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Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by tiggernew, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. Hieronymous Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Not to turn this into a gun debate but my point was that guy was flashing it to people. To get a conceal carry in California you have to know God himself
  2. rof Member

    Apparently he did know xenu because I saw the video where the cop checked his permit. PIs and ex-LEO have an easier time getting approved, often a good ol' boy sheriff can stamp it.
  3. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    There is a big difference between doing something thoughtless and doing something serious. Both these incidents amount to thoughtless. The flyering one, in particular, is something one could easily do without thinking it might cause trouble.

    In my opinion, Anonymous must step up here. If we don't, then people's creativity will be squashed with the fear that they might thoughtlessly do something not intending harm, find themselves in trouble, and have no back-up.
  4. prot Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Gregg, hold on in there, dear :flowers:
  5. rof Member

    But...but...they will do something thoughtless and find themselves in trouble. 2% of them will. 2% of anonymous are thoughtless troublesome harm-doers that can never be rehabilitated! Their creativity is too creative.

    They have no blackup. They have our well wishes but they also won a mental boatload of anguish, uncertainty, and bills. Come on down, you're the next contestant on The Wog Is Wrong! This is not new, this is not unexpected. Buckle down and tread lightly.
  6. nzanon Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    We should all donate money and do whatever it takes so he gets the best defense.

    Anonymous stands behind its own

    EDIT: This really upsets and angers me and ensures I'm never going to give up this fight.
  7. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I hope the kid who wanted to deliver a cake to them is paying attention to this. Ditto for the current topic looking for an anon to take a tour of a org as part of a chat with scientologists.

    I feel for the kid with the flyers, but at the end of the day, that was a dumb move. Ballsy yes, but ultimately putting your hand into a snake pit intentionally.

    You cant just fucking treat scientology like its an animal testing facility or some shit.

    If you picked up a kitten the cos could say you were going to kill it and call cops.
    If you were passing a cos and dropped something in a bin they could call the bomb squad.
    You walk into a cos to hand out flyers, they are going to call you in on trespassing.

    They don't give a fuck if the charges stick, the point was to call it into the cops to get him namefagged. Also, they may have a pretty fair line to hit him with harassment charges. If he was being a harassing prick in there, their cctv footage will show it, if not, then they wont bring it, and you can demand it.


    Moral is.

    DO NOT DO ANYTHING THAT CAN BE SPUN INTO GETTING YOU NAME FAGGED. The cos is not going to play fair. There will be no ten paces taken before they turn to shoot. Anons aren't loaded to the point they can provide cash for legal defense to people who do stuff that while clever is ultimately legally suicidal. Every dollar on that is a dollar away from gas, from leaflets etc. If people cough up on this, great. But it should be a once off, and a stern warning to everyone else to keep their e-peen in their pants, and cut the bravado shit.

    There is no way that kid went in there thinking anything other than, 'this is not technically illegal, this will show them'. And you know what, they showed him.
  8. anonchoir Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Serious/Not Serious

    Circle the option you choose
  9. Evil Zoe Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I know which one I chose....lol
  10. SamuelAdams Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Gregg - It's good to ask for help.

    On the subject of donations, do any lawyer-types know how accessible the information of these legal defense funds are to the opposition? (And Yes, I understand 'this does not constitute legal advice')
  11. TonyMeman Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Ok, help? Let's see...

    The Court is gonna want all your material right on hand.

    Find a notary public. Get everyone who was there to make a statement, get it witnessed and notarized. Make many copies and bring them all to court.

    If you have video evidence, get it duplicated in every format you can think of and bring them all. Probably the easiest to present will be a DVD in a portable DVD player.

    Anticipate! If you haven't been making calls to the CoS, get your phone bills together, copy, and present in court. Start writing out your schedule for the last three months. Try to account for every minute. Be prepared to say you where at X place at Y time and Mr. Z can vouch for you.

    The courts love a prepared man.

    Challenge any evidence of so-called bomb threats. Unless they can show that you made them, they aren't relevant. There's no such thing as guilt by association in any US court.

