything's going according to a certain plan that isn't just mine... and if I go through with this, I win big time. There's no way I lose. I've checked that inside out. I will get everything I want, and they will be destroyed forever. June will lose [custody of the son]... and Michael's career will be over." This tape was played all over news networks and also on the Prime Time Live interview with Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley in 1994. It seems, however, that the media has conveniently forgotten about it.

    2. Evan Chandler, a dentist by trade, got co-writing credits for Robin Hood Men in Tights (1993) with JD Shapiro:

    3. JD Shapiro co-wrote the screenplay for Battlefield Earth (2000):

    Yes it's circumstantial and speculative, but should provoke some questions and warrant an investigation.

    Further reading from GQ 1994:
    The untold story of the events that brought down a superstar.

    Edit: gave it a title
  7. Anonamour Member

    Scientology's Lobbying and Public Relations Campaign in Amer

    Co$ is able to influence US foreign policy through lobbying campaigns and friendly connections (Bill Clinton, Richard Armatige, Neil Bush.) A major Co$ effort has been to get the US government to formally pressure Germany into accept Co$ and legitimize it's religious status.

    Warning Wallo-text:

    More recently it was Tom Cruise, Tommy Davis and Kurt Weilland who met with Richard Armitage in the Whitehouse. Though it has never been revealed what was discussed- it was bearly even reported on- overturning the Germany "issue" is still a major objective for these boys. ... 0936040912

    Also Co$'s history of vicious litigation does impact how the cult gets covered in the news media which may be why we get such poor coverage of Co$'s access to the White House.
  8. Anonamour Member

    Evidence: CoS Influence US Foreign Policy

    U.S. Criticizes Germany on Scientology; Report Will Attack Policies That Target Members of Church

    The Washington Post
    January 27, 1997
    Thomas W. Lippman

    The State Department's annual survey of human rights conditions around the world will contain expanded, toughened language criticizing Germany for restrictions on the Church of Scientology and its members, administration officials said.

    The report, to be issued Wednesday, will chastise Germany for what a senior administration official called "a campaign of harassment and intimidation" against the controversial church. He said the United States, seeking to protect religious freedom, has urged Germany through diplomatic channels "not to prosecute people for wrong thinking" but has been rebuffed.

    The German response is, "We won't change our policy, no matter what you say," a German ...
  9. Anonamour Member

    Scientology Shaping Public Opinion and Profiting

    Never mind their efforts to discredit psychiatry, Co$ is actively involved in defrauding parents of Autistics by promoting the idea that mercury in vaccinations causes Autism (thoroughly debunked though widely popular) and selling alternative therapies like chelation. Autistics are neurally different from non autistics in that the mirror neurons in their brains function differently and their brains actually grow faster and larger (about 10%) from birth. There is no way that expensive vitamins, diets or saunas are ever gonna change that.

    I'm on the spectrum myself (along with a surprisingly large number of other people) and I can tell you, this makes my blood boil as well as scaring the shite out of me:

    Warning: Wallo text

    The list goes on and freakily on.


    Edit: I can go on and on like this. Is this helping or scaring Anon's away?
  10. 1suomynona1 Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Democratic countries are based on the principle that all people are born equal, and all share the capacity for rational thought. Scientology uses hypnotism and coercion to disrupt the basic mental faculties that we all have. It does not allow people to express their right to practice, or not practice, religion, rather it uses tactics to stop them from being able to make rational choices.

