Gather up your "unfit" currency and exchange it until the payment of interest on reserves is stopped

Discussion in 'Projects' started by, Sep 16, 2013.

  1. Member

    The Federal Reserve has issued a report that starting in 2015 the organization projects that they will "lose" $125 Billion over a 5 year period. This is directly a result of the asset purchases that the Fed made to bail out the banks. The "loss" of money will be a result of paying Interest on Reserves which was only implemented as emergency measures in 2008.

    What can you do to protest this continued "bail-out" of the banks while the taxpayer loses even more money!?

    Turn in your "unfit currency". Unfit currency is the equivalent of a ripped up dollar bill that has been tapped back together. Banks take this currency in exchange for new currency and then return it to the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco for destruction. If we all organize a specific date to turn in our "unfit currency" it will significantly "gum-up" the system for the destruction and creation of new currency. This action will be coupled with very specific demands; We will stop when congress passes a law outlawing the payment of Interest on Reserves while the Federal Reserve is running a "loss". (Loss is in quotes because the Federal Reserve prints money, this is not a true loss, just additional money creation. However, the lack of $50 Billion being deposited in the Treasury every year for a 5 year period will definitely be a LOSS).

    Please pass this information along. It is a completely legal peaceful action that will force the Federal Reserve to value the taxpayers money over the interests of the banks!

    I have been working on a new Issue platform as I believe the current platforms that only work to petition or raise visibility is a waste of time. We must be smart enough to come up with our own actions to force change to happen.

    The issue and all of its details are hosted here:

    And the best part is that I want your ideas. The platform is structured to filter out the noise and have the best ideas "voted" to the top. So if you have a better idea for an action or if I miss understood the way things work that help me correct it.

    The use of an "Action" section that is separate from the "Solution" section allows those that support an issue to come up with both; "What should we do about it?" and "What do you want me to do to get this done?"

    Also, I would love some help and visibility with this idea. Please create any issues that you think the community should work on and let me know if changes can be made to make the site even better.

    Thanks everyone,
    "The cure for the common apathy!"
    • Like Like x 3
  2. Anonymous Member

    Spam reported.
  3. Anonymous Member

    gather up your unfit currency and send it to me
  4. Anonymous Member

    Yes, but whatis-theplan?
  5. Member

    Here is an article on the destruction of currency:

    "The Point" is that if the Federal Reserve is not going to value taxpayers over the interests of the banks then we are going to flood their operations with un-fit / mutilated currency, this will bog down their operations with taking the mutilated currency out of the system and they will have to waste even more money printing new $1 bills.

    Let me be very clear. It is illegal to destroy or mutilate currency! However if you should happen to come across a ripped up $1 bill that has been heavily tapped back together; save it. Heavily tapped together $1's do not easily pass through the BPS 3000 ("Banknote processing system 3000," manufactured by German firm Giesecke & Devrient.) This will make operations a mess. But we must coordinate the return of mutilated currency.

    Also, there is a purpose to this action. The Federal Reserve should not be paying Interest on Reserves to banks (including the largest international banks) resulting in losses of approximately $40 Billion a year while congress is currency de-funding food stamp programs to the exactly same amount.
  6. Anonymous Member

    There. That's the basic thought. The Fed is a bank cartel which can be stopped with a word from Congress. The US has gotten rid of two national banks already. We can do it a third time. Maybe the third time will be a charm.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Anonymous Member

    How is this for a point:

    Fuck off faggot. NYPA. Also: Find a nice fire to die in.

    Also: LOLing at such a retarded idea. Rip up and tape up dollars? Really? WTF are you smoking, newfag?
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Member

    However, it is important to be specific and understand the intricacies of monetary policy to have any effect. This is a specific action related to the payment of interest on reserves, if this devolves into an argument about the relevance of the Federal Reserve it will be written off by the general public. But if it is seen as a specific action related to a specific demand to not pay interest on reserves while the Fed is losing money it will have greater effect as it will prove that we collectively understand where the problems are, and not general broad stroke statements.

    This was specifically why we created

    No offense, but if this was posted as a comment under the Problem section for the issue I would personally "down-vote" because I don't think it advances the conversation / issue to an actionable goal. Taking down the Federal Reserve, while maybe an admirable goal, is unachievable by trying to eat the whole thing in one bite. But the small victory of stopping the payment of interest on reserves is a start that could eventually get to that goal if it is truly the right thing to do.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Anonymous Member

    The more you talk, the more convinced I am that you are a moonbat.

    Your idea won't work. Period. If you sincerely think that doing what you are implying would work, you are both retarded and naive. In today's day and age most of how the Fed Reserve does things is via electronic transfer.

