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Historical Research On The War Between The States (contains graphic images)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Johnny_Reb_1865, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. fishypants Moderator


    Evidently your local churches are unusually humane. Many churches are rather bloodthirsty.



    That's also the impression I get.
  2. Random guy Member


    I suppose I'm spoilt.
  3. [quote="Random guy, post: 2487359, member: 23400"]I'm sorry, where I come from Christianity has something to do with "thou shalt not kill" and all that jazz. The churches are usually the first in line protesting involvements in war and to try to help the victims of war. I'm not a particularly religious guy nor a pacifist, but I do respect their principled stance. Either you believe ten commandments as a guidance or you don't. I could not take more than 10 minutes of this guys fawning over a blood drenched solider.[/quote]


    "]I'm sorry, where I come from Christianity has something to do with "thou shalt not kill" and all that jazz. The churches are usually the first in line protesting involvements in war and to try to help the victims of war. I'm not a particularly religious guy nor a pacifist, but I do respect their principled stance. Either you believe ten commandments as a guidance or you don't."

    It's the same thing over here...

    However this kind of sermon was not the normal thing for the pastor to do.
    But it wasn't a normal ocation ethier.

    "I could not take more than 10 minutes of this guys fawning over a blood drenched solider."

    Just to be frank about it they are all "blood drenched" they where soldiers it's what they did and do as a profesion.
    The point of the sermon was that Forrest was a christain soldier.

    "No, you are trying to construct a narrative where Lincoln was the ultimate bigot and a negro-hater, and the South a group of jolly people who welcomed the blacks into their arms as soon as slavery was collapsing. In short, you are trying to make Jefferson Davis' apologetic post-war "lost cause" look reasonable. In the process, you stray close to radicalization."

    I am trying to show the other side of the story.
    The side that you don't hear.

    Over here you only hear the narrateive where the union was this humanitarian army of godly soldiers that they fought to free the slaves.
    And that lincoln was this...hero....



    Are you familiar with the Lincoln Memorial??

  4. I'm sorry you feel that way.
  5. Random guy Member

    So was a lot of soldiers. The Germans had Got mit Uns (God is with us) on their belt buckles. A soldier having the guts to refuse killing out of conscience would be something to sermon over, or at least someone publicly taking a stance against it later in life. Forester doesn't strike as that kind of guy.


    You won't get through with that by presenting a skewed picture. Also, the implied whitewashing of the South remove whatever merit there would have been to your argument.


    I am now (thanks to the internet :)).

    Impressive monument, but kind of odd. In these parts of the world, apothesis of former state leaders went out of fashion with the Roman paganism.
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  6. The Internet Member

    In my Yankee school, we learned the war was “brother against brother,” and escalated to levels of extreme cruelty and scorched earth tactics. There were so many bodies of Union soldiers to load onto freight trains north that people invented modern embalming to handle the horrible mess.

    May we never forget this terrible tragedy, and never repeat it.

    I do think Lincoln was remarkably fair minded in many ways. He even put someone from the opposing political party into his cabinet, to guard against groupthink.
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  7. Random guy Member


    You have linked to that book before, and I have read parts of it. It does not pertain to the discussion other as an attempt to whitewash the institution of slavery because some people were able to thrive despite their condition. It does not detract from the fact that the South seceded to conserve slavery, nor that slavery is a barbaric institution.
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  8. fishypants Moderator

  9. Random guy Member

    I s'pose. The Lincoln memorial is perhaps just a bit more obvious about it.
  10. The Wrong Guy Member

  11. Hugh Bris Member

    We called him Governor Moonbeam the first time around. Guess not much has changed.
    from the article:
    It's demagoguery, nothing more. I suppose now, since they didn't ban the currency with slaves depicted on it, we'll hear how racist Moonbeam is. Or maybe, it just shows how narrowly politicians view the world. Bitch and moan about an image of a flag, and ignore the images of slaves. Yep, your tax dollars at work.
  12. It wont just stop with California it'll keep going on and on until every monument, and every flag is gone.
    Once we get to that point where it's all gone what will we have accomplished?
  13. gettysburg-dead.jpg

    "May we never forget this terrible tragedy, and never repeat it."

    Danm straight Internet.....
  14. campmorton1.jpg

    Elmira Prison New York....Better known as Hellmira....




    For Hoffman, prison management was a matter of efficiency, reducing the human component of men behind bars and walls to an accountant's sort of calculation on food and fuel per man ratios. Proudly at war's end he turned back to the War Department hundreds of thousands of dollars that he had saved at the expense of the health, nourishment, and comfort of his prisoners.
  15. Random guy Member


    I guess that's what we call symbol politics, like a country declaring themselves a nuclear free zone when they didn't have any nuclear arms in the first place. The only real change is that there's one less item carried in government shops, it's not like it's an actual ban.
  16. fishypants Moderator

    https://medium.com/human-parts/douc...l-slur-weve-all-been-waiting-for-a2323002f85d
    • Like Like x 2
  17. The problem with this is that some pepole think that what they where taught in school is all they need to know and then they shut themselves out from anything that contradicts what they where taught.

