Gold Base property line.

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by TomVorm, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

  2. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    bump bump

  3. Yoni Alter Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    So assuming I can't read maps, does the map indicate there is still a place to raid legally at Gold Base with the new ordinance?
  4. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    According to the county lawyer, one can still raid at the various entrances. Last week's arrests were for "trespassing," but apparently the ordinance "was not yet in effect."

    What's interesting/confusing about these maps is that according to the ones I found (above) much of the area (including main gate, it seems) is actually zoned Open Space: Conservation. I don't understand how it could also be zoned for residential, as the first maps (apparently) say it is. How can both be true? Which zoning pre-dated the other? Was it changed to accomodate Scilon developments? Is it correctly zoned Open Space EVEN NOW? What is truth?

  5. Suzette Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    This depends on about six million different things.

    First of all, Stone and the council said over and over again that Gold Base does not fall under the ordinance because the pickets there are not "targeted residential" pickets. That is, they aren't interested in the residences, they are "targeted" at the Church of Scientology, so they don't apply.

    But even if the pickets were targeted at the residents, then it is unclear how the 30 ft from a property line rule would apply here, because the property is mixed use.

    But even if the worst case is true and it's 30 feet from the whole shebang, it still isn't clear how the law applies because the pickets take place on the road right-of-way. Some people argue that the right of way is a 100 foot strip going down the center of the road, others that its 60 feet.

    Apparently it is 100 feet for a state highway, but only 60 feet for most other roads, and this road is a former state highway, so you can make a case for either 60 or 100 feet.

    If it's 60 feet, then it's 30 feet from the north side and 30 feet from the south side, thus eating up the whole road. This was apparently the original intent of the ordinance.

    But if it's 100 feet, then it's 30 feet of forbidden zone, then 8 feet of shoulder and whatnot, and then 24 feet of dangerous roadway, then 8 more feet of shoulder, and finally 30 feet of forbidden, so in theory they could protest in those 8 feet corridors.

    tl;dr--Probably has no effect, but the whole thing is such a mess, that you can assume the Scilons will try and use it.
  6. The Blue Jay Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I'm begining to feel that we never will

    they say that, and anons get arrested for this, so fuck it we should try the balloon idea (protest in the air)
  7. Yoni Alter Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    So basically some arrests will be made, it'll be totally unclear whether the arrests were valid, and the council will suspend the ordinance again.
  8. restim Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Not quite.

    Some arrests will be made. The DA may or may not proceed to trial. If a trial occurs, the protesters may or may not be convicted. But no matter what, the process will cost arrested protesters time, stress, and legal fees.

    Some people will choose not to protest because they do not wish to risk being arrested.

    The cult has achieved its goal.
  9. subgenius Member

    OK to protest per the ordinance, but you could be arrested for trespassing.
    I could be wrong, but that seems like a tarp.

    That idea's full of hot air.
    (Sorry, couldn't resist)
  10. Yoni Alter Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Sad Anon is sad.
  11. T.W.C_Anon Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Because he probably wasn't trespassing??? If the area in question was private property AND the scilons didn't want people on it they should of had it fenced AND signed. They didn't have either so they fail as only scientologists can fail, miserably.

    If AOs laywer is half as good as I think he is he will walk from the charges despite his eccentricity in handling the situation. Remember, the scilons don't care about winning they only care about attacks and tying up their enemies in legal process, which so far they have done quite well imho. They will continue to do this until someone can get a court order that states the bearer can protest and exercise his/her 1st amendment rights without sanction or harassment. Then when Scientology pulls bullshit they quickly find themselves in hot water for contempt of court. When the California legal system realizes the cost of Scientology and their faggotry then maybe the cult will finally get dealt with like they should of been along time ago.
  12. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    It's an Abusement Park!

    Mr. HubToad's Wild Mindtrip is one of the rides...
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    With a museum in the Abasement?
  14. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    So, here's the Caltrans Encroachment Permit Application Guide in respect of State Highways. At pp4-5:

  15. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I'd like to try for some clarity on the county highway / state highway business.

    I've been looking into the California Streets and Highways Code. As I understand it, Route 79 is by statute declared to be a state highway.
    Route 79 is also part of the state scenic highway, btw.