    And most importantly:

    We you do something provocative, TAKE THE DARN CONSEQUENCES!
  12. anon11 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Don't only think short term. The trial will undoubtley be a footbullet but the CoS may be trying the following:

    1. Scaring you either to stop protesting or to become stressed/violent and mock up
    2. Being able to claim in later press releases that X anons were charged with criminal stuff, without ever mentioning that the trials went nowhere.
  13. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Can we reign in this thread with some facts, please?

    "Rorschach" is charged with "FELONY CRIMINAL THREATS," because he reacted to someone poisoning his stray cat by posting pictures of his guns and warning off home invaders in an Internet posting.
    Here's the basic info. http://remembermudkips.org/
    Here's the original thread: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/showthread.php?t=4531

    Here's the summary on the Gregg situation from Glosslip:
    “Today Gregg received a summons for criminal trespass and criminal harassment.
    An 8 inch stack of complaints have been filed against him by the cult. But they finally got one to stick.
    The Boston anons go out flyering every weekend. On March 9th the anons that Gregg was with decided to hand deliver the flyers to the Church on Beacon Street in Boston .
    As the anons walked up the front stairs to the Boston Church, 4 Scientologists came rushing out and Gregg and the anons handed the Scientologists the flyers. The Scientologists asked the anons to leave and so they did leave, immediately. The anons have it all on video.
    However the Church as managed to somehow get this one to stick and brought charges against Gregg.
    Gregg will be making a scan of the summons for people to see.”

    Here's the Glosslip link: http://glosslip.com/2008/03/27/member-of-anonymous-in-boston-being-fair-gamed-by-scientology/

    Right now Scientology is throwing everything they have at this in the hope of something sticking. Let's not buy into their Black PR by exaggerating these baseless charges into something else.

    Take Wise Beard Man in this classic video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9b_1Wpd7RU
    What are you going to say to him? He shouldn't have been filming the protest? They shouldn't have been on the sidewalk in front of the building? He should have had eyes in the back of his head? Note that he stood his ground, and the cops realized that his accuser was completely full of shit. That's what needs to happen here in the legal system.

    With Rorschach, they allegedly provoked him by killing one of his pets. I dare anyone here not to be disturbed by that.
    With Gregg, his stuck his neck out to get the permit. Also, his Boston group flyers EVERY WEEKEND. At least he's passionate about the cause and gets the message out there.

    If you don't want to contribute, fine. But spare me your Darwinian bullshit about "people are stupid, he had it coming." If you really believed that, you wouldn't bother protesting the Church because it's "just stupid people getting scammed." As for him using a public defender, bargain hunting when your personal freedom is at stake does not make any sense.

    The title of the thread is "Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help," not "Factless Debate on the Merits of Supporting Anonymous Who Get Charged."

    I hear a lot about thousands of other Anonymous who are unable to come to protests, but wage war behind their keyboards. Now's your chance to prove it by getting a shell Paypal account to cover your tracks and donating some money. Send the money you would have spent on seeing "Valkyrie" in the theaters.

    -E
  14. rof Member

    And if you can't help do any of those things and already shot em five bucks, please unload some of the psychic burden on your friends and relatives. Tell them how strongly you feel it's wrong. Tell them we're everyone and no one going up against a billion dollar trans-global cult that hasn't changed in decades.

    Meanwhile our heroes will sit and wait and wonder if they have enough copies. Wonder if they bought enough cameras. Wonder if they will suck on an adulterated toothbrush before the big court date. Wonder if the DA is a tool. Wonder if they did the right thing. Wonder if they made the right friends. Show them you can shoulder it and show them we can move the world.
  15. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    How do you get a shell Paypal account?
  16. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    This is good advice. Thanks, Tony.
  17. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    My apologies. I was under the impression from the trespass charge that he went into the building.

    I'm not advocating darwin here, im just saying in future, dont even provide the oppertunity for spin. If its all on camera, then clearly there is no problem.

    This is probably going to happen a lot. maybe there needs to be an overall legal fund set up. even a dollar from 13 k forum members per month would be pretty impressive. Those without paypal could just give a buck to whoever is organising their monthy protest on the protest day.
  18. AnonNow Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    So (knowing nothing about the US legal system) if this goes to court, will it be in front of a jury or just a judge? And is there free representation in the US?