    Slavery was and is a moral wrong and I am not defending it in anyway whatsoever but what I will say is that American slavery didn't just happen in the South it (shockingly to most pepole) happened in the north as well but yet they just act as if it's just the South that's to blame and that they are not at fault in any way at all.

    And the worst part about it?

    THEY DON"T DO THE RESEARCH!!!!!

    For example: When the first slaves came to this land in the 1600's they arived on ships built, owned, and operated by Northern companys into New England.

    And whenever some idiot shoots up a place in Alabama while shouting "White Power" many pepole's atomatic responce is "Well it's the South" as if the North wasn't a bigoted place as well.

    These pepole are delusional simple minded fools.......

  18. Here is the Norris case and below you will find the Testimony of Wesley Norris regarding his story of being wipped by General Lee at his plantation.
    But I am having some problems with this.


    “My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years; I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to “lay it on well,��? an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done. After this my cousin and myself were sent to Hanover Court-House jail, my sister being sent to Richmond to an agent to be hired; we remained in jail about a week, when we were sent to Nelson county, where we were hired out by Gen. Lee’s agent to work on the Orange and Alexander railroad; we remained thus employed for about seven months, and were then sent to Alabama, and put to work on what is known as the Northeastern railroad; in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom; I have nothing further to say; what I have stated is true in every particular, and I can at any time bring at least a dozen witnesses, both white and black, to substantiate my statements: I am at present employed by the Government; and am at work in the National Cemetary on Arlington Heights, where I can be found by those who desire further particulars; my sister referred to is at present employed by the French Minister at Washington, and will confirm my statement."

    Testimony of Wesley Norris (1866); reprinted in “Slave Testimony: Two Centuries of Letters, Speeches, and Interviews, and Autobiographies;��? edited by John W. Blassingame; Baton Rouge: Louisiana State University Press (ISBN 0-8071-0273-3.)



    Now to the question of 'Did This Really Happen?' Checking the Alexandria census for 1860, I found no one named Richard or Dick Williams, and no one named Williams who is a constable. It's interesting that there are many people named Williams on the Alexandria census who appear to be free blacks. I also couldn't find anyone living in Alexandria named Gwin or anything similar. Surely some Lee researcher has checked this part of the story, but at the moment I have no evidence of either person mentioned in the Norris account. We also have nothing from Lee himself about this incident, which seems unusual to me.

    Lee indicated earlier (1856) that he regarded slavery as a political and moral evil. But being confronted with a management problem involving slaves and forced to make a decision about punishment was another thing. In my opinion the Norris story sounds reasonable, but right now I have nothing to confirm the story as factual.



    And most of Norris' statement cannot be checked or verified.
    But there's a few inconsisetncys here.

    Norris:
    In this account he escapes.
    "...in January, 1863, we were sent to Richmond, from which place I finally made my escape through the rebel lines to freedom..."

    But in this account he's given a pass to go through the lines-

    "Wesley Norris, a free negro, came into our lines from Culpeper yesterday about sunset....He states that he left Richmond on Friday last, with a pass form General Custis Lee, to go through our lines via Culpeper."

    Something just doesn't add up here.



    http://todayatbrandystation.blogspot.com/2011/09/report-of-wesley-norris.html
  19. The Greensborough Patriot
    May 7, 1861
    Page 1

    "Negroes Volunteering."
    "About fifty three negroes in Amelia county have offered themselves to the Government for any service.

    In our neighboring city of Petersburg two hundred free negroes offered for any work that might be assigned to them, either to fight under white officers, dig ditches, or anything that could show their desire to serve Old Virginia. In the same city, a negro hackman came to his master, and insisted, with tears in his eyes, that he should accept all his savings, $100, to help equip the volunteers. – The free negroes of Chesterfield have made a similar proposition. Such is the spirit among bond and free, through the whole of the State. The fools and scoundrels who calculate on a different state of things, will soon discover their mistake."


