Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Re: ORLY!?? STONE at it again?

reported previously, here..

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/249-...ls-under-road-ferry-golden-era-workers-52036/
and here
http://forums.whyweprotest.net/15-media/gilman-springs-road-closed-issues-safety-51244/3/#post984261

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

More from AO:

Thanks for your post on WWP.

A few things to add. The tunnel is no secret, we've known since the first Gold Base raid.

The first issue is that Cathrine Fraser in her first discussions with the valley chronicle, tried to bring up safety of the Gold Base RESIDENTS as an issue argument for closing the road. She probably assumed that the paper didn't know about the tunnels and that was a good bet on her part. Unfortunately, she didn't expect us to write to inform the paper and the paper clarified the issue.

Second, Fraser claims that the tunnels are a problem because cars can't run through them. THEY DON"T USE CARS on the base. In fact, the main reason I took the powerful camera at Gold on Oct 26, was to take pictures of the dust accumulation of the few cars stuck on the parking lot there. They use motorcycles, golf carts, bicycles to move around and lots of people RUNNING (RPF). Yes RPF people are forced to run on base and this has been confirmed by people I know who had contracts on the base.

Third. The reason that road is dangeous is that it's too winding and narrow, considering that it's a state highway and most people drive 50-55 on it. It should have the full 100 ft width as order by the county of Riverside back in 1988. I attach the staff report and conditional use permit, with condition of use #1 being the 100 ft width. Since then, they have encroached on that land and no permits were acquired. Note another instance (attached) of them trying to put a fence on public property. The road is flanked by very wide berm and a wide island in the middle leaving acutal road space effectively only about 30 feet (each side 15 feet). I checked the fact they don't have permits to do that with a title company and the planning office of Riverside county.

So there!

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Is it a "state highway" or was it a "state highway"?

Wasn't the "state highway" designation relocated to a road to the West of Gilman?

Wouldn't it then be more accurate to say, that Gilman is a "Secondary highway" status road in Riverside County?

And does a "Secondary Highway" in Riverside County, mandate a 100 foot wide road easement?

That distinction may be critical, when it comes to legally determining the width of the easement (at the time of the claimed trespass/incident in late 2008).

Re: ORLY!?? STONE at it again?

Oooops!

Old news is old, sorry--mods please delete.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

That's been raised before.
Also, if the 100' easement was established before the road status changed,
it may have been retained, due to historical and continuing use.

I believe its a question for GB & co. address, and not so much innernets e-lolyers.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

The tunnels have been there for years. One tunnel is in the middle of the property and right near the main security booth. The other tunnel was built exclusvelivey for David Miscavige and his staff.

These were built after hundreds of attempts to get the road closed.

David Miscavige has directly ordered on many occasions to get the road closed, speed limit changed to a very low speed, or the traffic re-routed.

One of the reasons the Int Ranch was sold to the Soboba Indians was to be able to later use their influence to get the road re-routed.

The main traffic on Hwy 79 is people going back and forth to the Soboba casino. As far as cars crossing under the highway in the tunnels. It would seem almost comic for someone to want to drive from one side to the other and a waste at best. There is no reason for people to drive from one side to the other.

The only organization on the property that has buildings on both sides is Golden Era. First of all there are about 7 fleet vehicles for all Golden Era and most of these are trucks that only access the large Cine and Manufacturing buildings.

The dining room at the Int Base can hold several hundred people at once. When we used to hold Public Relations events and invite local valley residents to the property we would utilize HALF of the dining room. The vehicles that would show up for these events will fill every single parking space on the South side of the property, line up along all of the roads surrounding the dining room and sometimes all the way down to the exercise fields.

The main reason for staff to travel from one side to the other would be for meals and this is routinely done by walking through the tunnels. If those same staff took vehicles it would take over 100 cars to transport them and there is not parking for 100 cars on either side of the property.

If 100 cars were to transport staff from one side to the other, some people would end up walking further from their parking space than where they had originally been on the other side of the property! When I was at Gold, there were around 4-5 people out of 400 that would drive their cars to meals. Over the years, sometimes that figure was as low as zero because whenever their is a temporary ban on driving personal vehicles, that includes driving on the property. When NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DRIVE out a gate, how could you cross the property in a car?

Besides the fact that these org vehicles don't exist, there are maybe 40 personal vehicles on the entire base and many of them are not legal to drive on public roads. No insurance, gas money, registration etc. Of the ones that are owned by those who have money and are legal to drive, at least 10 of those are personally owned by David Miscavige and he usually only drives one of two of those on a regular basis and the others are all garaged or somewhere being polished. With him camped out on the Freewinds for most of the year, that rules out his cars & trucks.

