Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by tiggernew, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. clu- Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    gregg, i was there, i went in. ill be a witness for you should it come to that.
  2. a.nun.e.mouse Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    [Edited to add: This is not legal advice.]

    This initial hearing is just so the magistrate can determine if sufficient evidence exists to issue a criminal complaint. Even if Gregg loses this hearing, all this means is that a criminal complaint will issue and it will go to arraignment (at which point he can have appointed counsel based on indigency).

    After arraignment, there will be typically a pre-trial conference (for discovery) and pre-trial hearing, before a trial date is set.

    Really, if possible, Gregg should aim to get appointed counsel and then drag out proceedings as much as he can. Make the Church pay for those high-priced lawyers for as many billable hours as possible.

    [Edited to add: There are many law schools, if Gregg ends up at arraignment, with criminal clinical programs that would surely help. I know BU law school has one at the BMC.]
  3. Pelvidar Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Just had to jump on and express my admiration for you stepping up if it comes to it. I'm sure gregg will appreciate your support.
  4. Manumission Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    THIS x infinity

    EVERYONE needs to commit this to memory
  5. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I disagree. I think Gregg should get an attorney ASAP and get the whole thing dismissed at this very first hearing. If the magistrate decides to grant the application for criminal charges, it will be the Commonweath of Massachusettes V Gregg.

    If Gregg does little or nothing YET and the magistrate accepts the criminal charges, the CoS lawyers would run up billable hours fabricating evidence to hand to the prosecutor on a platter, but it technically isn't the CoS's case at that point.

    If it gets thrown out immediately, Gregg might also be able to sue CoS for defamation and libel. This would be a long and expensive legal battle & I respect him if he does not choose that living hell for the next 3-7 years.
  6. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

  7. exanon Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Isn't Graham E. Berry representing him?
  8. 4greatjustice Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I am greg. I am sean carasov.

    we act as one.

    lets get things done.
  9. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Gregg? not that I know of.

    ITT you meant Rorschach
  10. gregg Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I appreciate this and it might be needed. Thank you clu-. If I need it I will talk to you. I hope we dont get to that, as I dont want to be the cause of others getting namefagged.

    For eveyone else, thanks for all the advice and kind words. I have a few leads on lawyers to talk to on monday so I am going to start making calls on monday.
  11. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Which one of those actions is criminal?

    I can show you an infinite amount of websites promoting gun ownership. I can even show you bulletin boards where individuals discuss their knowledge of firearms produced in foreign nations yet are illegal to own in the U.S. They even post pictures. Name the illegalities here por favor.

    Did you know that in 1979 the United States Government failed to prevent a magazine (The Progressive) from printing a method to produce a hydrogen-bomb? (p.s. OooOOooOoo it had scary pictures too!) Even federal lawsuits don't trump the First Amendment. [yes, the spade/trump pun was intended]
  12. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    ***[begin heavy disclaimer] I am not licensed to practice law in any jurisdiction. I am not an attorney. I am not a law student although I have studied law in the past (which makes me especially responsible to include this disclaimer that I'm sure you are reading). You should always research the facts for yourself and reach your own independent conclusion. Always consult a licensed attorney before making any decisions or taking any legal action. I am serious [end disclaimer]***

    I've read through the thread. But I've seen differing info. Need clarification:

    This is what we're talking about, right?

    1. Why would anyone think the DA gives a rats ass about an application for a complaint that can be filed by anyone?

    2. Why is anyone wasting time commenting about public defenders and court-appointed counsel? That doesn't apply until an individual is "put in jeopardy". (no authority has even recognized the complaint as being valid thus far)

    3. Why is anyone talking about discovery or CoS filing interrogatories?

    THIS IS NOT A CIVIL COURT PROCEEDING. If a magistrate (not even a trial judge) decides that the CoS's "complaint" is worth more than donkey shit, then it's completely out of CoS hands. The criminal court system is not run by plaintiffs. A random public prosecutor would be assigned to represent the public interest.

