FSM'ing vs. Rates Relief

Discussion in 'Scientology Property Tax' started by RolandRB, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. RolandRB Member

    I am going to try a new tactic regarding this property tax relief aka "rates relief" to people in the UK. That is to use FSM'ing as a counter argument. In other words to say that if individual members are enriching themselves at the rate of 10% of "fixed donations" for getting people onto auditing and 15% of "fixed donations" for getting people onto training then this is not acting as a charity and therefore they are not entitled to "mandatory" rates relief nor "discretionary" rates relief since the activitiy can not be "non-profit" since some members are enriching themselves through these activities.

    I need to put a pack together and once I have all I need then I will write to local authorities myself and make my case and then demand that they remove this rates relief.

    I see plenty of examples of people earning money to quote but WHAT I AM LACKING is the HCOPLs that link in FSM'ing to the running of the Church and all the details about what payments will be given.

    Do they still have this system in the UK? I mean, I know they do, but do they actually get money sent to them or is it merely credited towards their auditing and they can't take it in cash - again, as applied to the UK?

    So somebody out there please work on the references that tie in FSM'ing with the functioning of the Church. I smell a possible breakthrough here at long last. :)

    (I also need "Auditing as a Career" among these documents)

    let's make a start:
  2. and here I thought FSM stood for Flying Spaghetti Monster
  3. AnonLover Member

    Roland i think this is a good idea, i've used the FSM practice quite successfully in several conversations with uninformed people who like to remain uninformed about scilons yet argue "so what - it's a church. people are free to worship whatever they want. why should i care?"

    It does indeed paint a whole different picture when you can show hard selling snake-oil quackery + FSM sales commissions + they call it their religion = WTF?????
  4. DeathHamster Member

    Suffering from TLA overload?
  5. DeathHamster Member

    I've found stuff on FSMs, but nothing yet on the policies establishing/governing them. Exes who were in admin positions dealing with FSMs or FSMs themselves might be the best bet to know where to look.
  6. deirdre Member

    I used to be Treasury staff, so I know a fair amount about FSM policies as of when I was on staff, which was 1978-79 and 1984-1989.

    * Person would pay for courses or auditing
    * Person would start one of the services they'd pay for
    * Treasury would cut a check to the FSM for all the services their person paid for, not just the one they started. That'd be 10% for auditing and 15% for training. At the time, there were no commissions for IAS that I can recall and of course no ideal orgs. The checks were ordered to be cut immediately; in practice it was typically within a day or two but if someone were waiting it'd be faster. The FSM I/C's statistics were based in part on FSM commissions paid, so it was a priority to cut the checks.

    My recollection is that the policies were mostly in OEC volumes 3 (Treasury) and 6 (Public Division, which is where the FSM I/C position is on the org board).
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Anonymous Member

    • Like Like x 1
  8. RolandRB Member

    Where can I download OEC Volume 3 (1991 release)? I don't want the 1976 version.

    OK, found it by searching

    OEC Vol 3 1991

    Search on FSM using the full PDF search tool

    Say OSA - I think you can kiss your property tax relief in the UK a sweet goodbye now. :)
  9. RolandRB Member

    I got the tie-in I needed linking the function of FSMs with the running of the Church. It comes from page OEC Vol 6 (1991) page 619/921 of the PDF numbering (page 637 of the print):

    Issue I

    ......and this is the bit I needed and it is stated so perfectly:


    The expansion of Scientology depends in no small measure upon the industry
    and effectiveness of field staff members. Following the policies laid down
    here, the efforts of FSMs can be streamlined and standardized so that they can
    better achieve their purpose: The contacting, handling, salvaging and bringing to
    understanding of individuals and thus the peoples of Earth.

    • Like Like x 1
  10. RolandRB Member

    And we know that FSM'ing still goes on because it is taught at the London Org as of 2009.

    ......and from the above link we know they get paid as well.

    Sheila Bulger is running an FSM rally on Tuesday evenings at 6.15pm. Sheila has been a successful FSM for the past 20 years in the UK and makes her living from FSM. So if you want drilling from an expert, please come along.
  11. RolandRB Member

    And we know some people make money doing FSM'ing. Somebody remind my again - this is a charity in the UK, right (or at least 4 local authorities think so CoLCorp, CoW, Birm, Sund)?
    Yes, these are FSM commissions, as reported by the Church of Scientology to the IRS in 1992:

    You might want to also look at this page:

    Click "Expand all", and search for "FSM" or "commissions" on the page
    with your browser's search feature, there are more official statements
    from the Church on these topics.

    On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 13:31 +0000, Roland Rashleigh-Berry wrote:
    > Hi Xxxxxx,
    > I'm still working hard on this rates relief thing. Now I am looking at
    > FSM Commission. Is that what I am seeing in the following link? Are
    > these figures what they got paid in FSM Commission? Where did these
    > figures come from?
    > Roland
  12. DeathHamster Member

  13. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Nice. Would namefagging top FSMs be useful, e.g. in the UK ? Is it possible, e.g. using the magazines ?
  14. RolandRB Member

    The two top FSMs in the UK are Sheila Bulger and Pavane Fraser. It has been that way for more than 15 years.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. CarltonBANKS Member

    Sheila Bulger:


    Thanks to Gaston Hidalgo for making that photo available to us!