    If this does go to court I'll gladly contribute to the fund, but my PayPal account is fucked so can some London Anon with a PayPal account PM me? (Maybe to donate on my behalf and I'll give you the cash next protest)
  19. rof Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Clearly you are wrong.
    This gentleman and that other gentleman have a new bunch of problems they didn't have before.
    They have to wait to resolve them.
    Is that fun?
    Do you ride the bus?
    Do you like waiting?

    edit
    First they get arraigned in front of a judge, that is 9APR for Sean or about a month after being charged. Nothing is certain after that since it should get thrown out but there could be bizarre fake evidence or other surprises. Sean is out the bail bondsman fee of $5K to stay at home and try not to freak out for a whole month, gregg will know more soon. There is free rep but that would get steamrolled by the cult.
  20. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    On the bright side, even if they find you guilty its bullshit anyhow. Hell I was arrested 6 times where I am in various protest actions for something else over my lifetime. Including criminal tresspass. Resisting arrest, all sorts of stuff related to protest actions. Including against the U.S. Military as complaint filers.

    Worst thing the judge ever did, even though I was found and (pled) guilty.
    Was a 75$ fine, and walk out. (lowest was 8$)

    Judges DO recognize that your using your first amendment rights and that those you protest against may file suit just to harrass you. Shit happens all the time.

    I suppose if you are in a conservative hellhole and get a real bad judge on a bad day he might make you spend some time in jail for a few days.
    (Have someone stay at your house while your in.)

    This gives you a nice opportunity to swap stories with some of the more interesting folks in society and sit around eating rather bad food for a few days. It would be a good opportunity to spread some knowledge about the church of scientology as well.

    Basicly.... Don't sweat it too much... I know I used to freakout about what was gonna happen in court when I had stuff coming up. Its not worth the time wasted on the worry. A few days, or even worse, it amounts to very little in the long run. I tend to face it with a grin on my face now if it is from what I consider a "just cause".
    ----------

    My favorite line for when I escort people in/out of clinics (yeah that kinda clinic) to keep protestors off their back:

    Addressing dudes blocking the way:
    "Ya know... we have something in common.. you and I."
    Them (all sneary and self-righteous):
    "Oh yeah?? whats that?"
    Me:
    "We are both willing to go to jail today."
    Big shit eatting grin on my face, hunch my shoulders and advance.. and they scatter like the red sea. (Usually..... 1 arrests for them not doing so.. but they were the ones who got the shit end of that stick in court)

    So.. basicly.. I'm saying YOUR the good guy here. No matter what happens you were in the right. People will see it that way, most employers will see it that way. You will get approval for it not people looking down on it.
  21. Plups Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    ^^^^
    THIS!

    Not saying treat it lightly. Not saying get gung ho. But, there's no need to be afraid. If anything, and if possible, savour the moment. You'll tell your kids about it.
  22. tamphex Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    ATTENTION

    Please stop posting personal information. Contact gregg directly if you wish to assist. If you would like to know further information regarding this decision please contact myself or another member of the enturb staff. DO NOT fill this thread with replies to this post.
  23. subgenius Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    a-non-lawyer:
    "Depending on how confident your attorney is, and your willingness to put up with the crap of going all the way through trial, you could probably use this as an opportunity to get all sorts of damning information about the CoS entered into the record."
    Righty right.
    And depending on how far the judge will let you go.
    This is what I envisioned when I was willing to get arrested for what I consider to be an unconstitutional local anti-mask ordinance.
    Everyone, perhaps the Atlanta anons in particular, should turn them into show trials.
    I like the comment above about being willing to get arrested. If one's beliefs aren't that strong, they aren't that strong.
  24. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    They already knew who he was because someone had to sign for a protest permit in his area. They have been filing tons of bullshit reports against him for a while now and they finally found one that could get him into court although It doesn't look like they'll get much further than that. Sean was deliberately provoked into what little reaction he gave them but he never threatened them. It's easy to play armchair quarterback from the safety of your computer but nobody really knows for certain how they will react in a particular situation until they are actually faced with it.

