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Historical Research On The War Between The States (contains graphic images)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Johnny_Reb_1865, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. Random guy Member

  2. Yea but I wouldn't compare the two.

    This uniform I like the best from the CS Army reminds me of france.

    CS_private_atlas.jpg


  3. The right and ONLY way to do the "Rebel Yell"


  4. companyaytch.jpg



    Confederate soldier Sam Watkin's 1883 book republished. ^



    1160.JPG
  5. I don't really know what to do next with this thread so any one got any ideas?

    I wanted to post a letter by a soldier or what kind of entertainment the soldiers enjoyed.

    I don't have any idea so.......

    I'll just post this random fact.

    image002.jpg


    RANDOM FACT: General Robert E Lee really Liked fried chicken.

    "All I ever wanted was a Virginia farm, no end of cream and fresh butter and fried chicken-not one fried chicken, or two, but unlimited fried chicken."

    Robert E Lee
  6. Random guy Member


    I see what you mean. Europeans generally had longer jackets though, it's colder over here.

    The Union on the other hand had (with a few exceptions) distinctly inelegant uniforms, obviously designed for being mass produced cheaply, shapeless, and with garish colours (I never cared much for blue).
  7. LOL me neather.

    But here is a union Zoave uniniform I like.



    zouave01.jpg

    The yanks got the idea from the French.


    But the south had zoave uniforms too.

    I'll look for some.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zouave
  8. Hugh Bris Member

    I'm pretty sure not many Confederates got to wear one of them lovely uniforms. They had the cotton but not the industry to make them.
  9. Random guy Member

    From my limited knowledge, a lot of the uniforms were home made, thus tailored a bit more to the soldiers than the baggy sack-coats (they were actually called that) of the Union.
  10. Hugh Bris Member

    Homemade clothes are by definition NOT uniform, so they are not uniforms, if you get me.

    http://www.almanac.com/fact/why-did-the-union-wear-blue-and
  11. If you look at my uniform examples that is what regulateion was.


    But really the south's uniforms looked like this as the war dragged on.


    civil-war-reenactment_231.jpg
  12. At the start they did and they also had blue state millita uniforms as well very confuseing.
  13. Random guy Member

    In the modern sense of the word you are undoubtedly right, back them however it was common during the 19th century (at lest for officers) to buy ones own uniforms sewn to the correct pattern, but adapted to the wearer. German officers had tailored uniforms during the 2nd World War, and the Wehrmacht soldiers had the choice of buying their own boots for a refund or take the stiff depot "dice shakers".

    As the war got progressively bad for the South, more and more uniforms were home-made.

    I don't think that is correct (Johnny Reb can probably correct me), the processes described would ruin the wool fibres making the jackets fall apart. I know some Southerners nicked the light blue trousers from the Union soldiers, but the sack coats the Southerners used were depot made in dust brown butternutt, see http://www.adolphusconfederateunifo...te-depot-sack-coat-an-overlooked-garment.html

    I think some Southern jackets were made from the blue Union trousers, but wearing anything that could be misunderstood as a dark blue jacket in the South at that stage would probably be suicide.
  14. Hugh Bris Member

    OK. I admit, I'm actually not all that interested in the uniforms of armies. They are all made for one main purpose: to identify the sides.

    I would be interested in talking about the morality of scorched earth tactics, as practiced by Sherman, or the morality of killing people who just want to create their own laws for their own needs. And yes, slavery was a BAD THING, but the only country I know of that had a war to end it was the US. Every other nation that ended slavery in the 19th century (England in 1807 to Brazil in 1888) managed to do it peacefully. Why was the US so different?

    Was the Civil War a civil war, or a war of secession, and if it is the later, why is it called a civil war? Who would benefit from calling it that...

    The list of topics is endless.
  15. Sorry Peter Tait and Co. Jackets from Ierland where kinda blue.

    pendleton_jacket.jpg
  16. The first part Random Guy your right but not so much with the second.