  20. Hillsborough (NC) Recorder
    June 12, 1861
    Page 3

    "FIENDISH OUTRAGE BY YANKEE TROOPS"

    "Under the heading of “latest from Fortress Monroe,” the Baltimore “South,” of Wednesday afternoon publishes the following:
    “Great excitement has been produced at Old Point by an outrage perpetrated by government soldiers on Saturday last. It appears that a party of them had gone to a gentleman’s house nearby, and assaulted a young lady some sixteen years of age, with the design to outrage her person. Her father, an aged man, came to her assistance, when these fiends seized him, and threatened his life if he raised an alarm; and with a revolver pointed at his head, he was forced to witness the consummation of their villainous purpose upon the person of his child. General Butler was yesterday engaged in examining into the case, but the result had not transpired when the steamer left. Constant complaints are being made to the officers there, by persons living in the vicinity, whose lands and dwellings have been invaded by the government soldiers, who steal whatever they fancy from their houses, and carry off chickens, sheep and hogs whenever they can find them."
  21. Hillsborough Recorder (NC)
    May 15, 1861
    Page 2

    "THE CONSTITUTION SUBVERTED"

    "We believe the Rail-Splitter, in the brief space of two months, has trampled under foot every important provision of the Constitution. A brief summary will put the reader in possession of the facts.
    The power to declare war is by Constitution expressly confined to Congress; and it must be war against a foreign nation—not one of the States of the Confederacy. The right to make war on a State was emphatically refused to Congress by the Convention which framed the Constitution.
    Lincoln has usurped this dictatorial war power, and is now waging war against eight of the sovereign States by his own authority.
    To raise and support armies is the special prerogative of Congress. Lincoln is assembling an army of 75,000 men, not only without the authority of Congress, but after Congress had deliberately refused to give him such authority.
    Congress has the power to call forth the militia to suppress insurrection and repel invasions. Lincoln has usurped this power in his own hands.
    “No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another,” says the Constitution. Lincoln abrogates this provision and declares the ports of nine States to be blocked.
    Congress alone can suspend the writ of habeas corpus; martial law reigns in the Capital of the Republic.
    “No soldiers shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house without the consent of the owner; nor in the time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law,” is the clause in the constitution. By what law has Lincoln taken military possession of Washington?
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violaten,” are the words of the constitution. The military despotism at Washington is the practical commentary on this provision.
    The President is charged with the protection and preservation of the public property. Lincoln has fulfilled this obligation by destroying and burning the public property at Harper’s Ferry and Gosport Navy Yard.
    Lincoln affects to regard acts of Secession by any of the States as null and void. He nevertheless treats the seceded States as foreign powers, by subjecting them to blockade, according to the law of nations.
    North Carolina, which has not yet formally resumed its delegated powers, is also put under the ban and declared in a state of blockade.
    The President is required to conform his action to treaties—now, by treaties with England, France and other nations, these Powers have the right of entry to all our ports. Lincoln repudiates these treaties, and denies the exercise of the rights stipulated under them. This is to provoke war, a power resting exclusively with Congress.
    We humbly conceive that the assumption and exercise of these vast powers by one man, annihilate the Constitution, prostrate the public liberties, and establish an odious despotism."
  22. The following comes from a newspaper dated Oct 21, 1903 from the Anderson Intelligencer in Richmond county GA.

    Here is a online link.

    http://www.csanewspapers.com/States/Georgia/Richmond.php


    Anderson Intelligencer

    Oct 21, 1903

    WAR STORIES

    -------------------------------
    Private Soldier Tells of Cruelties of Yankee Soldiers
    -------------------------------

    George C. Tanner, in Augusta Chronicle

    "....To the Editor of the Chronicle – The Daughters of the Confederacy at Waynesboro came in possession of some of the facts of my two escapes from Yankee durance, and after reading the paper the narrative was published in the True Citizen.

    I have never thought it worth giving to the public, but since it has appeared, I beg space in your valuable columns to give the true details as they are retained in my memory after a lapse of forty years.

    I was born 12th of March, 1847, hence at the breaking out of the war I was not yet 15 years old. Yet I was fired by all that intense ardor that pervaded the South, and by a tight squeeze I managed to wriggle into Capt. Sam Crump’s company, the Walker Light infantry, which was soon after incorporated into the First Regiment Georgia volunteers.

    It is the opinion of many that this was the finest regiment in the Confederate service. If true it was the finest in any service. It was composed mostly of old perfectly drilled and well-equipped companies scattered throughout the State when the war broke out. Many of the best families in the State belonged to it, and a firmer body of men could not be found.

    I cannot forget the vigorous protest my mention of enlistment made in the company, and at my home, and how I had to be attired in a uniform much too big for me because “they had none for babies,” and how on a march I was chucked away in a wagon or astride of a cannon, my gun and equipment weighing nearly as much as I did. My reply to all this biting criticism was that “I could shoot strong as any of them” proved true, and I was nearly always where the shooting was going on, and believe I did my share of it.

    The experience of the First Georgia in the one-year from which we enlisted was terrific in the extreme, and was just about as much as the human anatomy could endure. After that one year when we were assembled at Petersburg to be mustered out of service, we had lost our former selves, and were all changed as human beings never were before. But we were full of the fiery ardor for the cause we had espoused, and suffering was not considered when compared with it. Every man of us deemed it our duty to re-enlist and we did so almost to a man.