    So tear all the cash you want up. Roll it up and smoke it as far as they are concerned. Won't mean shit to them.

    Oh and lets just overlook the fact all you will do is punish and inconvenience people who have fucking zip to do with all these injustices.

    And blow over the fact that a lot of WWPers don't live in the United Shits of Ameri-dumb. So don't expect their help as they are too busy laughing ath Ameri-cunt.
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Let me see if I can explain some of the problems of this idea in a completely honest, non-abrasive manner.

    First: Read this piece by the Santa Barbra Independent. It does a decent job explaining a major obstacle in this idea. Basically: Your target (the Fed Reserve) can literally print money or make money appear without having any paper money in hand. So, the worst that will happen if you got enough people to do this is you overwhelm the money destroyers but do little, if any, harm to the banks, Fed Reserve, or the Feds in general.

    That is, of course, they don't throw you in the hoose gal for orchestrating a crime. Destroying money is a crime and they may not appreciate the "but I taped it back together!" defense especially if it overwhelms one of their branches. Before you say "But...I saved bad cash and..." they may not see it that way. Keep in mind these are the same fellows that got their jimmies rustled and butthurt over a nerd blabbing about their super secret spai program that involved everybody, their mothers, and their neighbor's cat.

    In addition, I don't remember precisely, but wasn't this idea already brought up before and shot down in a glorious ball of flames? I am not sure and not really all that desperate to find out or lurk for the answer.

    This idea that doing over time is also just as ineffective. Keep in mind again: The Fed Reserve doesn't have to have paper money and prints it by the ream daily. So unless you can get the entire US populace behind this and burn, say $10, the fact remains that a small number of people doing it would be offset daily and thus gain nothing. That and the fact people aren't exactly keen on working hard and getting some cash for their labor only to turn around and destroy it for no good reason other than to protest.

    So while your idea isn't a realistic solution, there are other ways that might be more realistic and viable. If Adhocrat was here, I'm sure they would have some good solutions for you.
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Member

    Man, I hate to break Rule 14 but it might be helpful to spell things out in greater detail, and maybe even use it as an opportunity to get some good feedback from those that might take more than 15 seconds to evaluate the action.

    1. The money should be returned at the largest 19 banks that were bailed-out and helped precipitate the crisis by poor risk management. All banks are legally required to take legal tender (anything that has at least 50% of the bill and has the majority of the 4 corners) and exchange for new currency. The lines outside of JP Morgan, Citigroup, and Bank of America would help to drive home the point that the should not be supporting the payment of interest on reserves. Thanks to both rant posts for forcing me to have to explain this, it helped to focus the action better :)

    2. The majority of U.S currency is horded oversees. WWPers do not have to live in the US to execute this action, they can exchange $'s for new ones at any bank that does international currency exchange. I feel like this is a really easy thing to explain, so If you could give me any feedback on the payment of interest on reserves or the correct size of the Fed's $4 Trillion balance sheet that might be a better questions to answer. Here I will give you some starting reading material, but it is more than 2 pages so that might be asking to much. :( Best part of this report (for those that are interested in learning) is that it is the Federal Reserve System itself who wanted to publish a report letting everyone know that they screwed up growing their balance sheet so large and they will be losing money starting in 2015!

    3. Yes, the Federal Reserve does do the majority of things through electronic transfer. What was your point, with that? The point of the manipulated currency is that it throws a monkey wrench in their operations so that the demands can be heard. Another option would be to hack into the Federal Reserve payments network and take that down, which I am going to assume is what you meant by that statement. I would love to hear your idea on creating a disruption in Federal Reserve system. Seriously, any ideas are appreciated.

    4. Not sure who the innocents are that are going to be punished and inconvenience. The least paid cash operators that filter and destroy currency for the Federal Reserve System have to do their job anyways, and believe me, they love overtime. The are actually kind of upset that they have been having their numbers and wages reduced. But if there is someone specific I have left out, again, let me know. Seriously, I'll wait........................
  12. Random guy Member

    An outside perspective:

    The US debt problem and the corresponding inflation is a result of overspending going back decades. It is a large and persistent problem that won't go away easily. There is no "magic bullet" solution, no "torn bills" or gold standard or starting a war is going to fix this overnight. The US spent their way into it, and will have to work their way out of it, just like any other entity in the same situation. It is probably going to suck a lot, but it is how it is.
  13. Member

    Thanks for the honest post. In regards to being thrown in jail, that could be a possibility given the butthurt they are capable of.