This whole road issue is spin at best.

David Miscavige has ordered that the road be closed or the speed limit lowered so much as to make the road unusable. Until it is closed, Cathy Frazier or whomever holds that post will be dogged by COB's staff for compliance to the order and this will never go away.

This order has been being worked on for over 10 years. It does not matter what the city responds or what new roads get built or by whom.

Until next time...
BFG

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Priceless ^ : )

New world order religion identified.

Craptology

Re: ORLY!?? STONE at it again?

got this from California Dept of Industrial Relations website: DOSH - Public Safety Program

MINING AND TUNNELING

All underground mining and tunneling operations require certification of safety representatives and/or gas testers.
Applicable standards

Title 8, California Code of Regulations, Chapter 4, Subchapter 17, Article 4 and Subchapter 20, Article 3

Re: ORLY!?? STONE at it again?

Shit like this pisses me off the most for some reason, even though it is not the worst type of behavior the cult does. It is not the fact they are lying to the public about the real reason they want to close the road down, it's that the real reason is so fucking obvious yet they expect everyone to have the thought process of fucking idiots - because that's the only way people would fall for it.

Here is a grand idea. If you are worried about people's safety with their vehicles, add a fucking stop light. A stop light with a turn signal and one of those walk lights too. Then 200 yards down the road add a sign that says reduce speed or one indicating there is an approaching light.

Oh well, sometimes it's best not to try and understand the cult's logic because it will give you a headache. Just dismiss it as the cult being the cult then work towards ruining their plans. Maybe this plan is a good thing. I can't imagine anyone who uses the road NOT being insanely pissed off about the selfishness of the cult.

Re: ORLY!?? STONE at it again?

Old news is old, but still pisses me off.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

I was about to stow my tinfoil hat away again - but perhaps there is still some use in this. There were no responses to the question of permits (although, I suspect they have them) but, even if so, Goldfags can probably still create some annoyance for the cult, and show them sho's running things, by insisting the county should inspect and report of the tunnels given the multiple requests for road closure that Stone's assistant admits to.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

huh? Int Ranch?

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Do tell if this is old news and it is known, and they do have a secret tunnel does this work in favor of them allowing us to protest

'what harm could come of them? they are surrounded by a ten foot fence and they have there own secret tunnel to ferret people in and out WHAT MORE DO THEY NEED?'

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Sharks with frickin laser beams on their heads! ofc

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

They need us gone. They need access to the center of their base gone. Basically, they need peace and quiet so they can continue Trying to Take Over the World and abusing the human rights of their workers without scrutiny.

One Gold raid back in the Summer of Henson, a biology teacher from a local high school pulled over to talk to us. He said that a group of his students walking down the publicly owned dry riverbed west of the base had a frightening encounter with armed Gold Base security.

We haven't tried a hike up the riverbed yet. It would drive them bonkers!

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

do they do everything in-house do they even have vendors?

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Damn kids these days, don't realize how lucky they are.
If they'd tried that stunt a few hundred years earlier, LOL MASSACRE
(second para. page 233)

But seriously.

There is something evil in that soil since long, long before LRH crawled in. Something that makes people fight.



Edit:

Scottish Highland Quietude Club

Secret Tunnels under Gold Base

The Valley Chronicle > Archives > News > Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers

Re: Secret Tunnels under Gold Base

HOLY SHIT!

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

So this is like a case of inverse condemnation. The county officials are handled or paid to look the other way when the COS encroaches on the public road, and when accidents occur as a result of the COS encroachment, they argue that the road is too hazardous and should be shut down... and they go to the same public officials with that request. When the road is shut down, the COS takes their internal fences down, puts up new fences on the closed roads, and its theft is effectively completed. One generally can't claim adverse possession of public property, but there are exceptions, and in any respect, it is always effectively COS property if the roads are closed.

Theft of public property-- OUR property-- is a prime example of the LRH mindset.

Re: Gilman Springs Road be closed "for issues of safety."

'poons are needed. This story should be spread.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

All I know is, there are tunnels. Seen 'em. They go under a highway which is public property, and I would think tunnels under a heavily traveled road might be...um, I dunno...DANGEROUS?

One of the bawww complaints about Keith Henson was the fact that, while he was there, nobody could go thru the tunnels to the dining hall because they were ordered to hide, thus missing their daily dose of rice n' beans.

Of course we knew that. We thought it was funny. But he was blamed for it, when it wasn't his order directing lockdown.