    I think there is good evidence that Scientology hates Democracy, because it hates people making judgments and expressing their free will. I live in a country that has always been democratic to some degree, Scientology wants to subvert the very basis that my country is founded on. Hubbard says that only Scientologists should have the right to vote, which is in completely opposition to the principle of liberal-democratic countries that religion is a private matter, but people's commitment to democracy should be held by all.
  11. MCanon Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    One of the large problems that worry me is the sheer amount of connections the CoS has in the world of rehabilitation. They have their hands in narcanon, the suicide hotline and other organizations dedicated to the aid of those in need. This may seem like they are fighting the good fight to help people, but in reality, I see it more as a recruitment program. It is incredibly simple to recruit people who have been broken down at the most basic of levels, especially through drug addiction. Narcanon (not to be confused with Narcotics anonymous) was founded by L. Ron Hubbard and is a new age treatment program of drug rehabilitation. It utilizes a cold turkey effect, by giving excess amounts of vitamins and "assists," which is a form of "spiritual healing" and is, in reality, a form of new age healing by laying your hands on their body and releasing their past problems and bringing them into the now. These assists are also a scientology practice, even though Narcanon claims it has no direct connection into scientology.

    I could ramble on and on about this subject, but will just give a link to a very helpful and educational website on the subject

    It's this type of connection that harms those who are in serious need of help and treatment and, thus harm society as a whole.
  12. Anonamour Member

    Covert Inculcation of Co$ Values

    For me, the Co$ penchant for setting up front groups to further their hidden agendas is the one thing that is the most damaging to societies as a whole. On a simplistic level it's just so much Lie and that is always toxic. On a deeper level, they are covertly massaging public opinions towards acceptance of Co$ values and agendas- like with their Autism campaign. Their utilization of apparently unaffiliated do-gooder non-profits trick well-meaning people into aligning themselves with the Scilon ethic which we know is morally corrupt, brutalizing and inhumane. This is like social engineering for recruitment- inculcate the values covertly until they're internalized by the general public, then joining C0$ will just seem like good sense.

    :lrhtalking: Lies lies lies lies lies lies lies....
  13. fluffbomb Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    I've posted a couple of times about what I think their main threats to society are.

    But the one thing that concerns me above all else is that they view themselves as superior to others.
    They have the belief from L Ron that those below a certain "spiritual benchmark" (one that they have decided upon) are sub-standard, and can be destroyed.
    They have tried to refute this by suggesting that these are old theories not connected to their modern church, but that is clearly not the case as can be witnessed through their practices of "fair game".

    When you have an elitist group who have such disregard for a large number of the human race, they become increasingly dangerous as their power grows. A good reference for this is Hitler and the Nazi regime.

    They've gained a stronghold in the USA, they have fortified camps and bases, they have connections in positions of leadership.

    I have no doubt that, once they reach a certain level of power and influence, they would deem any who oppose as "collateral", to be disposed of in any way they see fit. This would of course mean genocide. Again, reference Nazi Germany.

    They are a group of people breeding psychological disorder through their practices (amongst their members) and what makes it worse is that they also refute proven psychological treatments, allowing schizophrenia, OCD, depression, and any number of other severe mental disorders to develop and progress unchecked and untreated. It's a spiral of complete lunacy that is allowed to flourish, in fact it seems to be encouraged!

    It only takes one to look at footage of long-standing members (during bull baiting for example) to see that they exhibit classic symptoms of various psychological disorders from severe paranoia, to agoraphobia, to depression and social dysfunction (no offence to those already out of the cult, but I'm sure you of all people understand what I mean). The people ensnared in this trap are usually already insecure, mentally unstable, depressed or weakened in some way. The actions of the cult then develops these problems while denying recognised treatments.

    It is my strong belief that if this group of people are allowed to continue without protest, they will increase in power and influence. They will destroy modern medicine, allowing more and more people to fall into their trap as it will be the false solution to have replaced such recognised treatment. They will gain power through continued infiltration of leadership, again increasing the avenues through which people are brought to the cult.

    Eventually, they will be in a position to arbitrarily extinguish any who oppose them; that % of people that they label as Suppressive Persons. Again, see "the final solution".