    I guess the main defenses are that it is important to never post that anyone should do anything to mutilate currency and the second more important part is that this is tied to a specific request. As soon as anyone starts asking what this point of this is, even if it isn't enough to overwhelm the system, we point out the payment of interest on reserves and the demand that it be stopped.

    The knowledge is the real power. Not a lot of people understand this, but I have done my best listing my sources and trying to explain it as simply as possible at also, I have started working on the solution, so this isn't asking someone in power to fix it for me, we have done the solution work ourselves as well.

    One big miss in your post which I think it is helpful to point out. Nobody is losing their hard earned cash. The currency is not destroyed. Mutilated currency that will not pass through the very expensive counting machines are exchanged at banks for new fresh dollar bills. I was a teller in a previous life and we were required to take mutilated currency and give new ones back as long as the bill had 50% and contained the 4 corners of the bill. (Not sure what the new requirements are, but hopefully you get my point).

    Again, I appreciate the constructive criticism, there probably are flaws in the plan but hopefully nothing that couldn't be revised to still be a good project!
  14. Member


    The action wasn't to fix the US debt problem, inflation, or fractional reserve banking. It was a very specific response to:

    I got the opportunity to ask Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco President John C. Williams about the problem as he was giving a speech on the issue. I got him to confirm that the losses were going to specifically a result of the payment of interest on reserves. I pointed out that I understood that the Federal Reserve has to manage reserve levels in order to conduct monetary policy. However, I pointed out that this can be done by issuing "Reserve Requirements" to the banks in the same way that has been done for the 80 years before 2008.

    The reason Interest on Reserves was created in 2008 is because the banks were butthurt over the fact that the their money sitting with the Federal Reserve was not earning any interest and felt that this was an implicit tax against them.

    President Williams AGREED that it would still be possible to control monetary policy with "Reserve Requirements" but that Congress and the Banks would never go for it, and the losses didn't matter given the ability to print money! Seriously, the person that is supposed to be a servant of the taxpayers dollars was more concerned that the banks "wouldn't go for it" than continuing to put on average of $50 Billion a year into the Treasury coffers (read as: Your tax dollars). This is what needs to be talked about and published. The big arguments, while fun to spout off about, are not getting us anywhere. The specific chink in the armor is vulnerable, and the best part is that they know their wrong!

    I understand this is complicated but that is where the power lies. We must take the time to truly understand how everything works if we have any hope of actually fixing it. Yes, Fractional Reserve banking, inflation, U.S. debt loads are big issues, but they can also be false flags that are so obscure and vague that they confuse and obfuscate the public. This is specific. Tell me what you think about Interest on Reserves.
  15. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Your welcome and while I have some doubts as to the likelihood such actions would get you thrown in jail, the possibility is always there. Especially if you consider the US Gov as of late.

    One of the issues I forgot to touch on: The fed and most banks now at days use electronic transfers. So while it has all the same value as real money, the "money" only exists as a few digits on a computer system. What would be a way to deal with that in a completely legal manner? (Emphasis on the "legal manner" bit)

    I am sure there are ways you can get knowledge out about how it all works and ways to fix it. I just have doubts giving a bank money that is wrecked beyond all repair would be an effective way to do it.

    Best advice I can give is to start small: Tell people what you know with information they can find. That way they can see how you came to your conclusions. Be receptive of their criticisms. Understand that people aren't going to be convinced overnight and might resist at first. Also: don't be afraid to learn. I am sure other members here might engaged you on economics, however that isn't my strong suit. So I'm a bit lacking as to how best to help you.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Got dox?
  17. Member

    Sorry, don't have anything official as it was a one-on-one after a meeting but basically the Federal Reserve of San Francisco has published the sentiment.

    Glenn D. Rudebush is director of Economic Research and President John Williams direct report:

    "The Fed’s recent securities purchases appear likely to register financial gains, though these are at risk if interest rates rise. However, as then-professor Ben Bernanke (2000) wrote: For a central bank “to allow consideration of possible capital losses to block needed policy actions is misguided.” That is, interest rate risk should be a secondary consideration, subordinate to the macroeconomic goals of monetary policy."


    What he is saying is that it is okay for the Federal Reserve to lose money in the interest of monetary policy (read: "bailout"). The rub is that there is no need to lose the money due to interest rate risk, all that has to be done is to not pay interest on reserves and go back to reserve requirements. This will be a hole that could simply be plugged by the organizations that created the crisis. But people have to understand it.