    Look at this then.

    http://www.military-historians.org/company/journal/confederate/confederate-1.htm


    And here are some Confederate uniform examples.


    [IMG]

    This guy has a Columbia Tenneesee Deport shell jacket and his rifle is a 1853 British made Enfield Rifled musket.

    5387378_1_l.jpg

    A Atlanta Georgea Deport shell jacket.

    View attachment qm-1322_shelljacket_cs_richmond-depot_2_medium-gre

    And a Richmond Virginia Deport type 2 shell jacket.

    My Confederate ancestor Pvt. Benjamin F. West would have worn this type.

    Attached Files:

  17. The Internet Member

    You ask some good questions. But I am mostly here for the entertainment factor, so do not expect much from me.

    Things look a lot different in hindsight. Sometimes several small steps, each one reasonable, can lead to tragedy. Because social forces are as chaotic as the weather. Tiny events can impact outcomes.

    Letters I’ve read from soldiers North and South talk about a brief conflict early on. Maybe if everyone knew about the bloodbath and scorched earth coming, they would have done things differently.

    Or perhaps not. We do not have access to that alternate universe where the South seceded without a war. It is possible that universe is actually nastier than the one we are in. Strong government in service to progressive equality before the law seems to correlate with diminished violence over time.
  18. Random guy Member

    Read Harry Turtledove's "Guns of the South"? Nice read if you're into sci-fi. Turtledove's a Lee fan though, I think your scenario is a tad more likely.
  19. Random guy Member

    This is getting waaay off topic, but I was under the impression the shell jackets had buttons all the way down, the frock coats and shell jackets had a "skirt" without buttons.
  20. Hugh Bris Member

    I have only read the first of the series. That's where some hapless Reb loses the map he was carrying for a general and it falls into the hands of the North (in real life), but in his book, the South recover it without a problem. He uses that as a pivot, if I remember. That was the Change that led to their keeping their independence.

    I liked Turtledove's one with the aliens arriving in 1943. Cool speculative fiction.
  21. Oh my bad you wanted frock coats?
  22. Random guy Member

    Yeah, I loved the World War series. The Guns of the South has Confederates getting their hands on AK-47s and winning the war.
  23. Random guy Member

    No I meant that what you called a Richmond Mk.II shell jacket is in fact a sack-coat. The shell-jackets are the "typical" confederate jacket with (lots of) buttons all the way down.

    The Brits had some comparable types, in fact a version of it is still used as mess dress.
  24. Then that thing where it says "One southerner can kill ten Yankees" would be true.....


    DANM IT we are getting off topic!

    Don't derail my shit ok guys?



    RANDOM FACT:

    Confederate president Jefferson Davis bought camels to use out in Texas.

    And I'm not Bull Shiting you.
  25. Random guy Member

    It was a thing of the time I suppose. The Brits likewise brought camels to Australia for an expedition into the desert interior in 1860. The Brits eventually left them there, and now the Aussies have to cull the herds to stop them from destroying the desert. It's like the rabbits, only it has humps and smell worse.
  26. LoL here is a song from the period for you.

  27. Two movies about the war that I strongly urge every one here to watch are.

    "Gods And Generals" and "Gettysburg"


    You should start with Gods And Generals they are both really good.
  28. Random guy Member


    I didn't understand a much of what he said (bad sound quality and not quite the Queens English), so I had to watch his body language in stead. I usually like reenactors, but this one rubbed me the wrong way. Looked to me way more like political activism rather than reenactment.
  29. That's H.K. Edgerton and that was southern English.