    So, for me it goes far beyond the lunacy of beliefs, the greed, the corruption and the threatening behaviour. This is about preventing a disgusting cult from deciding the fate of all who disagree with their beliefs.
  14. Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    John Peeler/BTs2Free (in the "church" for over two decades) stated on this site, that the ultimate goal of Co$ and the Sea Org is to "take over the mental and governmental roles of this planet". This is one of the reasons they have such a long track record of infiltrating Governments.
    I thought it was a very telling comment, as it puts a lot of stuff into context.
  15. southernstate Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    The thing that scares me the most about Scientology is how they view the world of mental health. I have been taking Zoloft for four years, since I was a freshman in college, and when I started taking it, I was sleeping 18 hours a day and suffering from PTSD from a bad car accident. I'd been depressed most of my life, but after the car accident I became almost catatonic. I couldn't drive, I gained weight, and I failed several of my classes to the point where I had to drop down to a half-time student.

    And I'm not the first person in my family to go through this sort of mother and her father have both been hospitalized for depression, and my mother's sister is schizophrenic.

    All in all, I credit Zoloft and a sympathetic GP for saving my life. The thing that really sucks about it though, is that I still don't like to tell employers or friends (until I get to know them well) that I struggle with depression. It's still perfectly acceptable in our society to think that people with mental diseases--not just depression, but also things like eating disorders, ADD, any number of things--could get over their problems if they just WANTED it hard enough, or that they could think their way out.

    Scientology makes this battle even harder, as they are constantly in the news for saying things like postpartum depression isn't real. And everything I've read about Scientology seems to blame the invidiual for these sorts of problems. If you're depressed, you've receieved bad tech, or you're not confessing everything during auditing, or you're not a Scientologist, for starters. Depression is your fault and you obviously don't want to be cured.
  16. Hostile Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    well, I think that it limits currency circulation. once money goes into cos, it stays there for a long time. (they pay their workers with their own money, who in turn, pay that money back to reach the next ot level)

    wait... zomg, only 1200 moar $$ until i hit next ot lvl! *grind....*

    anyway back on topic, it also promotes less free speech (even on youtube and yahoo)
  17. tanon Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Accept that this is the reality, but realize that you can still reach these people. I would say that at one point, I did think like that. I am a cynical person. So what changed my opinion more than anything?
    CHILDREN! There is nothing worse than exploiting and abusing children. All children raised in the cult (as far as I can tell) are mentally and emotionally abused. Many are physically and / or sexually abused and this seems to be always covered up. Brainwashed, used as slave labor, and denied their right to a proper education. This is the most horrendous thing in my eyes.
    I am going to try and break down some critical issues on their importance to me. I'm going to try and hopefully make some points, but I am going to be critical and.. apologetic I guess. I apologize if I ramble.

    1 - Child abuse, slave labor, brainwashing, and starved of education. Points above. This is sickening! Unfortunately, sometimes it is hard to get these stories, they are not as highlighted and slightly less widespread than some other things, but again, revolting! Scientology has no defense for this except lies and slander, and their 'apostate' rhetoric. I think you guys should make this a big issue, even the most cynical person hates child abuse.
    2 - Disconnection of families. Everybody who has a good family and / or circle of friends can relate to this! Everybody can relate to this. It's very disturbing, and people recognize this immediately as 'cult-like'. Of course Scientology repeats their slanderous rhetoric, but I mean aside from the tons of critics who can verify this, the most recent and high-profile is probably Jenna Miscavige. I think the information of the break-up of David Miscavige's own family by Scientology is so incredibly damning, you need to highlight and repeat this information, in my opinion.
    3 - 'Fair game', endless litigation / harassment. In some ways, this can be viewed as the most important issue. I think most of us who enjoy the right to free speech, would consider it among the most beautiful things we have. But some people are easily offended / too fucking sensitive. The church's line is they don't 'fair game' anymore, but you should still make a point of Operation Freakout, and the laundry list of recent lawsuits / threats / harassment. The church's other line is copyright law, but there is evidence of their massive copyright fraud. Also, there is no other religion going around suing people.