    Having three brothers in Cobb’s Legion and that being cavalry, and having enough of “footing it” I lost no time in joining that regiment.

    General Wade Hampton on all occasions never for one moment hesitated to say that “Cobb’s Legion was the best regiment of cavalry that ever entered any service.” I have heard him say that any number of times. To have belonged to two such regiments in a matter of great pride to me.

    ---------------------

    CAPTURED AT GETTYSBURG

    I was captured at Gettysburg on the last day of the fighting.

    As I was being conducted back to the rear a squad of nine prisoners appeared and I was “turned over” to that squad.

    Three out of nine prisoners were badly and one slightly wounded. I was astonished that these men should not have been put in ambulances and sent to the hospital.

    We were, however, all marching forward and reaching a bend in the road, came full and direct under a fire from our own lines. Two of our wounded were killed outright by this fire and two others wounded. It was terrific in the extreme and might have been avoided.

    We were conducted to an old stable in the rear of Gettysburg, where we found many more prisoners awaiting us, and there were squads constantly arriving all containing wounded men, as was the case with the squad I came with. I was accosted by a fellow prisoner who was remarkably striking in his handsome appearance and fine physique. His name was Worthington and he was from Baltimore. He stood nearly seven feet and his appearance would have remarked in any assemblage of men.

    “I can’t understand,” said he, “how it is these wounded men of ours are placed in with the ordinary prisoners. Why are they not sent to the hospital?”

    “That same question had occurred to me.”

    “It looks to me as if all the Yankee hospitals are full of Yankee wounded,” said a lank fellow, with his head bandaged, and a bloody face, evidently from North Carolina.

    “But common humanity would at least give these men’s place to lie down and be quiet. They are forced to march.”

    “I saw one man who besought someone to shoot him to relieve him of his sufferings,” said another.

    No one understood the situation. I had been paroled on the field by the parties who captured me and was told I would be sent out for exchange. The exchange of prisoners had gone on uninterruptedly up to this time and everybody thought it would continue.

    My parole was torn to a thousand pieces by the Yankee officer, who came around to examine us and there was a severity of demeanor and a rigidity of discipline we had never seen before and could not understand. For the least offense a prisoner was bucked and gagged, or tied to the limb of a tree, so that his toes would just barely touch the ground, and the prison was made hideous by the yells of those poor fellows.

    “I have never seen such monsters as these guards are,” said Worthington.
    “They are mostly German regulars and we are in rough hands,” said Lindsey, another prisoner.

    It was evident there would be no humanity in the case.

    All that night prisoners continued to arrive until the stable yard and every crevice was packed. Above the din and cry of the wounded was the yell of the German guard. The curse of the Irish was followed frequently by the dull thug of a lick from a musket dealt by the fiery tempered guard.

    Sleep was out of the question. Worthington, Lindsey and myself made ourselves as little conspicuous as possible by huddling up in a corner to escape the barbarity that seemed to reign around.

    About 6 a. m. a line was formed; even the wounded gladly falling in to escape the horrors of the stable, hoping vaguely that things would be better.

    But alas! A few “hard tacks” were handed to us, and the guards were ordered to load their guns by a beardless boy with lieutenant’s uniform on and mounted on a fine horse. Soon the command was given, “Forward, march!” and we started forth. The roads were in an indescribable and inunderstandible condition of mud. Artillery and the army wagon had ground them deep so that every step we were up to our knees.

    The little fellow on the horse never turned his head, and seemed to me utterly indifferent to everything but his own fine self.

    It was difficult for the guard to keep at the pace his horse was going and for our wounded! God in Heaven, what heartless cruelty was shown by the guard!

    A German guard knocked one of these wounded men down with the butt of his gun and was stamping him in the face with his foot when Lindsey could stand it no longer, and in a fit of uncontrollable rage gave him a lick in the pit of the stomach that drew him double. This would have cost him dearly but for the presence of mind of Worthington, who disguised Lindsey so in a second he could not be detected.

    “There is another one of them I’ll fix this very night.” Said Lindsey. This was a German sergeant who had been very brutal.

    “Don’t do it Lindsey,” urged Worthington and I in one breath.

    We talked to him and depicted the terrible fate that awaited any attempt at revenge. We urged him to wait until we were exchanged and we would report the treatment to our government, but in spite of all our persuasive powers we could see a wicked light in Lindsey’s eyes. That night a German sergeant was killed with a stone, by whom no one knew – except Worthington, Lindsey and myself.

    “Tanner,” said Worthington to me, “It is dangerous for us to be with that fellow Lindsey. He will be detected in this sort of thing and we will come in for our share of blame by being his intimates.”