    A state highway need not be "owned" by the State.
    So, the Code allows for parts of the state highway falling within the town of Hemet to be "relinquished" to the county, and thereby no longer be "state highway".
    Two questions:
    1. Has Caltrans "relinquished" the parts of Route 79 within Hemet city limits to the county?
      [*]Does Gilman Hot Springs Road fall within the limits of the city of Hemet?
    If the answer to either of these questions is "no", then I think the road is a state highway.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    the section of road running through gold base is not within the limits of the city of Hemet.
    It is to the north of hemet just outside the city limits of San Jacinto . It is in what is called the San Jacinto sphere of influence
    gold is marked roughly with the black square
    the map is from THE Riverside County Land Information System

  17. diesel1967 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    That is a great find TinyDancer. It's a fair bet that the clams didn't obtain an encroachment permit for their landscaping, planting, modifying (pansifying maybe?)vegetation.
  18. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I wondered whether the police saw the driveway and made assumptions about it being CoS property, whereas this Guide makes it clear that allowing an encroachment doesn't grant any property rights. (The Code itself makes that clear also.)

    And, thanks Anon for clearing up the location re Hemet ^^. There is a similar provision regarding the city limits of San Jacinto. It sounds from what you say that the road is not within the city of San Jacinto either, though.
  19. anonhuff Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Here is a california map detailing which district each county belongs to, and the address and phone numbers of their respective district encroachment permit office.

    Riverside County's District Encroachment Permit Office location and phone number:
    District 08
    464 W 4th Street MS 619
    San Bernardino, CA 92401-1400
    (909) 383-4536
    (909) 383-4224 FAX

    Maybe some more information here, this is the County of Riverside Transportation Department's online home page:
    more from here:
  20. subgenius Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I guarantee that anons here have done more than 100 times the amount of research the County lawyer did.
  21. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Tom has made posts on this thread mentioning the State's 100 feet right of way. Not easement. The words Right of Way. He has also mentioned info about a 60 feet county right of way.

    If we are talking about a right of way, then it would be an encroachment if it is in their right of way. There would be no property rights. Who would own the flowers? I think it would be a gift to the State if put on their Right of Way but that is not clear. If you put a sidewalk in their Right of Way ..I believe you are responsible for it. You don't have the right to the property but do you have a property right to the items you put on their property.

    The State does have laws governing their flowers, vegetation, etc.

    There is still an issue about blocking the entry even if the entry into their property belongs to the State.

    Imagine hippies in the 60's forming a chain and blocking the entrance into a place protesting the Vietnam War.

    But a protester standing on the side of the road several feet down the curb as GB was standing when he was told he was trespassing. RIDICULOUS.

    The next step is to find out if they applied for an encroachment permit. The office might look it up with a phone call versus going into the office and having to look through the books if it is not online.

    50 feet from the middle of the road (for the 100 feet right of way) is not really very wide but it seems to me it would cover at least part of the flower area.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Gilman hot spring road is listed to have a 100' right of way

  23. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    How much is an encroachment easement? Someone who has been namefagged can apply to put up a small memorial for the girl who was killed out there. This might bring things to a head and get a lot of things clarified and out in the open for the public.

    Haven't looked through this yet

    It looks like they charge an hourly this is probably cost prohibitive for a small memorial.
  24. firebug Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    This is approximately 50'

  25. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    30 feet from the property line in a residential target picket is going to make you go across the road. That is assuming the property line starts at the 50 feet demarcation. I would argue that one person standing in the middle of the State's Right of Way directly in front of the guard shack does not block the entrance.

    They have a land use attorney. You would think they would have gotten the encroachment permit. The Board would have known about the construction. But it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't get the permit.

    I think this should be brought up to the Board of Supervisors. Bob Buster is already thinking about this. Protesters should be allowed to walk on the State's Right of Way for their safety and not have to worry about some recently planted flowers that in all likelihood were planted up next to the curb to try to thwart the protesters.
  26. anonhuff Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    By applying for a permit, the applicant is required to comply with ordinance 499 (amended to 499.11) of Riverside County. (dox (application permit itself) here: )

    You can find the full text of the ordiance here:

    Some excerpts:
    So, assuming they did apply for a permit, the County Transportation Director either isn't aware of, or agrees implicitly that razor wire, motion detectors, plants and other vegetation directly up to the curb, and whatever else was added in the encroachment area, is reasonably necessary for the performance of the functions of Golden Era Productions, a nonprofit entity under the umbrella of the Church of Scientology. This again all comes down to what area around highway 79 is deemed county property under the encroachment of scientology compound.
  27. anonhuff Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    If Jeff Stone can get an ordinance passed on the possible possibilities of maybe something bad sometime happening maybe possibly, then I think my questions might possibly maybe somehow someday be relevant.