If the cult uses the presence of tunnels under a busy highway as a reason why the road should close, tunnels that THEY installed, it'd be a little like a guy who killed his parents asking the court for leniency because he's an orphan.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Oh I get it. This all point to giving David Miscavige time to escape should the FBI raid the base. [tinfoil?]

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

The tunnel doesn't go anywhere useful. Just out of one half the base and into the next. Still surrounded by a fence too tall for the wee Tyrant Dwarfmidget to scuttle over.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

I meant the closure of the road. Makes them easier to spot ahead of time. Then, there might be a tunnel in that RTC building built right on the mountain flank. They have such a tunnels in their fancy house built on another mountain flank (build to protect "scriptures" we are told):

There is a convenient "ventilation building" at the end of the tunnel:
http://www.lermanet.com/image/cst-vaults-petrolia.jpg
Petrolia's New Neighbors -- L. Ron Hubbard's followers, the Church of Spiritual Technology June 1991

So why not such a tunnel in that RTC building with such a ventilation outlet at the end of it. Tom De Vocht would tell I suppose, so this is just me tinfoiling. On the other hand, what leader of nasty UFO cult engaged in slave labor doesn't prepare a safe escape plan?

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Retired engineer here. First of all you have to define "tunnel" as far as CA law is concerned. There is a big difference between a short underpass where ventilation and CO build up are not a problem and a longer structure where they would be. Next there is a difference between a structure that is built to support the weight above it and one that depends on the existing material not to be compromised by it's construction. A bridge supported overpass as opposed to a tunnel cut through existing rock or soil which may or may not need additional support. Whether the tunnels were for vehicular or just pedestrian traffic would also be an issue. These and a number of other considerations would have to be taken into account before any permit would be issued. That permits would be required is a given before you would be allowed to tamper with the foundations of any existing road or structure. I find it hard to believe that permits and inspections would not be required for any such project. If the cult was stupid enough to just build these tunnels on their own they would probably be in violation of the law, but I doubt they would be that stupid.

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

(Late reply to this thread, sorry.)

With due respect to the pansies, I'm also wondering if closing this road would make it harder for would-be escapees to get away from the prison?

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

What is the "Int Ranch"? Is this one reason why sometimes it's mentioned that Scientology has 700 acres and other times it mentions 500 acres? Was there a 200-acre "ranch" sold away? If so... location/map, please?

Allowing people to drive out the gates, wait at a light and cross the street to the other side would be risky for a cult leader -- people might actually turn right or left and BLOW!

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Of course! Duh!

It would make the "perimeter" smaller, easier to patrol/control, and harder for escapees. And an escapee would have to cross non-public lands to escape, so it would take longer for them to reach an area where they might be rescued from someone randomly passing by.

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

normally I disapprove of any use of eminent domain, however if it pushes scilon land borders back I could see wins in such an action. ESPECIALLY if the scilons have built illegally on public land already which would not be subject to replacement at public expense since it was potentially illegally erected in the first place.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

TOUR: Castile Canyon School and RPF, Happy Valley, CA -- near San Jacinto, CA - Ex Scientologist Message Board

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

To all GlofAnons: try driving your glofcart through a stop sign, and when a cop tries to wite you a ticket tell him "This is not a vehicle".

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Union pact, budget lead Riverside County supervisors' agenda

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

^^^^ new thread for possible revisit protest ordinance?

Also, can this thread die until there is something new to report?

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Why can't we ask the question about the "safety" of the road that has two underground passages?

Should there be some inspections for these tunnels? Caltrans has a bi-annual inspection program for all bridges. Anything set up for the "pedestrian" tunnels?

How much do we know about the company that built them? Where would we find copies of the permits/studies that would have preceeded this work? Seems to me, at the least, there would have been road closures during construction.

Re: The Valley Chronicle: "Tunnels under road ferry Golden Era workers"

Lol, not Smurf either.

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

I apologize if this has already been answered, but are we sure these tunnels were built by the cult or could they possibly have been golf crossings back when Gilman Hot Springs was a resort?

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Built by the cult.

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Thanks.

Re: Gilman Springs Road closure "for issues of safety."

Tunnels are a series of tubes...

I doubt their tunnels are long enough to need ventilation, they're just a little longer than the road is wide. However, they're at the base of a hill, the soil is probably sand and clay. Somehow, they managed to build their film studio on the floodplain and gave it a street address somewhere else entirely. And so it remained since the thing was built; nobody bothered to double check the physical address and compare it with the studio location. They placed their perimeter fence on public property and nobody challenged them on it. If you think they don't do what they want while sneering at wog law...of course you know they will. You live in Clearwater!