    But it was at a reenactment it was at the Gettysburg 150th and this was sponsored by the local SCV. (Sons of Confederate Veterans)

    But HK isn't being historicaly incorrect by whearing a Confederate uniform.


    chandlerscropped2.jpg
  30. Dr. Lewis Steiner, chief inspector, U.S. Sanitary Commission, reported on a Confederate advance early in the war. He wrote:

    "Wednesday, Sept. 10 At four o�clock this morning, the Rebel army began to move from our town, Jackson's force taking the advance.
    The movement continued until eight o clock p.m., occupying 16 hours. The most liberal calculations could not give them more than 64,000 men.
    Over 3,000 Negroes must be included in this number. These were clad in all kinds of uniforms, not only in cast-off or captured U.S. uniforms, but in coats with Southern buttons, state buttons, etc. These were shabby, but not shabbier or seedier than those worn by white men in Rebel ranks.
    Most of the Negroes had arms, rifles, muskets, sabres, bowie-knives, dirks, etc. They were supplied, in many instances, with knapsacks, haversacks, canteens, etc., and were manifestly an integral portion of the Southern Confederacy Army.
    They were seen riding on horses and mules, driving wagons, riding on caissons, in ambulances, with the staff of generals, and promiscuously mixed up with all the Rebel horde..."
    (Report of Lewis H. Steiner, New York: Anson D. F. Randolph, 1862, pp. 10-11.)


    Frederick Douglass sure knew about them, too, and complained bitterly in his efforts to lobby the U.S. Army to even accept black men into their ranks:

    "It is now pretty well established that there are at the present moment many colored men in the Confederate army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops, and do all that soldiers may..."

    (Douglass� Monthly, September 1861, online copy available at http://radicaljournal.com/essays/fighting_rebels.html.)
    And contrary to these reports, black soldiers served in the Confederate armies from the beginning and also (surprisingly to many) in most cases as fully integrated units.
    In 1895, Christian A. Fleetwood, a black man who had served in the Union army as a sergeant-major (4th U.S. Colored Troops) reported:

    "It seems a little singular that in the tremendous struggle between the states in 1861-1865, the South should have been the first to take steps toward the enlistment of Negroes.
    Yet such is the fact. Two weeks after the fall of Fort Sumter, the Charleston Mercury records the passing through Augusta of several companies of the 3rd and 4th Georgia Regt. and of 16 well-drilled companies and one Negro company from Nashville, Tenn.
    The Memphis Avalanche and The Memphis Appeal of May 9, 10, and 11, 1861, give notice of the appointment by the �Committee of Safety� of a committee of three persons to organize a volunteer company composed of our patriotic freemen of color of the City of Memphis, for the service of our common defense.�
    A telegram from New Orleans, dated Nov. 23, 1861, notes the review by Gov. Moore of over 28,000 troops, and that one regiment comprised �1,400 colored men.�
    The New Orleans Picayune, referring to a review held Feb. 9, 1862, says: �We must also pay a deserved compliment to the companies of free colored men, all very well drilled and comfortably equipped..."

    (Christian A. Fleetwood, The Negro as a Soldier, Washington, D.C.: Howard University Print, 1895, pp. 5-6.) [Michael T. Griffith �Black Confederates, Political Correctness, and a Virginia Textbook copyright 2011 retrieved: http://www.mtgriffith.com/web.../blackconfederates.html.]

    The Union Army would not even allow blacks to serve until 1863 two years into the war, and the U.S. Army remained segregated until 1948 three years after the end of World War II.
  31. An Indiana soldier wrote a letter to his hometown newspaper recounting his unit's run-in with black Confederates in the fall of 1861. The story was reprinted throughout the North:
    a body of seven hundred Negro infantry opened fire on our men, wounding two lieutenants and two privates. The wounded men testify positively that they were shot by Negroes, and that not less than seven hundred were present, armed with muskets. This is, indeed, a new feature in the war. We have heard of a regiment of Negroes at Manassas, and another at Memphis, and still another at New Orleans, but did not believe it till it came so near home and attacked our men. . . . One of the lieutenants was shot in the back of the neck and is not expected to live.
    The New Orleans regiment referred to may have been that which began with the May 12, 1861 proclamation of Louisiana Governor Thomas O. Moore. The proclamation called for the enrollment of blacks to form an all-black regiment with black officers for the defense of New Orleans. By early 1862, over 3,000 men had joined this regiment, and other black units had been formed as well.
  32. Should all of this be ignored?

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