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Gold Base property line.

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by TomVorm, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. Re: Gold Base property line.

    You are correct, but absent any other documentation they are quite authoritative.

    The survey results and maps I cited were not from 1926, they were from 1994 and 1996.

    Actually it went from being a State highway to a county road. The county accepted Caltrans deeded the property to the them in exchange for building the current bridge over the San Jacinto River when Caltrans rerouted hi-way 79 down Sanderson.

    Have you seen that map or documentation to your other claims, or are they just rumored? It seems to me that keeping any such map or legislative action secret would not serve much of a legal purpose. It would be available to all parties in a legal action through discovery and if the information would exonerate a party, why keep is secret?

    If I find any more documentation, I will share it.
  2. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Yes, a map with a 100-foot right of way for Highway 79 through Gold Base, does in fact exist.

    But as this is an active legal matter, and to avoid being the cause of some of the usual Scilon court BS, I'll just carefully allege here (with numerous weasel-words) that I "believe" that:

    "persons (unidentified) who have the ability to contact AO" may be aware of it,
    and I would guess one or more (unidentified persons) will act upon it however they wish (in conjunction with their legal activity) should they deem it wise.
  3. Re: Gold Base property line.

    This may or may not apply to the OP


    jethro-tull.gif
  4. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Is it worth mentioning that earthquakes/liquefaction will tend to slide things around a bit in that part of the world?... LOL LOL LOL
  5. diesel1967 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Be very interesting to know if that dirt track is a public or private road. If it is a private road you'd think the scilons would have had a sign indicating so.
  6. Re: Gold Base property line.

    Concentrate on the land ownership. The portion of the dirt track on the county right of way is publicly accessible but when it crosses onto private property the track is not publicly accessible; it is private property.

    On both sides of the road around Gold Base, the property is owned by a CoS entity. The only public land is the county right of way on both sides of Gilman Hot Springs Road.
  7. Obi-Wan-anon Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    To this I agree: the legal teams of both parties should have the 100' right-of-way map available to them. We, (WWP) are not parties to the action, and have no LEGAL right to the map.

    And it could be one of the reasons that the cult tried to get AO to agree to a lesser charge: there's just some things they want to keep secret. If the true property line gets out, it can cause other legal actions to be brought forth.

    It could be that the guard shack (or other scilon buildings) are on or within the 100' right-of-way. Gold base may be forced to re-establish their fence line. And if that happens, when they replace it, the board may question the razor wire and spikes.

    Just sayin'.
  8. francie Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Trespass signage laws require that a NO TRESPASSING sign be placed AT EVERY ENTRANCE (as well as 3 per mile along the perimeter). If the road is a private road, then it SHOULD have had a NO TRESPASSING sign at its entrance. I think it has been made clear by the various videos that AO never walked past any NO T/P signs on his way to ask that dude what the (bleep) he was doing with a flare behind AO's car.
  9. Smurf Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Wrong. Those of us here that deal in reality, and who have been to Gold numerous times, know precisely where the trespass signs are ...

    Given the number of protesters that have been there, over the years, on many different occasions, and who have done so legally, why is it that AO is the only one that didn't see any NO TRESPASSING signs??
  10. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Someone asked about mapping Gold?
    Well lookie what I found in a fascinating article by Matt Davis of The Portland Mercury about ex-scilon Jeff Hawkins (August 7th, 2008)>
    http://www.portlandmercury.com/extras/pdf/feature/base-map.pdf

    I'd have posted the pic but its large. This has probably already been posted somewhere but I thought it'd be good to bring it to the forefront again as I believe it is pertinant to this thread and to the protests at GEP. If someone already beat me to it, well, I sux *shrugs* If not, I can has caeks?

    The article is well worth a read for those whod liek moar insider stuff and/or aren't familiar with Co$, the quotes about DM paint a frightening picture indeed.
    Here> http://www.portlandmercury.com/news/selling_scientology/Content?oid=862344

    Carry on :)

    Linx for the retarded? (*cough*me *cough*)
  11. subgenius Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Its fun to do a fly by with Google Earth....
  12. firebug Member

  13. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Got that right Subgenius, nice of Mr. Hawkins to add the placement info too :)
    Wonder where the crematorium and graveyard is....
    Interesting that their 'look out' (like, LOOK OUT!) isn't even on their own property, hmmmmm, wonder if they have permission to even be there, and if they do, by whom? Possible go go check it out picnics? (probably dangerous tho, too many places around there to bury bodies imho).

    Tahnks Firebug for the great link! Hadn't seen that one before, cool!

    Edit> As a matter of curiousity has anyone tried to find out how many weapons are registerd at Gold?
    Is this public info even? We know Wee davey lieks his guns, I have a sneaking hunch there's all sort of illegal arsenal shit going on (preparing for end-of-world shite). Jest wonderin'.
  14. RightOn Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Wow that is crazy.. its like being in a hot air balloon ride.
    It makes you realize jusy how vast that freakin' property is. All those rows of buildings and that giant mansion..... how the hell many people live there now? Thats an awful lot of housing.
  15. tendervittles Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Is there anything useful here? I don't know where the protests and tommydavis tommydavis occur, so I cannot discern.