    4 - Brainwashing / Slave labor. This is all very disturbing. The counter-point is that many religious people (monks) choose lives of poverty and that 'brainwashing' exist in all religions. From a cynical standpoint this argument makes sense. So when you talk about these things, you need to dig deeper than just saying 'They brainwash people. They make people slaves.' You need to highlight how they abuse people, and how they make people afraid for their safety so that they resist the urge to leave the religion, out of pure fear.
    5 - Anti-psychiatry, anti-meds. People do over-medicate in our society, and certain drug companies are certainly just in it for the profit. That's a fact. Psychiatry has certain corrupt elements. So it is good to remember that Scientology thinks ALL drugs are totally harmful and unnecessary (which has resulted in many deaths within their ranks), and they think that ALL psychiatry is harmful. I don't know how a Scientologist can defend their total absolute stance on this, and they will probably not deny it at all. I think it is a good thing to highlight, it shows their totalitarian ways and their belief that Scientology is the only answer. There are many more terrible deaths in Scientology due to this stance than just Lisa McPherson.
    6 - Shady IRS dealings. It is a good goal to get their tax-exempt status removed, it is a good point to make, but I don't know if it's something you want to talk about all the time at protests. I don't know. The IRS is a very corrupt organization, they were probably blackmailed by Scientology because they have some bad dirt on them. If that is the case, they are obviously more worried about this dirt coming to light than anything. Both organizations are dirty, so you can't really appeal to the IRS anyways, but perhaps correspondence with local government officials and other methods, would be fruitful. I think at protests, focusing on the more human aspects of the church, or lack thereof, is a good way to go. I think it will get more people on your side and perhaps to join your cause.

    7 - Lies and crimes of L. Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige. Maybe this should be higher, it is very intriguing at the least to read all the dirt, very intriguing. I just don't know that it is something that will really get people to rally to the cause, it's intriguing but... there are corrupt leaders everywhere, some that are much more powerful.
    8 - Big money $cam. I always knew it was a scam, and I was cynical, I didn't really care. There are lots of silly scams that seem a lot more clever than Scientology. I always thought it was a big joke. And to the average layman, they know they are never going to go to a Church of Scientology, so why would they care? This seems to be one of the least important when compared to some of the other things about the church. I think it is focused on too much, in my opinion the human aspects are far more horrific than the financial ones. Of course, you can make this humanistic when you show how people have been ruined financially. But again, one of the least important issues to me.

    I think I covered most points... so my big point that I am trying to make is, I think you focus perhaps too much on the financial thing. I think the human aspects should be focused on more. The break up of families, and especially the living conditions of children in the religion. I think if you hammer these points, you will get more and more people to realize what a destructive cult Scientology is.

    [EDIT]: I forgot a point: Those crazy beliefs. A mixed bag, the evils are things like 'fair game', reasons for lawsuits, and perhaps worst are the documents relating to SPs and R2-45s. Also, isn't there something about 'disposing' of massive amounts of people who are low on the 'tone scale' (sounds like genocide)? These things are scary and wrong. They can and should be publicized.

    As for all the space opera, it's not important but it is. They try to hide all this stuff and that's what makes it intriguing to find out about. When their beliefs are laughed at they cry 'hate crime hate crime' but rational people know better. I have to say this, I really like seeing people having fun at the protests. Yes, it is serious, but when people are standing up for what they believe in together, and having fun, it's like... beautiful n' stuff. :lrhcries:
  18. AnonMomAnon Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    for me: ditto on everything tanon just wrote---good job.
  19. Anonamour Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    All the human tragedy stuff is nice and makes for great soundbites but let's face it, this is a militaristic organization whose stated objective is to convert every person on the planet to Scientology. They are working towards this objective in more ways than just recruitment.