    “Yes, Worthington, I thought of that too, but I like the fellow for his grit, and would take any risk to be with such a man.”

    “So would I, but there is trouble ahead for him and us. They will detect him in this affair. Some one must have seen him do it, and those fellows would tell on him just to curry favor with the guard, and a large reward will be offered to find the man who did it. I think we had better shake him.”

    “No, Worthington, let’s stand by him to the last, and do the best for him we can, and we can do much if we will act together.”

    “What, for example can we do?”

    “We can say be was asleep with us, and establish an alibi.”

    “Heavens!” said Worthington, “but suppose it is found out!”

    “It is worth the risk for such a fellow. Let’s stand by him.”

    And so we did. In spite of the greatest possible efforts to find out who killed “the Dutch sergeant” it was all unavailing. To our utter dismay when we had a quiet talk with Lindsey and remonstrated with him and tried to point out the risk to all of us of his conduct, he almost paralyzed us with the same gleam in the eyes and the quiet announcement that he meant to kill the little lieutenant in charge of the guard and the Irish third lieutenant under him.

    “These men are monsters.” He said with a shake of his fist, and a hideous gleam in his eyes. “They beat our wounded and they are as cruel as fiends.”

    No persuasion could have the slightest effect upon him and Worthington and I had another quiet conference.

    It resulted as before. “We were to stand by Lindsey, come what would, and do the best we could for him, but we were to talk to him once more and try to dissuade him.

    That evening, after a killing day’s march, at least a dozen of our men were swung up by their thumbs, and their cries were heartrending. We were asleep when the camp was suddenly turned topsy-turvy by shots and the whiz and hiss of the minnie balls flying around us.

    “It’s Lindsey,” said Worthington; “be perfectly quiet. Don’t get up, you’ll be shot; lie down,” said he, tugging at me as I was trying to get up.

    “Where is he? I want to help him. Where is he?” I asked still half asleep. The hiss of the minnie balls commingled with the cry of the wounded and the beating of drums and a general alarm, the commands of the officers and the terror of some of the prisoners made up a wild and weird scene. Confusion reigned supreme.

    Finally order sufficient was established for the prisoners to be formed, the guards were even more brutal and the prisoners were in terror. Such a scene!

    Lieutenant Kelly had been assaulted by a Federal soldier, who had attempted also to assassinate the lieutenant of the guard. Failing in that he had mounted the horse of the commandant and had fled.

    This was what Worthington and I could gleam from one of the guards who was a little more civil than his comrades.

    “Was it one of your own men, then?” queried Worthington of the guard.

    “He was dressed in our uniform and it is supposed so,” was the reply.

    We walked apart and each asked at the same time: “Where’s Lindsey?” That was the question, and to Worthington and myself a very important one.

    “He did it,” Worthington said close in my ear; “do you think they’ll catch him?”

    “He has a good horse and my get away.”

    “I hope so.” And so I did, and to this day I do not know if Lindsey was ever captured. How he got the Yankee uniform or how he ever carried out his plan to kill Lieutenant Kelly I do not know. There was any amount of carefully suppressed satisfaction at the death of that monster among the prisoners; and the guards themselves shed no tears for him. There was one very strong circumstantial incident which invited our suspicion to Lindsey apart from his telling Worthington and me of his determination to kill these two officers. I overheard one of the prisoners tell another that he had exchanged “a brand new Yankee overcoat to one of our men for a Confederate coat and got a good rubber blanket to boot and a plug of tobacco.” Lindsey had a rubber blanket and a Confederate coat.

    To our dismay the guards were reinforced and the barbarity and cruelty went on. We after two days of terror, reached Frederick, Maryland, where we were to take the cars for Baltimore.

    Worthington was well known in Baltimore and stood in great dread of his people (who sympathized with the Yankees) seeing him in his woeful plight.

    We were being marched along the street when a scream from a female voice pierced the air and looking we saw a beautiful young woman endeavoring to make her way through the throng of idle gazers. She seemed to come straight toward Worthington and myself.

    Looking at Worthington I saw a tremendous change in his face. He was as white as chalk and seemed puzzled what to do.

    When the young lady came to the guard he leveled his bayonet at her in order perhaps to stop her progress, but in a moment Worthington sprang upon him, wrenched his gun from his grasp and would have annihilated him with his own weapon but for a rush of the police who seized both parties. The young lady was abruptly hastened away by the police and poor Worthington was taken.

    Three minutes would have covered this entire transaction. I was inert and stunned at what had happened. As Worthington was marched away my first thought was: “Oh, for Lindsey.” I had a vague idea of what even he could do in such a case, but I would have rejoiced to have had him on had at that time.