    This was published in 2011, and quoted this,
    "To make financial conditions more supportive of economic growth, the Federal Reserve has purchased large amounts of longer-term securities in recent years. The Fed’s resulting securities portfolio has generated substantial income but may incur financial losses when market interest rates rise. Such interest rate risk appears modest, especially relative to the Fed’s policy objectives of full employment and price stability."

    Less than 2 years later the Board of Governors report has basically said that he has completely misstated what the risk was and it is much more likely that they will lose a lot of money.
  18. JohnnyRUClear Member

    "taped" (not "tapped")

    "hoosegow" (not "hoose gal")

    "nowadays" (not "now at days")

    IMO, monetary policy is illegitimate per se. I am an unrepentant anti-statist, though, so don't mind me.

    Carry on....
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Thanks for clarifying how to spell hoosegow. My initial wording was going to be "Pound Me Hard In the Ass Prison" but thought that to be too distracting/abrasive.

    IMO I agree with the general spirit, but not the methods, of the OP. My only issue is that even if people managed to get going on this, the Fed Reserve can just "magically" replace the money. That and money has no intrinsic value in and of itself. Dollar bills could be Monopoly money as far as the FR is concerned. It's the value of what it represents that makes it worth something.

    So, IMO destroying or overwhelming a facility who's only thing in this world is to destroy said paper/cloth/whatever it is made of will have marginal to no effect on the people responsible for the economic messes and debt.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anonymous Member

    I read an article recently. Some guy was wondering how a ten pound note could store ten pounds of value. He came to the conclusion that money is trust

    He never once looked up the origin of the term pound. If he had he would have learned that a pound used to mean a pound of sterling silver. Likewise, a dollar used to be defined as 371.25 grains of silver.

    Used to be.

    So now that trust has been shattered, the pound and dollar have lost most of the value they used to store, because the relationship between the pound and what is represents has been broken. Now, the pound, or dollar, represent trust. It used to represent a commodity, an actual useful item.
    • Like Like x 2
  21. Member

    Okay so I think that when you say you agree with the general spirit that means you support "Ending the payment of interest on reserves". Because what I really want is people to read the report understand what it means and support forcing the Fed to return to using Reserve Requirements to control the monetary supply instead of paying out billions to the banks while they lose money on the assets they purchased to backstop the economy.

    And please if anyone here understands economics, monetary policy, etc.., if you have a real roadblock or unintended consequence to using Reserve Requirements please let me know cause I am open to rethinking the solution.

    As to the action, yes the FED can magically replace the money. That is what they do, but not the point of the action. A heavily taped together dollar bill does not pass through the sorting machines and will back up operations as they are forced to count the money by hand before destroying. The lowest paid Federal Reserve employees will receive overtime pay which they appreciate as their ranks are slowly being downsized. The Federal Reserve Bank presidents and those in power will have to address the demands (using Reserve Requirements instead of Interest on Reserves).

    Also, this is a display. I am updating the Action section at to organize a demonstration at Justin Herman Plaza in San Francisco Saturday Oct. 5 . Those that support will come with mutilate currency. We will walk down Market street and stop at BoA, Wells Fargo, and Chase to return our money for new bills. The action will be directly coordinated with the demand to end Interest on Reserves. These banks that are receiving the billions in benefit because of Interest on Reserves will have lines out their doors with those returning mutilated currency until they support the solution proposed. Or they will block customers, either way it will point the discussion to the losses due to Interest on Reserves.

    Now, I understand if you don't think it is the best action in the world. However, I think it is more productive and actionable then an encampment. That is not putting down those that braved the elements, just a push for a more calculating thought out action. So, I also present it to the group if there is a better idea in the "actionable" arena that LEGALLY disrupts operations.

    Twitter and Facebook buttons are included with the issue if you wish to share:
  22. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    What I meant by "agree with the general spirit" is that I agree that the FR shouldn't bail out banks if they go under or continue with their nonsense.

    However, my view is that the problems with the FR is not the cause, but a symptom of a much bigger issue.

    I don't have to tell you how dysfunctional the US Gov is right now. All you got to do is turn on the news and behold the whole "Republican vs Democrat" issue. The fact remains that as long as this dysfunction continues, then the FR will continue with it's deal.
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Anonymous Member

    this 'dysfunction' is part of the system. It is a dog and pony show for you and me, nothing more, like the whole debt ceiling.

    It's all political theater.

    As for the FR, theat is the base on which the rest of the show is based, Without the Federal Reserve the government would have to live within its budget like the rest of us. Not living within your budget is a sign that you are wasting resources and that you should stop NOW. Instead, the USG simply rolls over the debt and hope Judgement Day doesn't come while they are in office.
    • Like Like x 2

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