    Think about it.
  28. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    There was a person videotaping outside the polling place of a rough neighborhood during Obama's election. They had members of the Black Panthers outside. The police couldn't shoo away one of them because he lived in the building. They claimed they were security.

    The person doing the videotaping had an official pass. I think it was member of the press but it might have been poll watcher. He had a blog. He kept waving around his pass as the Black Panthers tried to get him to leave.

    So what does it take to be a member of the press and observe voting. I think this is a good thing to look into for those that have been namefagged.
  29. AngryGayPope1 Member

    Gold base is obviously wigging out the board of supers

    Since Nathan Baca's gold base stories started airing it is obviously wigging out the board of supers. They cancelled their weekly meeting today. The very day he is running the "local corruption" section of his story.

    Thanks so much for doing all this research on the Gold Property line. All this will be brought up at Anonorange's trial in May and also in the jury trial I will demand, which will happen in the fall.
  30. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    The claim of a 100-foot right-of-way, although indicated on at least one document and one database graphic, has not (to my knowledge) been substantiated.

    What is needed (particularly for AGP's defense) is a legal document that applies the 100-foot width to that section of Gilman Hot Springs Road.

    I have read here, that some type of encroachment was acknowledged by Gold Base (when they applied for something like a zoning variance or permit for existing fence locations). But I don't have that documentation.

    Having a report of encroachment substantiated by a government authority (like the County road department), would be a good way to obtain official survey data and updated road location measurements (and it would be for free).

    Because any Caltrans application may have expired (when state highway 79 was re-routed to another street), this may instead be a "blanket" document, applied to all "secondary roads" within the County by something like a County ordinance.
  31. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    It would be entirely appropriate and legal, for the Riverside County Transportation Department, to be asked to provide an updated survey of a portion of the right-of-way for Gilman Hot Springs Road in advance of relevant legal proceedings in Riverside County Court (and possibly as factual support to a planed future encroachment complaint to the Zoning Department as well).

    Specific citations that should be referenced:

    Location: Range 1 West, Township 4 South, Section 9

    Assessor's Parcel Number 430-150-001 (open lot,apparently where AO was arrested),
    APN 430-150-013 address 19750 Gilman Hot Springs Road, and
    APN 430-150-001 address 19625 Gilman Hot Springs Road

    (Also, any permit or zoning variance application by Gold Base, relating to their fences)

    The Transportation Department's contact information is on their web page at

    Transportation Department Home Page

    Correspondence may be addressed to the Survey Department, with a copy also sent to the Transportation Director Juan Perez.
  32. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Riverside County Ordinance 514, prohibits firearms use within 300 yards of a building (that is typically occupied).
  33. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    To update this thread: Apparently the Riverside County Board of Supervisors earlier today (May 3, 2009) approved a change of status of a portion of Highway 79.

    Below is a repost, of comments from that thread, that may be relevant to that action..

    The "re-routing" issue requires some investigation.

    IF this is to downgrade the Gilman Hot Springs Road,
    from what appears to be a "secondary highway" status
    with Riverside County, THEN what this may do is reduce
    the width of the public easement from its (apparent)
    current 100' width to a total 60' width.

    IF this is what is being discussed, it's also a "back door"
    method of changing the law to avoid Gold Base from
    having to re-locate property improvements (like the
    curbs and entrance area fences) further away from
    the centerline of the road. It would also help Gold Base
    avoid having to file for "as built" construction permits -
    which would amount to a de-facto admission of encroachment
    on public property (which would, in turn, be admissable
    evidence related to the AO and AGP cases).

    Please Note, the use of the word "IF" in the above.
    Additional research is required, to verify these claims.
  34. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Such an approach of making local authorities adjust to suit the cult's needs fits the fundamental lack of social integration the cult loves to show.
    IF this is the case it is a violation of the local citizens' rights by its own officials IMHO. Scientology loves to force itself and its will on "wogs" and some weak or blackmailed officials let them get away with it.
  35. Re: Gold Base property line.

    San Jacinto Community College is two miles down the street.

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