    I was only a boy and though I would have freely made any sacrifice for Worthington, seeing the noble part he had acted and how deeply wronged he was yet my wits were dull and I did not know what to do.

    But I was resolved to make some effort. At this moment a Yankee officer on horseback rode up and I placed myself with my hand up to my cap in military salute directly in front of his horse, so that he could not proceed without riding over me.

    “General,” I said, “let me as a human being say one word to you.”

    “What do you want, sir?” he snapped out. In a moment a crowd was packed around on the outside of the pavement eagerly trying to catch what was going on.

    “I want to speak in behalf of the man who was just hand-cuffed and marched off to be severely dealt with for doing nothing more than a man with the slightest spark of manhood would have done.”

    “What do you know, sir, and how do you know this?” said he, in a very austere voice.

    “Know it!” I exclaimed; “I saw everything that has just happened to my friend!”

    “Who is the man you speak of, and where is he?”

    “He is Worthington, a prisoner who has been handcuffed and marched away because he tried to defend a young lady from the barbarity of your men.”

    There were murmurs of approval at what I had said by the throng packed like sardines around.

    “I know nothing of this matter,” said General Patrick, for it was the general, and he commanded the provost guard.

    Then continuing, he said “These are sever words of yours, young man, and must be verified.”

    Then turning to the guard he commanded them to take charge of me and report with Worthington at his headquarters within and hour. He rode on.

    Whatever effect my course had had on General Patrick, the greater part of the crowd in the streets of Baltimore was unquestionably almost solid for Worthington, and I believe things could have been wrought up in an ugly mood for the guard if the same tyranny had been shown there that we had endured on the march.

    When we were brought to General Patrick’s headquarters Worthington, without hand-cuffs, was there, and as we entered we saw a young lady to our right seated near General Patrick. Worthington exchanged glances with her and seemed embarrassed. I was not in speaking distance of Worthington. Soon a tall, commanding figure entered and was admitted to a place near the general, and they soon engaged in a whispered conversation, which lasted about twenty minutes. Then the tall gentleman beckoned to Worthington and he advanced to a corner of the room and had a very earnest conversation. I could see a resemblance between this man and Worthington, and guessed it might be his father.

    Worthington turned so that I could see his face, and he looked pale and troubled. Soon he returned to me and the tall gentleman, pale, trembling and much agitated, returned to General Patrick and said something to him and then the general, in an excited manner, rose and commanded the guard “take these two rebels back to the guard and turn them over with the other prisoners.”

    Here was a puzzling situation. Worthington, when he was marched out, soon made it clear by taking my arm and saying; “Tanner, that gentleman you saw there is my father. He wanted me to renounce the Southern cause, take the oath of allegiance and be free, and threatened me that unless I did he would no longer own or recognize me as a son. Of course, I refused. The young lady – the only woman I have ever loved, or can or will ever love – whom you saw, came on the same mission; and I have given up father, mother, sister, brothers, every earthly thing for the South.”

    “What noble words these are, Worthington. When we succeed you will be rewarded for all this,” I said, seeing what a great sacrifice he had made. Noble fellow, how I worship that man.

    His family saved Worthington from the most severe punishment by the guards. Had it only been any of the rest of us we would have perhaps been ball and chained until the war ended.

    That march from Gettysburg to Fredericksburg, Md., was a memorable one marked by all the savage ferocity and barbarity of man’s nature.

    Things would have been serious for me but for Worthington’s family influence. This caused the whole affair to be dropped...."

    Washington, D. C'
  23. Daily Chronicle & Sentinel
    November 4, 1864

    Largest Circulation in the city
    Largest circulation in the State
    FRIDAY MORNING, NOVEMBER 4, 1864
    PEACE
    THIRTY-EIGHTHGEORGIA REGIMENT—The following casualties have occurred in a late battle in the thirty-eighthGeorgia regiment:
    Field and staff—Wounded: Serg’t Major W S Roberston, dangerously: Missing: Major Thomas H Bomar
    Co A—Wounded: Privates John Eidson, head and arm, prisoner; Newton Wates, thigh broken, prisoner: J F House, leg amputated, prisoner
    Co B—Wounded: B M Densmore, leg
    Co C—Wounded: Corpl E A Odum, left arm, severe; privates Francis Wilkes, shoulder, severe; T B Cocksay, breast, slight
    Co E—Wounded: Sergeant J M Hawkins, side, slight; private M E Sorrow, head, slight
    Co K—Killed: Private A W Almond; Wounded: Privates M O Wiggins, shoulder; W A Childress, ankle
    Co N—Wounded: Privates W A Childress, back, severe; J M Phillips, head, slight
  24. Headquarters Army North Virginia,

    11th January, 1865.

    Hon. Andrew Hunter, Richmond, Va.