    About Sheila:

    Sheila is a go getter FSM. She does this full time. She tends to stick around the Flag Service Consultant Offices and work on "flag public" which means she goes after the easy money. It's too hard for her to do the real work of developing prospects and routing them into the orgs. She tends to stick on those who are already Scnists. She used to be a higher up in the sea org, believe it or not.

    She was born on January 17, 1951

  16. RolandRB Member

    For an organisation to be non-profit then is it not the case that the profits must not be distributed amongst the members but instead used for the furtherance of the organisation? But these FSMs get money into the Orgs which is profit and they get their cut of it so is this not distributing profits to members?

    My thoughts are crystallizing on this now.

    I think the "unit pay scheme" for Org staff is OK whereby they are effectively getting a commission. Even on a commission basis this would not be distributing profits or if it is, other charities do it with street collectors. So I am happy with Org staff being paid in this way as it is just a payment scheme and a charity overhead.

    And as for Org staff not getting minimum wage then I think that is OK because they have decided they work for a charity and not for money so if they get less then that is there problem. That is so long as they were able to make a free and informed choice so I'd discount any second/third generation Scientologist.

    But I don't like the FSM system. If FSM payments are split across staff then I don't have a problem with it. But if they get it direct for pushing a person into progressing in a religion then to me they are doing it for profit and so the whole religion has this for-profit aspect to it so it can not be charitable or non-profit to my way of thinking.
  17. DeathHamster Member

    Are charities allowed to farm out their fund raising? (Not that CoS is one.) In Canada, there were companies that hunted down charities that were registered but basically dormant, and then did telephone soliciting for them -- and kept 90% of the money raised! The government cracked down on some of them, and put caps on the percentage, but still allows third-party fund raising. (Charities and politicians are except from the Do Not Call list...)
  18. RolandRB Member

    Yes they are and I think they do it a lot in the US. Nothing illegal about it.

    What bugs me about IAS and Ideal Org fundraising where the FSM doing it keeps 10% is that (s)he is a member and so (s)he is getting a share of the profit. If is were a non-member doing the fundraising and they got their whack from it then I don't see a problem.
  19. DeathHamster Member

    They used to have pages promoting their Multi-Level Marketing program for TWTH booklets. The page is gone, not sure about the program. (Wayback is a little flakey retrieving it sometimes.)
    A previous version of the page:
  20. deirdre Member

    Oh, please don't say this. It really isn't okay, and the CofS doesn't meet the UK Charity guidelines.

    My average pay ranged from $70 a week when I worked at a msision and $110-150 when I worked at an org, and I worked at one of the largest and most successful missions and orgs during its heyday. People were bullied into accepting it as okay, threatened with heavy ethics and expulsion if they didn't think it was okay. People were promised better wages than they got, then were manipulated into staying despite that. I was told I'd get at least minimum wage. While I did, very rarely, make that much, the statements I heard about staff pay were outright lies and used to bring in gullible people to be on staff and lie to keep them there.

    The single thing I regret the most, out of all the things I did that weren't okay when I was in Scn, was buy into the pay system and, eventually, become the person who did the payroll. I was a perpetrator in this system and it corrupted me and my spirit. Things snowballed from that point.
  21. RolandRB Member

    OK, I see what you mean. I haven't got a lot of sympathy for people in this situation (Chuck has made this point before) and what my aim is is to fuck them over for the Introspection Rundown they were going to kill me with (at my expense). When you were doing this job it was clear that you knew the stuff in OEC vol 3 1991 (or earlier version) relating to staff pay and that if all went well and you were hatted blah blah then the rubes would flock in and you would get decent money but it never transpired. I don't feel sorry for you. I want to fuck them over to get revenge so I have a different slant as follows:

    My slant is that there is monetary gain to be had by working for this organisation but poor people can not afford to work there and try their luck (because of the lack of the minimum wage to maintain them until better times arrive) so this is an employment issue whereby rich bastards (that's you) have enough to get by on to work there for months or years, waiting for the good times to arrive, but poor people, who would desperately like to do the same, can not because of the lack of minimum wage to maintain them until the good times arrive. So I would argue that minimum wage should be in place so that poor people could have the same chance to work there and earn big money in the future the same as rich people (you).

    I know you are not going to like that approach but I don't care that you put yourself in that stupid situation hoping for future reward. My aim is to fuck them over by imposing NMW on them because if I can do it then they are truly, completely fucked and I have my revenge.
  22. deirdre Member

    Roland, to be clear, I'm not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me. I feel ashamed that I was a part of the toxic atmosphere. It's something I did that I'm not proud of, and we all have our various things like that, some worse than others. Mine? It affected about a thousand people over the years.

    I would also argue that minimum wage needs to be in effect, so we're in agreement. I was only "rich" insofar as I had another job. I was quite horrified at some of the conditions some staff lived under, and they had it way better than Sea Org members. I was never willing to cut my outside ties, which served me well long-term.
  23. CarltonBANKS Member

    It looks as though Sheila Bulger's family or partner have been writing 5-star reviews for Dianetics. Just, FYI.
  24. DeathHamster Member

    It looks like any VM can be a FSM if they want to.

    affiliate.scientology dot net
    Ancient FSM blog post that pointed here:
    scientologyfsm.wordpress dot com/2008/05/18/blog-about-your-wins-getting-through-the-basics/
    • Like Like x 1
  25. RolandRB Member

    Perfect, thanks. That undermines the so-called "good works" they do. It can now be interpreted as just a way of reaching the public to generate new members to make money.

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