    If you had to sign your name to a permit go ahead and assume they know who you are. If you were followed back to your vehicle or while you were in it assume that they know who you are. Just because you didn't see anybody following you doesn't mean that they weren't and don't assume they don't know who you are because you haven't received your DVD prize package yet. There isn't a person here who is immune from being named so you might want to think about how you treat those that have been because you could log on and find your face on youtube or your name on an injunction tomorrow.

    This is the same crap they pulled on the LMT and I'm shocked they waited this long to do it. From here on out they are going to try and get us charged with anything they can so we need to act accordingly.

    Keep a reasonable distance between yourself and their property.

    Do not mail them anything and do not offer them anything.

    Do not call them for any reason.

    Do not accept anything from them and don't follow them onto "church" property.
  25. DarthXenu Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Got little time, so I could not read the whole threat. Please excuse me is this has already been said.

    Some ideas...

    Has anyone contacted Electronic Frontier Foundation?

    http://www.eff.org/work

    They might be interested in taking this pro-bono. I will email them after work today.

    This is indeed a huge test for anonymous. The Co$ is trying to sue us into bankruptcy. We have to address this and have a win.

    We may need some kind of legal fund. It could be managed by some highly trusted guy or lad, like some of the critics. Tory, WBM, Tommy Gorman, maybe even Paulette Cooper.

    9000 anons x 5 bucks monthly = 45000 monthly = 540000 yearly. It would be even better if some of the money collected from the judgments was given back to the fund.

    $cientology is sending a message. They will use their megabucks to sue for whatever reason, "not to win, just to discourage". They will fuck hard with any namefagged anons. They will fairgame us. Some anons might be discourage if we can not come up with an answer that gives us all some practical security against fairgaming.
  26. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    listen man, don't pull that butthurt on me. i was saying it in reference to the fact that they wont be able to make the charges stick if it went down as described and is on camera. so please, no bus speech. in situations like this in the us can you counter sue later for legal expenses/defamation etc, or does the loser automatically pay?

  27. rof Member

    Shut up, bitch. I'm saying it doesn't matter if it's bullshit. You are wrong. It sucks to have to go through it because the legal system is so slow. They got there because they got there. The biggest problem is that no one knows what will happen next. No amount of guessing can change that and humans hate that. Fuck, robots hate that. They go all ERROR ERROR ERROR
  28. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Who said it didnt suck, who said it was fun?? All i fucking care about is, if the charges are bullshit and they have NO evidence, then they dont get criminal records. So there is a massive difference between whether the charges are bullshit or not. So in that case,to the ' you are wrong' i say

    NO YOU!
  29. Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    gregg.... shit :(

    it's going to get bigger and is important proof.. i agree
  30. Anonymousedk Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    This is a good idea!

    Exactly.
    Gregg, I'd be happy to help out, but we need a bit more info first.
  31. D... Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I don't understand how people are crying stupid. Obviously, hindsight is a bitch and it probably would have been smarter not to go anywhere near the church, but who in the right mind thinks "if I go up the stairs- I'll be taken to court." It's not like they actually went into the church and rickrolled danced random members, they handed out fliers while they were outside.

    Gregg is the only one that got slapped with this, even when there were others, right? Then it's because he is the one that got the permit which got him namefagged. Getting permits to protest and thus putting your name to paper is not the safe way to go, but it's not stupid either. CoS is obviously out to dump bullshit any way they can, resorting to ridiculous methods.

    None of us should be surprised, but we should still be outraged. :/ The "Oh, it was going to happen" doesn't mean it makes it any better that it did.
  32. Robert S Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    This This This! The EFF already has scads of documents about Scientology on their web site and we've already linked to their docs in the HARD FACTS project. It's a natural fit. Please darth let us hear results of your email. Oh fuck that I'm emailing them myself too.
  33. User Name Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    I don't remember seeing it mentioned in this thread but Gregg, you were invited into the CoS, they can't really charge you with Tresspass when they invited people in.

    Go find any news article where the scientologist spokespeople say something to the extent of "anyone wanting to learn more about scientology can visit their local org".