    "...Dear Sir: I have received your letter of the 7th inst., and, without confining myself to the order of your interrogatories, will endeavor to answer them by a statement of my views on the subject. I shall be most happy if I can contribute to the solution of a question in which t feel an interest commensurate with my desire for the welfare and happiness of our people. Considering the relation of master and slave, controlled by humane laws and influenced by Christianity and an enlightened public sentiment, as the best that can exist between the white and black races while intermingled as at present in this country, I would deprecate any sudden disturbance of that relation, unless it be necessary to avert a greater calamity to both. I should therefore prefer to rely upon our white population to preserve the ratio between our forces and those of the enemy which experience has shown to be safe. But in view of the preparations of our enemies it is our duty to provide for continued war, and not for a battle or campaign, and I fear that we cannot accomplish this without overtaxing the capacity of our white population. Should the war continue, under existing circumstances, the enemy may in course of time penetrate our country and get access to a large part of our negro population. It is his avowed policy to convert the able-bodied men into soldiers, and to emancipate all.
    The success of the Federal arms in the South was followed by a proclamation of President Lincoln for two hundred and eighty thousand men, the effect of which will be to stimulate the Northern States to procure as substitutes for their own people the negroes thus brought within their reach. Many have already been obtained in Virginia, and should the fortune of war expose more of her territory, the enemy would gain a large accession to his strength.

    His progress will thus add to his numbers and at the same time destroy slavery in a manner most pernicious to the welfare of our people. Their negroes will be used to hold them in subjection, leaving the remaining force of the enemy free to extend his conquest. Whatever may be the effect of our employing negro troops, it cannot be as mischievous as this. If it end in subverting slavery, it will be accomplished by ourselves, and we can devise the means of alleviating the evil consequences to both races. I think, therefore, we must decide whether slavery shall be extinguished by our enemies and the slaves be used against us, or use them ourselves at the risk of the effects which may be produced upon our social institutions. I believe that with proper regulations they can be made efficient soldiers. They possess the physical qualifications in an eminent degree. Long habits of obedience and subordination, coupled with the moral influence which in our country the white man possesses over the black, furnish an excellent foundation for that discipline which is the best guarantee of military efficiency. Our chief aim should be to secure their fidelity.

    There have been formidable armies composed of men having no interest in the cause for which they fought beyond their pay or hope of plunder. But it is certain that the surest foundation upon which the fidelity of an army can rest, especially in a service which imposes peculiar hardships and privations, is the personal interest of the soldier in the issue of the contest. Such an interest we can give our negroes by giving immediate freedom to all who enlist, and freedom at the end of the war to the families of those who discharge their duties faithfully (whether they survive or not), together with the privilege of residing at the South. To this might be added a bounty for faithful service.
    We should not expect slaves to fight for prospective freedom when they can secure it by going to the enemy, in whose service they will incur no greater risk than in ours. The reasons that induce me to recommend the employment of negro troops at all render the effects of the measures I have suggested upon slavery immaterial, and in my opinion the best means of securing the efficiency and fidelity of this auxiliary force would be to accompany the measure with a well digested plan of gradual and general emancipation. As that will be the result of the continuance of the war, and will certainly occur if the enemy succeed, it seems to me advisable to adopt it at once, and thereby secure all the benefits that will accrue to our cause.

    The employment of negro troops under regulations similar in principle to those above indicated would, in my opinion, greatly increase our military strength, and enable us to relieve our white population to some extent. I think we could dispense with our reserve forces except in cases of necessity.

    It would disappoint the hopes which our enemies base upon our exhaustion, deprive them in a great measure of the aid they now derive from black troops, and thus throw the burden of the war upon their own people. In addition to" the great political advantages that would result to our cause from the adoption of a system of emancipation, it would exercise a salutary influence upon our whole negro population, by rendering more secure the fidelity of those who become soldiers and diminishing the inducements to the rest to abscond.
    I can only say, in conclusion, that whatever measures are to be adopted should be adopted at once. Every day's delay increases the difficulty. Much time will be required to organize and discipline the men, and action may be deferred until it is too late.
    Very respectfully, your obedient servant,....."

    R. E. Lee, General.


    Source: Official Records War Of The Rebellion
  25. Random guy Member


    The fault for the US slavery lay squarely with the Founding Fathers. They were starting a new nation. They had the chance to take up an implement the new humane ideas coming out from the progressive thinkers of the French Revolution. They chose not to. So much for all men being born free and equal.

    It is not as if anti-slavery was unknown to them, or impossible in the New World. Franklin, despite all his otherwise questionable sides, would have nothing of it. Pennsylvania even outlawed slavery for people staying there for more than six months, making Washington move back and forth to avoid having to free his while he was president. Washington, as an extremely personally popular president could actually have done something about it, but did not. In stead the 1793 Fugitive Slave Act cam in effect on his watch. If anyone bear any personal responsibility for almost a century of institutionalized white supremacy that is still not fully rooted out, it's Washington.