    The CoS does NOT get to prosecute people in criminal matters. They can only file the complaint and hope that the authorities actually think it's worth looking into. Then they are out of the matter unless the terrified church member gets called as a witness.

    4. If obvious probable cause existed, the police would file the complaint upon making an arrest. Since the incident has passed, the police would need to go in front of a magistrate and get an arrest warrant. That has not happened, correct?

    The whole situation just looks like a last-ditch effort by the cult because the cops won't waste their time on an obvious bullshit claim that won't go anywhere. Am I missing something here?

    (Make sure you read the disclaimer. Read it again if you want. I am totally not getting blamed for anything d00dz)
  13. Mister X Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    No, you're not missing anything. The CoS are applying to the court asking for a prosecution which they will not get.
  14. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    "missing" is not the word I would choose.

    However ITT you are underestimating the complaintant.

    If Gregg shows up at the hearing unprepared and without competent and informed counsel, the CoS will have fabricated enough "evidence" to convince the magistrate that Gregg is a flight risk, a danger to not only scientology, but to all of society, and must be taken into custody without bail and prosecuted. The magistrate probably won't buy all of it, but given the prior methods of the complaintant, may very well buy into some of it. The CoS really wants a head on a pike in a very desperate way. "no big deal; jeopardy isn't even attached yet" is not an approach that will convince the magistrate to tell the complaintant to "GTFO and don't come back". No matter how many ways Gregg by himself can say "that allegation is rediculous" the complaintant will have x20 to say "let the jury decide"

    the complaintant may have already been told by both the police and an assistant prosecutor to GTFO, but the CoS is NOT your ordinary complaintant similarly situated (whiney crybaby neighbor afeared of an ozzy osbourne tshirt for example)

    I say "informed" counsel because a defense attorney unfamiliar with the CoS and taking Gregg's case and understanding "all you did was apply for the permit and distribute flyers without even going in their open-to-the-public door? no problem I can get you off easy" will be shocked with what the CoS feeds to the prosecutor. Arnie's amicus brief would be a good place to start getting the defense counsel moving towards "informed"

    tl;dr CoS is not an ordinary complaintant
  15. amaX Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

  16. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    On the other hand, if he buys the bullshit, it would be the same as spitting in the face of each officer who called bullshit on the whole thing. (8 inches would indicate a loooooooooooooot of necessary face spitting)

    I bet the "Church's" lawyer, Michael McCormack is incredibly pissed like hell. Some higher-up cult official is forcing him to file a half-page "pretty please with a cherry on top" application because the police are already laughing at him.

    Imagine the law firm environment if they find out... "oh hey there Mikey, how was kindergarten this morning lolol"... "M-M-Michael Mc-My-Man! *high five* I heard you took your niece to her senior prom last night, dayum boy you get any??"... "oh dood I heard that magistrate *teehee* was so mean to you mikey, did she put you in time out? well i hope the swingset didn't fill up while you were in the corner :(".

    that's when you pull out the trouser snake. Mine is named F.R.E. Rule 403:

    Rule 403. Exclusion of Relevant Evidence on Grounds of Prejudice, Confusion, or Waste of Time
    Although relevant, evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of unfair prejudice, confusion of the issues, or misleading the jury, or by considerations of undue delay, waste of time, or needless presentation of cumulative evidence.
    [Federal Rules of Evidence]

    yeah, but no prosecutor is involved yet.

    If magistrate approves--> real magistrate court considers (again) if it's worth trying--> If he thinks it is there will be an arraignment and a "How do you plead?" thingy. Then if we live in candyland-bizzaro-world an approximate date of hearing (not trial at this point as far as I know) will be determined and then (if we really really are in bizarro land) trial would be after.
  17. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Can anyone fill us in on the likely procedure for this application? ie. Why wouldn't there be any pleadings (eg a statement of facts grounding the allegations), a discovery process, or any adjournments to allow the defence to get its evidence together? (Yes, I get that this is a criminal process, but fairness demands that the defendant gets to know what they are alleging, even in broad terms, surely?)