    I'm going to use this forum as a microcosm, representative of the macrocosm. Say an OSA team gets smart and successfully infiltrates this board. Over time, by increments that you may not notice the OSA team gradually redirects the purpose and focus of the Anons here towards their aims. Then you might find yourself participating in discussions about the importance of "saving the world"; you might find a new leadership in place, even find yourself agreeing that we needed leadership; you might find groups of Anons being directed to go out and harass critics of Anonymous. And worse.

    That's the sort of shit Co$ is pulling off in the world right now with it's access to the White House, campaigns against psychiatry, western medicine and treatment of Autistics, the association of celebrity and glamor with CoS, their environmentalist campaigns, involvement with the Remote Viewing phenomena and all the rest. Do you believe in Remote Viewing? You've heard of it right? That was Co$. How about mercury in vaccinations damaging children? That's Co$. Are you worried about the extinction crises? That's them too. Right now they are stepping up their human rights campaigns so I guess that will be next meme embed.

    They are socially engineering us towards a world view that they have chosen for us and we have no idea. That is how they harm and threaten those of us not in the Cult.
  20. Me Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Thought this official quote might be helpful, as it covers quite a lot of ground:

    Kenneth Robinson, when he was the (UK) Minister of Health had the following to say:

    "The government is satisfied that Scientology is socially harmful. It alienates members of families from each other and attributes squalid and disgraceful motives to all who oppose it; its authoritarian principles and practice are a potential menace to the personality and well being of those so deluded as to become followers; above all, its methods can be a serious danger to the health of those who submit to them... There is no power under existing law to prohibit the practice of Scientology; but the government has concluded that it is so objectionable that it would be right to take all steps within its power to curb its growth."
  21. fluffbomb Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    That is probably the most effective response to encompass everything that we want to say. I think this should be included in materials handed out at the next protest.

    I just wish the UK would do something similar.
  22. Anonamour Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    A direct quote from WBM's interview with WikiNews:

  23. WMAnon Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    1) Don't you think that people should be able to look into Co$ before getting scammed? How are they supposed to make an informed decision if the Church blocks all attempts to educate the public about their organization?

    2) CHILD ABUSE! I know it seems like a cheap tactic, but if your friends are anything like my mother (grrrr) they won't accept the notion than any adult can be coerced into something like this without deserving it. Kids, on the other hand, certainly did not sign up for this sh*t.

    3) Lost tax revenue. I'm sure there's something your friend thinks should be better funded (maybe the pell grants he's not getting, street lights, something) and the taxes that aren't getting paid on those "donations" and classes could make the difference.
  24. tigger Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Blaming the victim because supposely an OT can control everything.
    Leaving society to pick up the pieces when they "offload" someone who has a real problem.
    Always needing a "bad guy" when things are wrong, and taking punitive measures against whomever they pick as the bad guy, both internal & external.
    Having no compassion for the downtrodden, handicapped, or dysfunctional, and even mocking them because "it's their own fault" or they are "degraded human beings".
    The sin of pride -- I'm spiritual, but not traditional in my beliefs. However, at bottom, I believe there is some personal responsibility here. People continue into Scientology because they want to be gods, and that lack of humility, that desire to control others, is a genuine character flaw that they disguise with hollow words about wanting to help others. There's a quintessential self-centeredness and selfishness to it that repels me.

    The same unthinking zeal is present in lots of endeavors, though. Many want to help, but really as a controlling behavior -- to make others be like they want them to be, or believe what they want them to believe. There are strings attached. In Scientology, there are always strings.
  25. joeybsmash Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    The scariest thing (to me at least) that Co$ does is the suppression of free speech of an individual by a private organization. Their actions against critics set a very dangerous precedent. Imagine a world where Wal-mart or Microsoft can silence you for being critical.
    I don't want to live in that world.
    That's why I got involved.
    Every day we allow the Co$ to exist brings us one step closer to the totalitarianism of the the wealthy.
  26. lermanet_com Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    re scientology claims for remote viewing as well as cia/nsa/irs connections

    Hash: SHA1

    There is a website I consider 50% disinfo - ( or something like that ) that alleges scientology is involved with remote viewing.. again, this is an effort to legitimize scientology to its deluded members, by implying you can get super duper powers from it.... however.. it is like all of their claims, a performance art.. it also claims that scientology is owned by the IRS in order to scare its ex-members from coming forward.