    Reading Wikipedia, you can quite clearly see the effect you quote. The topics like "George Washington" and "Presidency of George Washington" are neatly scrubbed of any deeper discussion of slavery.
  26. 00068u-60.jpg

    Confederate dead near Little Round Top at Gettysburg.

    00077u-53.jpg

    Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. the "Slaughter Pen"

    03701u-30.jpg

    Dead Confederate in "Devil's Den" Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

    This photo is by Alexander Gardner and the rifle you see is one of his Props.

    02543u-44.jpg

    Petersburg, Virginia. Dead Confederate soldier in the trenches of Fort Mahone April 1865.

    03941u-27.jpg

    Bealeton, Virginia. Captain Henry Page, assistant quarter master August 1863.

    00242u-69.jpg

    Antietam, Maryland. Battlefield near Sherrick's house where the 79th New York Vols. fought after they crossed the creek. Group of dead Confederates. Date Created/Published: 1862 Sept.

    00344u-44.jpg?1281273566.jpg

    Spotsylvania Court House, Virginia (vicinity). 1st Mass. Heavy Artillery burying the dead at Mrs. Alsop's house after the battle of May 19th.
    Date Created/Published:
    1864 May 20th

    01108u-98.jpg?1281203892.jpg



    Sharpsburg (Antietam), Maryland. View where Sumner's Corps charged.

    01104u-72.jpg?1281203892.jpg

    Antietam, Maryland. Bodies of dead, Louisiana Regiment.

    01088u-49.jpg?1281203890.jpg


    Antietam, Maryland. Dead soldiers in the bloody lane.
  27. [IMG]
    Antietam, Maryland. A Confederate soldier who after being wounded had evidently dragged himself to a little ravine on the hillside where he died.

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    Antietam, Maryland. Dead Confederate soldiers as they fell near the Burnside bridge.

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    Antietam, Maryland. Confederate soldiers as they fell inside the fence on the Hagerstown road.

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    Dead in front of Dunker Church, Antietam, MD.


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    Gettysburg, Pennsylvania Bodies of Federal soldiers, killed on July 1, near the McPherson woods.

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    Antietam, Maryland Confederate dead by a fence on the Hagerstown road.

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    Federal soldier disembowelled by a shell at Gettysburg.

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    Battle-field of Gettysburg--Dead Confederate sharpshooter at foot of Little Round Top by Alexander Gardner.

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    Portrait of Private William S. Askew, Company A, (Newman Guards) 1st Georgia Infantry, C.S.A.

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    Richmond, Virginia Graves of Confederate soldiers in Oakwood Cemetery.

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    Petersburg, Virginia Dead Confederate soldier, in trench beyond a section of chevaux-de-fries.

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    Confederate prisoners for exchange at Cox's Landing, Virginia.

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    Confederate fortifications, Yorktown, Virginia.

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    Yorktown, Virginia. Confederate battery with McClellan's No. 1 mortar battery in the distance. Date Created/Published: 1862 June.

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    Antietam, Maryland. General John C. Caldwell and staff on battlefield. Date Created/Published: 1862 Sept.

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    Antietam, Maryland President Lincoln and General George B. McClellan in the general's tent.

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    Flag of 37th Pennsylvania Infantry.

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    Portrait of Private Edwin Francis Jemison, 2nd Louisiana Regiment, C.S.A.

    (Struck with Solid shot in the chest at Malvern Hill in 1862)

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    This is what he was hit with.



    [IMG]

    William Francis Jones, Private, 5th Virginia Cavalry, C.S.A.,

    Attached Files:

  28. SOQ2jM3.jpg

    Civil War Tomb of the Unknown
    Arlington National Cemetery

    Nph6guC.jpg

    Grave of Gen. Montgomery Meigs. He was a Southerner who stayed loyal to the Union even after his friend Robert E. Lee resigned from the US army to lead the army of Northern Virginia. He was responsible for Arlington being chosen for the site of the National Cemetery. He blamed Lee for the war, especially for the death of his son, so he took Lee's land to build it.

    SiscLZf.jpg

    His son's grave.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Random guy Member

    I think this photo is posed. The guy is dead all right (killed in action), but I remember seeing a program about him must have been dragged there. The jacket looks funny, likely the wool uniform was a bit damp as he was dragged into position, and stayed up afterwards. The photographer came to the battlefield a couple of days after the battle, and the "dead sniper" was one of the few who hadn't started to bloat in the sun. I believe the same body was photographed at other places around the battlefield.
    • Like Like x 1

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