    2qmgkd2.jpg
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Judging by the color coding and legend, it looks like the entire property is zoned agriculture or estate-density. That doesn't square with the high density dormitories they imprison the five hundred or so SO and RPFers. As far as I know, you can't just put whatever density of housing you please on your property. You need to be in an area that's zoned for the density you intend to have or get a zoning variance.
    Seems like a mighty big possibility of a zoning violation that the county supervisors should be made aware of.
  17. Ima Nonymous Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    At the one of the supervisors meetings they claimed they were zoned "mixed use" residential and business. There is a special color for that on the legend in the lower left but this map from 2003 specifies no "mixed use" areas on the property.
  18. Ogsonofgroo Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Interesting on closer examination, by the look of things according to the index, and if I'm reading this right (suspect *sigh*), the base is both estate and medium density (yellow parts) where the people are, which means 2-5 D.U./acre (I am guessing that this means 'dwelling units'. If this is so I am guessing that it should be interpreted as NOT allowing mass people storage in one spot, ie. 50 unit apt. because you own 50 acres. I think it'd be worth lookin' into anyhow for any nearby locals who have access to county records. I have mentioned elsewhere that I thought there are quite a few things worthy of scrutany, like water/sewage, health codes, and the like, there seems to be some conflicting land use issues with it being a business location as well. No doubt, like just about anything Co$ is involved with, its a tangled web of 'whofuckinknows', but for someone with the time it could prove to be another source of bother & nails. Co$'s own flouting of laws etc. is famous, I have gut feeling that on such a sized property with the numbers of people they claim live there, that there is much fucktardiness going on., aside from it ressembling (and really being) a prison compound of sorts (the whole RPF thingy). Now, whether this matters or not in the big picture is another matter entirely, but being the paranoid/secretive cultists they are I think any hole-crawling-info can't be a bad thing (except for headaches produced from digging through some of the poo-piles). All the building permits and land usage claims should be publicly accessable I thots. :)
    Nuff 'o' me boring blatherin' fer nao.

    @Vittles>
    Try this map with notations by Jeff Hawkins on where is what, including the two personnel tunnels used to skuttle victims around :) Its actually a pretty cool pic worth saving for trhem that be interested, file is around 1mb.

    http://www.portlandmercury.com/extras/pdf/feature/base-map.pdf
  19. Ima Nonymous Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Your link got decorated.
    It's at:
    www.portlandmercury.com/extras/pdf/feature/base-map.pdf
    Looks like the dorms are definitely in an estate density zone to me.
    Also, if you zoom in just north of the dorms, you can see the berm around the tunnel that goes under the state highway. I wonder if it's "permitted" or if they just did it without saying anything to the county and the state.
  20. Ima Nonymous Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    I was just having a look at Google Earth.
    There is an interesting little path cut across the vegetation leading up the hill to the spot that I'm guessing is Eagles Nest (on public conservation land). Plug in these co-ordinates for a look:
    116°59'12.89"W 33°50'20.39"N
  21. AngryGayPope1 Member

    aerial photos


    Yes these photos are great and give you a better sense of the property than being there. Most people who go are impressed with the size of gold but say they thought it would be bigger. That's because the way the property looks from the road you can't tell how big it is.
  22. tendervittles Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Thanks for the Jeff Hawkins map. That's helpful.

    It will take a closer bit of triangulation to be sure, but if you asked me, I'd reckon that the guard booth and main driveway, right up to the road, are zoned "Conservation: Open Space."

    That would be funny.



  23. tendervittles Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Out of compliance with zoning upside-down, backwards and sideways. Starting with the main guard gate.

    34q1pxi.jpg.png
  24. Sefus Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    I'm sure everyone has seen this but here's some from google earth of the eagles nest at gold and the road leading to it.

    eagles-nest-1.jpg.gif

    eagles-nest-2.jpg.gif

    eagles-nest-3.jpg.gif

    eagles-nest-4.jpg.gif

    anyway. click em if you want.
  25. subgenius Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Here's "Bonnie View" built for when Ron returns
    [IMG]
  26. subgenius Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    I think this is the guard shack aerial view from the rear
    [IMG]
  27. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I admit to being completely incompetent and confused in these matters, but could anyone see if there is a glimmer of sense here?

    In view of the maps posted by Tom Vorm in this thread:
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/observations-300-ft-limit-riverside-33526/

    How do those zoning assignments comport with the one on this map?

    2qmgkd2.jpg

    and a little more closely, with Jeff Hawkins' map beside it:

    34q1pxi.jpg.png

    Don't these guys seem wildly, bafflingly out of compliance? And is the main guard booth and entrance really zoned "Open Space: Conservation"? Wouldn't that be charming?
  28. subgenius Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Open, notorious, continuous, and hostile. ("hostile"=in a legal sense, not in a lay sense)
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    good questions
    and maps
  30. muldrake Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    One wild guess is because AO is the only one who's been there who is a total fucking retard. Regardless, though, it doesn't matter where the signs are if they disagree with the real property limits. It also doesn't matter where they are if they're statutorily insufficient to constitute adequate notice of trespassing, regardless of whether other people, less retarded than AO, noticed them. What would be important in that regard is WHAT the signs are, not WHERE they are.
  31. basil Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    ... plus don't you have to give a fair chance for someone to leave the property before you can claim 'trespass', never mind a citizen's arrest, if it is not clear where the boundaries are?