    While it is true, that remote viewer Ingo Swann and another one did do some scientology stuff, in Mr Swann's own story, he stated that he never considered himself a scientologist, and that the people involved in that program desperately tried all kinds of things to see if it would be useful.. including trying scientology..and then walked away from it...In the book Psychic Warrior, by David Morehouse.. about his role in the Military remote viewing progams, at Ft Meade, he revealed that they used "cool down" meditation tapes from the Monroe Institute outside of Charlottesville.

    The National Archives recently made available most of the "protocols" of the original Stanford RV program, the same one often cited by scientology as a testimonial.. because a couple of those involved had tried scientology... as noted above. got copies of them a few weeks ago and turns out there is NO Scientology stuff in them. I've seen 'em. So there is no merit to it.

    And my contacts tell me they are detested by NSA...and by the CIA... and the rest of the known agencies...the retired NSA guys I met down at The Alpine (best italian food in Arlington, the owner, Romano, is the cook) agreed.. they detest scientology...with the same passion anyone might who really knew what they are all about.
    Arnie Lerma Exposing the CON since 1996
    - ----

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    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
  27. Re: Entertainment Industry Dirty Tricks?

    You aren't completely alone in thinking of the marriage of Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie Presley as an example of Scientology meddling in the lives of celebrities. There have been scores of posts on about it[/url:2jpglbvl]. At least one person has suggested that Scientology wished to blackmail The King of Pop[/url:2jpglbvl]. However, I don't know if anyone in that newsgroup has connected the dots the way you did. That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it many mean that you're original. In fact, you may have come up with an original enough idea that it's worth crossposting it to both alt.religion.scientology and Who knows, you might attract the Hater Goon Cabal of AMMJ into ARS. That would be good for lots of LULZ. :twisted:
  28. Anonamour Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Oldfart, have as much fun as you want with that. BTW that is only one little nugget of the material around the CoS/MJ blackmail angle. Don't let them off the hook with out looking at the other players. It's a real mess.

    And Arnie
    Agreed. Remote Viewing is a scam to make people think they can get super powers with the right tech but...

    The links between CoS, SRI and the Remote Viewing Program are more numerous than just Ingo Swann. It's too much for me to lay out here without extensive reviewing and I'd prolly botch it anyway. For a decent investigation of the whole scam check out these articles: ... ork-to-do/ ... -part-one/ ... -part-two/ ... art-three/ ... ge-part-4/
  29. Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Oh, I plan on it. I'm on speaking terms with the Hater Goon Cabal of AMMJ (the trolls who make fun of the rabid MJ fans there) and am familiar with some of the players on ARS. I also know other groups on USENET who have no use for Co$ and would likely enjoy the spectacle. :twisted:
    Oh? Do tell! :examine:
  30. lermanet_com Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Here is one harm to society as a whole

    In scientology you are conditioned to demand results NOW and add them all up, every week, at Thursday at 2PM
    There is management only by statistics in scientology, for that week.. Hubbard IMO wanted eveyrthing done NOW because he knew this day was coming when the scam wold all fall down. Scientology's real problem is that is was never designed nor intended to last this long.

    Corporate America makes most of its decisions based upon what will be good for each quarterly earnings report.

    What happened to what I thought was the American way, the prudent way, to manage business affairs? Where you have customers for life, and try to do the right thing in the long run, including caring for those who helped you succeed?

    In American Indian lore, decisions are based on what is the best thing to do for the 7th son. That is, the 7th generation ahead. When you manage for 7 generations ahead, you have to care for the environment, instead of continuously gang raping the earth for raw materials.