    Yes, you were distributing fliers, but given the chance I assume you would be willing to talk to scientologists about what we were protesting and their thoughts on the matter. Their spokespeople said you were free to come in and then they try to slap you with trespassing? Fuck that.
  34. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    YES,

    Danger=Opportunity

    Scientology is scared to death of the legal discovery process... and unlike 1995, we know far better today what to ask and who to ask about...

    in 1995 we found the identities of some of scientolgy's online posters, using a " request for admission"

    "Plaintiff's response to defendant Arnaldo Lerma's
    Third set of Interrogatories ( Nos 1-18 )

    Interrogatory #1:
    Identify by name and last known address all persons who played any role in any cancellation of postings made by anyone else to the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup including but not limited to, those cancellations reflected in the documents produced in this action bearing bates stamp numbers in the ranged R001351 through R001358.

    Response to Interrogatory No 1
    See RTC's objection to the Interrogatory. Notwishstanding its objections, RTC responds that the following people have been involved in efforts to have posters of infringing works and their access providers remove infringing postings: Helena Kobrin, Allan Cartwright, and Warren McShane.

    ------

    Interrogatory #8
    Indentify the full legal name, last known address, and position held, if any, with plaintiff, the CSI, the CST, BPI or any organization affiliated with any of these organizations, of the person who has posted messages as milne@delphi.com in the alt.religion.scientology newsgroup

    Response to interrogatory #8
    Notwithstanding RTC's objection to this Interrogatory, RTC is informed that this is the internet address of Andrew Milne, an employee of the Church of Scientology International, 6331 Hollywood Blvd, Hollywood CA, 90028 and that Mr. Milne is the person who posts from this address.
  35. Anon23517 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    ^ ^ This. EFF are good people.

    And to repeat myself, people who are saying various versions on the theme of 'they did it, they deserve it,' STFU, they've probably said a shit tonne worse to themselves about it and don't need it from here as well. Offer advice, give support, but like someone said earlier, the whole blame game schtick is not helpful.
  36. Evey Hammond Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    My thoughts are with you, Gregg. And as soon as I get home today my PayPal monies will be too. This just sucks.

    Someone asked upthread, how do you get a shell PayPal account?
  37. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    'they did it, they deserve it,

    wow this sounds so familiar...(flashbacks to 1995) 'they did it, they deserve it,... And Gregg, call me if you want 703-241-1498 I don't know what I can do, but I'll try to keep you from stepping into the next tiger pit...they are currently crafting for you

    And I'll make a prediction - (I believe This has happened before ) - at some point scientology's lawyers will offer to DROP the charges if you will sign an affidavit bearing false witness against anonymous or even the webmasters of critical sites..

    As this is entering the legal arena of skirmishes, it would be helpful if folks would STUDY the tactics used during litigation by Scientology see the last posting on this page (Scroll down) for links. Stepping Into It Part 1 Everything they will do is to TRICK you into thinking you have to LIE. This is how they 'got' Bob Minton and tried to 'get' me and others. This is standard litigation tactic..

    Hubbard dictates "Fight every skirmish as a Battle"
  38. Daywatch Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    guys
    please

    this thread is NOT

    about

    2nd amendment rights, abortion, conservatives, liberals,etc!

    stop being asstards

    we KNEW the Co$ would try this crap, we knew it from the beginning.

    the OGs have experience with this lets contact/listen to them and support our fellow Anons

    we have at least 4 people being charged with MANUFACTURED CRIMES
    let's do what we do best, get this information to every sauce that exisits

    stop the partisan faggotry and the petty bickering butthurtness!!!
  39. Anon23517 Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    Thank you, Arnie. You said what I was trying to much more succinctly!
  40. lermanet_com Member

    Re: Gregg Summoned, Needs Legal Help

    These skirmishes MUST be taken VERY seriously and fought well to a WIN. that means raise the cash and get a lawyer...

    In order to have the "color of law" to file a RICO lawsuit, one needs a pattern of repeated criminal acts, called "predicate acts" - what they ARE doing is trying to craft, contrive the predicate "acts" so they can file a RICO lawsuit.. which will be expensive to fight off... if these small skirmishes are not taken seriously and WON outright.

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