    IF the court decides to allow the application, does the DA have any discretion as to whether to take it to trial?
  18. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    might be able to request copies all materials complainant intends to use as evidence. it's a basic request in higher courts.
  19. Bakebehe Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I swear to god half these questions have already been answered in the thread. Just look back a couple of pages.
  20. n0name Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    we understand your concerns of the possibility / risk to be tracked and namefagged while we assist/help You, but we all stand as one, we are legion, we never gonna give You up, we never gonna let you down, nor an other victim of the Beast and his inhuman, insane robots without a Soul.

    personally, i appreciate very much all the good things you have done to inform the hole world about the truth , that every buddy should know, because ignorance and Lies are the advantage of the Evil Cult, and we will destroy it with the light of the truth, no matter how many of us will fall, the great Justice will make us unforgettable and we never gonna die.

    People who really care about freedom will stand always by our side fighting against the corrupt minds who are serving the dark side of Mankind with "No mercy_Materialism_business".

    we never forgive
  21. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Why do people keep using the word "namefagged"? I don't see why it's desirable to insult gay people here.
  22. Anonymousedk Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I expect you have seen the "offer" from enjointhis over on
  23. gregg Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Absolutely. I emailed him and we are going to talk tomorrow.
  24. Anon23517 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Oh that's good news indeed. Good luck!
  25. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Awesome news gregg, you have my support!

    Question your work going to be cool with some unscheduled vacation and stuff?
  26. gregg Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Maybe, ill have to talk to my boss. But court he shouldnt mind.
  27. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    what indication is there that he would need more than one morning off?
  28. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Fortunately, court usually is scheduled. Not always as far in advance as the workplace might like, though. I once worked at a place where everybody had to request all their days off for the whole year by 10th January. Glad you don't work there, Gregg.

    A lot of "court" takes place with papers being shuffled. Now I might be talking out of my butt here because my direct experience was civil, not criminal and California, not Massachusetts. I saved my lawyer (and therefore myself) quite a bit of money by being my own courier. I had a dispute with the City, and every piece of paper had to go to the courthouse, the mayor's office, and the city attorney, all in different places. I would go to my lawyer's office and pick up papers, deliver one set at the mayors office (I didn't have to, but I was acting in good faith), another set I had to take a friend with me because in California a neutral party had to "serve" that set. The last set I could take to the courthouse by myself. My lawyer was a little suprised at first, but she got used to having a pro-active client. Right now if a pre-hearing demand for "show us what you got" needs filed, someone else definately has to serve it on CoS (else you be trespassing for the very 1st time), but you could probably deliver the court's copy yourself. Then again Mass might require "licensed process servers" instead of "neutral persons". Just a thought.
  29. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    right now, just the one.
    Followup court dates are typically scheduled only one at a time at the end of each hearing.
  30. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    None, but you plan for the worst and hope for the best. Seems his boss is cool enough and hopefully this gets tossed at the first hearing.

    Predicting outcomes is close to impossible though.
  31. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Let's not bring additional misconceptions here. There is NOTHING Darwinian at all about people being Fair Gamed. There is no nonrandom survival of random mutation, and thus, the whole thing is as far from Darwin as it can be.

    Stay on Focus. If you can (and want) to help gregg, do it.
  32. anonymustang Member

  33. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Jack said to, that's why.

  34. anonypuffs Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    mustang, would it be relevant that they weren't there during business hours? or were they there during the day?
  35. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    daytime regular business hours they were.
    they others with flyers went inside, got asked to leave, and left
    Gregg and cameraman never went inside
  36. anonymustang Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    you mean it was after 10pm?


    maybe you should screenshot as well.
  37. anonypuffs Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    oh christ, that's epic win right there.
  38. anonypuffs Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help



  39. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Looking forward to hearing how Gregg went today chatting with lawyers.

    *twiddles thumbs*

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