    Compare tribal planning of the 7th son to Thursday at 2PM, Humans are not statistics.
  31. anonymusicz Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    bump for more
  32. subrosa Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    OTOH, playing devils advocate for a moment. $cientology DOES collect weak-minded and weak-willed people and keep them together. For humanity as a whole, this could be a good thing many years from now. There may come a time when we (humanity) actually ADVOCATE
    that type of individual join the $cilons, so we (humanity) can keep track of them.
    Let them do their witchcraft with the cans etc., at least ALL THE REST OF US will know where they are!

    /Deviladvocatemode /off
  33. subrosa Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    sorry, cocks
  34. meatpin Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    There are a couple things that come to mind when I hear about the 'meh...' attitude.
    It does not address the OP's point about CO$, but rather points out the problem with the apathetic. Both these are old and well-known.

  35. WTF Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    What society?
  36. none given Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Honestly I'm not sure it is worth your time.

    There are whole nations who century after century prove that they are unable to hold together even a little bit of civilization. When they have a drought we send them food. The warlords then sell the food and buy ammunition to shoot each other with.

    People who have a self serving view of morality have no view of morality. You would be better off spending your time teaching a dog to sing.

    But if it feels good you can go ahead and explain to them why people like them are what is wrong with the world. Let them know how wonderful life would be if there were no people like them.
  37. moarxenu Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    This is a good question that I have been pondering for months trying to craft an appeal to social justice minded Catholics and mainline Christians, What I have come up with is:

    Scientology is dangerous to our society because it has significantly suppressed free speech in major institutions of society and is infiltrating all of them seeking the control or destruction of many of them including:

    1. The government
    2. The media
    5. The legal profession
    3. The medical profession
    3. The mental health care profession
    4. The Churches
    6. The internet

    I have included the Churches because the behavior of the VMs at Ground Zero shows that they blocked religious as well as secular counselors and because Christian counseling is suffused with the theory and practice of contemporary psychology.

    The seven themes of the Catholic social teaching gives a good idea of the theoretical basis of the approach mainline churches. Evangelicals tend to be less social justice-minded and moar likely to be motivated by scil's teaching about Jesus and its connection with the occult.

    The social justice program of Blessed Sacrament parish located five minutes from Hubbard Way in Hollywood is typical of mainline social justice practice. This is a Catholic parish run by an authentic religious order (unlike the phony Sea Org) the Jesuits, who have much influence because of their large network of universities and leadership in academic theology and philosophy.

    The rest of the most objectionable practices primarily damage individuals in the Sea Org, and imo are secondarily damaging to society to the extent that we ought not tolerate crime and human rights abuse in any organization in society.

    I also think researching the reasons and the supporting arguments made by Germany's Office for the Defense of the Constitution (Verfassungschutz) to arrive at judging sci to be an organization inimical to the Constitution and deserving special surveillance.
  38. mrfyde Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    The CCHR would like to stop all drugs that Scientology apposes the whole society can be harmed not only because some people may not be able to get their medication but also people not on their medication are also a danger to themselves and others. (ie women that kill their kids and kids that kill their family)
  39. JFawkeson Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    Damn it, I'm in for selfish reasons. A good number of my family members would die withing a couple of weeks if the Scilons got their way about drugs.

    OK, not just selfish, though. Setting aside drugs, meatpin's quotes are exactly why I can't be apathetic in this situation. Now that I know how fucked up Scientology really is, I can't sit back and do nothing. I'd like to say I've learned a little bit from society's past mistakes and I'd rather not be doomed to repeat them.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: How does CoS harm society as a whole? (brainstorm please!)

    World can't handle another Dark Ages, it's that fuckin simple. The energy / resources they suck out of societies in an effort to promote their agenda while sucking money out of the economy and of government programs, then the energy spent in stopping from doing so, alone is enough reason to do all we can to get rid of their shit.

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