    Common sense says the boundary would be marked by fence or a wall, and the uncared for scrubland between that and the wall is simply that - scrubland.
  32. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Or "Open Space: Conservation" (see above)

  33. Ravenmore Member

    Re: MARK BUNKER AND MARK LOWELL ARRESTED AT GOLD!

    Mind highlighting said nest? I can't tell, is it that little house thing?
  34. LocalSP Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I have sent maps to a close relative who is an urban planner and will post their findings once they have had the chance to look them over.
  35. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Cool, thanks!

  36. tendervittles Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    [COLOR="Navy"]Please excuse me for recapitulating a bunch of things in this post, but I think it could be useful. Perhaps it is only me who is confused -- but there is paradoxical official cartography![/COLOR]

    From posts by Tom Vorm in a different thread:

    For future "raiders," here's some land boundary information surrounding Gold Base.

    Source is the Riverside County Planning Department.

    Actual property lines shown, are just a bit off (see where the road runs below the highway boundaries to confirm), but they give a good idea of locations for properties with Assessor Parcel Numbers (APN's) 430-140-008 (Most Northern lot), 430-150-001 (looks like the letter "K", entirely vacant land, appears to be where AO was arrested), 430-150-013 (19750 street address, Gold Base immediately south of the highway) and 430-150-01 (19625 street address, Gold Base, a "sliver" immediately North of the Highway).

    The highway right of way was referenced in earlier property surveys (RS 59/37) of 1971-1973 as a 60-foot right of way (originally per Riverside County Map 3-E-1 (65-A), possibly a grant to Riverside County dated December 15, 1926 (which would be found in Book 544, Page 549 of Deeds at the County Recorder)

    However, the width of that right of way apparently expanded to 100-foot wide (per an engineer's map for Gold Base circa 1987-1988). I do not have a reference number for that expansion, but it may have been part of a general state highway upgrade at the time (as cars became more powerful and required wider-radius curves, in the early 1970's). The official land acquisition grant for the widening of Highway 79, would be a factor in determining if fences, curbs, and other improvements, do in fact trespass on public land (which would impact where "acceptable" protest areas could also be).

    Acquisition deeds by Building Management Services (from CSI) included #1989-0303632 (for APN 430-150-001),
    #1989-9922766 (for APN 430-140-008),
    #1989-9933414 (for APN 430-150-014). Another deed is
    #1988-082334 (not sure where that is). These were originally parts of the "San Jacinto Viejo" and "San Jacinto Nuevo" Ranchos from a court partition of 1890.

    Curiously, the 1988-1989 Building Management Service deeds only mention a 60-foot wide right of way for the highway.

    xbd0ky.jpg

    Here's a view of the area zoning, also courtesy of the Riverside County Planning Department. This map indicates most of the area is "W-2" zoning, and is mixed-use (not exclusively residential). However, many uses do require submission of a Conditional Use Permit, which has been established in the "sliver" shaped APN 430-150-014 property of Gold Base just North of the highway (as CUP-02943 in Riverside County).

    View attachment goldbasemap2lg3.jpg

    Some of the uses approved for W-2 zoning include "(27) Printers, publishers, film studios, or recording studios as accessory uses to an educational institution, church, temple or other place of religious worship." (Meaning, the scienos, apparently did have a hand in formulating allowable uses for this zoning type definition).

    ==
    You really need to compare these "area zoning" boundaries, to the actual maps for this area (identified as book 430/page 15) with lots numbered 001, 013, and 014 by assignment.

    The Riverside County assessor is online, and you can download their APN maps (search 430150001, 430150013, 430150014). [see below -- I have done this]

    ==

    From post by me, earlier in this thread:

    In view of the maps posted by Tom Vorm [...]: Observations on 300 ft. Limit in Riverside

    How do those zoning assignments comport with the one on this map?

    2qmgkd2.jpg

    and a little more closely, with Jeff Hawkins' map beside it:

    34q1pxi.jpg.png

    Don't these guys seem wildly, bafflingly out of compliance? And is the main guard booth and entrance really zoned "Open Space: Conservation"? Wouldn't that be charming?

    ====

    The assessor maps referenced above by Tom Vorm:

    0001
    34ih8y0.jpg

    0013
    15hehlg.jpg

    0014
    686m9h.jpg

    For good measure (no pun intended)

    207ns0k.jpg

    2lo3ehs.jpg

    w1afzn.jpg
  37. BigBeard Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Well, if nothing else ^^^this verifies "Gold" is in the Eastern Municipal Water Districk, so must comply with the new restrictions that go into affect March 1st, 2009.

    The fines for get pretty steep real quick for repeat violations. So it'll be interesting to see if the "sprinkler tech" continues.

    BigBeard
  38. Relyt Member

  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Anonyland?
  40. ScudMuffin Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Fixed

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