French trial: the media

Discussion in 'Media' started by Olrik, May 25, 2009.

  1. Olrik Member

    Re: French Prosecutor Want Scientology Dissolved.

    In theory, you're right. The facts often show that we have major interferences tho, especially with our latest mini leader.
    Lrn2ReadCanardEnchaine ;)
  2. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    WTF do the frogs know about Picard?? He wasn't even in 2001! He's from Star Trek.

  3. Olrik Member

    Re: French trial: the media


  4. N. Ron Rubber Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    This news is full of win.

  5. Trev6 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

  6. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Heheheh... amidoinitrite? ^^
  7. mnql1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    "Frapper la Scientologie au porte-monnaie est la seule méthode efficace"

    Brief interview with Catherine Picard, who co-sponsored the About-Picard (pronounced "abu-picar") law in 2001 with Nicolas About.

    Quick translation:

    "Hitting Scientology in the pocketbook is the only effective approach"

    by François Koch, June 16, 2009 11:12 - updated 11:33 (Paris time)

    Former Socialist Party Member of the National Assembly Catherine Picard, president of the National Union of Associations for the Defense of Families and the Individual (UNADFI), reacts to the prosecutor's request for the dissolution of the Church of Scientology and for four million euros in fines.

    Were you surprised when you heard the summation of the two substitute prosecutors Monday afternoon?

    No, even if tried not to believe it. This will of the State is a good thing, it protects MIVILUDES [Interministerial Mission of Vigilance and Combat against Sectarian Aberrations] and should be a positive element for the other ongoing trials in Europe and the United States. The work of the two prosecutors has been remarkable. They effectively emphasized the fact that Scientology is the French subsidiary of the American parent. Their very pertinent analysis of the the sect's finances supports their demonstration of its crimes.

    Do you regret that your law concerning the abuse of weakness and dissolution was not used?

    Not at all. Only the result counts: the request for the dissolution of Scientology. The charges concern fraud, while my law deals with the abuse of weakness. By asking for four million euros in fines, the prosecutors chose the only effective method: to hit Scientology in the pocketbook, even though Scientology has an enormous one: 37 million euros in cash and 100 million net.

    What do you expect from the court's decision?

    Aside from the dissolution, I hope that the charge of illegal practice of pharmacy will lead to a conviction. Cults always infiltrate the health sector: there are many guru healers who are terribly dangerous when they give their followers snake oil to treat cancer.
  8. Re: French trial: the media

    I too would hope for this, more awareness needs to be spread about the dangers of their "medical" practices and those responsible for endangering members' health and wellbeing must be punished.

    Keep up the good work, France.
  9. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Said Ann, twice, in duplicate posts with 17 minutes between them?
  11. Anon1720 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Viva la France!

    Tonight I will make Coq au Vin in solidarity...and caek!
  12. Re: French trial: the media

    Where did these numbers come from?
  13. peterstorm Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Queen vs Church of scientology of Toronto

  14. peterstorm Member

  15. mnql1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Scientologie: «Un procès digne de l'Inquisition» - Libération

    Quick translation:

    Scientology: "A trial worthy of the Inquisition"

    June 16, 2009 18:45 (Paris time) Source: AFP

    On Tuesday, the lawyers for the Paris Scientologists on trial for organized fraud criticized the "extremely serious" penalties requested by the prosecution.

    On Tuesday, the lawyers for the Paris Scientologists on trial for organized fraud criticized the "symbolic trial" worthy of "the Inquisition" which was brought against their association and condemned the "death penalty" requested by the public prosecutor.

    On Monday, the prosecution caused surprise by requesting the dissolution of the two main French entities of the Church of Scientology (ASES-CC and SEL), three years after requesting the dismissal of the case.

    "It's the Inquisition. It's Torquemada (the Grand Inquisitor) and our clients are being demonized! And they say it's not religion that is on trial?" Alex Gublin, lawyer for "bookseller" Didier Michaux, said with indignation on Tuesday.

    "It's a symbolic trial, but not a practical trial," declared lawyer Yann Streiff, who is defending the former director general of the Celebrity Center, Sabine Jacquart.

    "This is a travesty and yet there is no reaction from anyone," he said to the magistrates of the 12th Chamber. "The prime concern is to get a conviction," he lamented, saying that the Church of Scientology was a "scapegoat".

    "This is not an issue for the courts"

    "They are already guilty because they are Scientologists and because Scientologists are supposed to be taught to lie," complained lawyer Aurélie Cerceau, who defends the official responsible for purification treatments, Aline Fabre.

    Above all, the defense argued, it is not for the courts to decide in a religious matter.

    For lawyer Streiff, the court "cannot intrude in an act of faith" and condemn Scientologists because, according to French jurisprudence, Scientology is indeed a religion, he insisted, before citing a supporting decision rendered by the Paris Court of Appeal in 1980.

    "This is an issue which belongs not to the courts" but "to the government or to legislators," argued the lawyer for Jean-François Valli, Virginia Benmayor.

    "If the executive branch wants to ban Scientology, let it do so. If it wants to ban books by Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology), let it do so, but no one should ask you to make a political decision," added her fellow lawyer Gublin.

    "There are beliefs we may or may not accept"

    After expressing indignation against "the extremely serious penalty" requested against his client (a three-year suspended sentence), Benmayor insisted that Scientologist Valli's convictions are "real" and "profound".

    In Scientology, "there are beliefs we may or may not accept, but nothing reprehensible is happening," she concluded.

    The lawyers also reminded the tribunal that as far as "fraud" is concerned, it only heard testimony about the "personality tests" used by Scientology, but in no instance about the "electrometers" or "success letters" excoriated on Monday by prosecutors.

    "This is outside the scope of the case" before the court," said lawyer Gublin. "These are background elements," he warned, "but you cannot use them to decide whether there has been a criminal offense."

    The closing arguments of the defense are due to end on Wednesday and the decision will be under deliberation for several weeks.
  16. auchraw Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    I don't see what the champagne and cake are for. Nothing has yet been decided.

    A fine of 4 million euros is not going to worry the Secte. If they have 10,000 members in France, as they claim, and if every one has spent/donated/been cheated out of 20,000 euros this is already 200 million euros. If they have only 4,000 members they have still taken 40 million euros. A fine would need to be in the billions before it would cause serious problems for them.
  17. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    You are right. But remember the > 9000 cuts.
  18. Herro Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    What? How the hell did they get off easy? The prosecution is calling for the french church of scientology to be dissolved. That's kind of a huge deal you know.
  19. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Ann your doppleganger is duping your posts..perhaps some auditing could clear that up
  21. TypingChimp Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    For the first, I guess it's because THEY TASTE GOOD!!! For the second, I second the response: 9000 cuts. If the Co$ is its own world, it looks a bit like this now.

  22. Mitsu Too Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Long read but worth it. Thanks to those who provided the updates. Would have love to see live footage but the summaries were quite descriptive and entertaining. This could become a huge win. Take away one part of the foundation and the house can quickly crumble. <cue appropriate footage here>. Can anyone say "tipping point"?
  23. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Lurk moar: two entities might be banned, not all of them. The dammage is more moral than real (but good to have though).
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Hmm no. You lurk moar.

    La secte scientologue cherche à échapper à la mort civile | 24 heures

  25. moarxenu Member

    Re: French trial: the media


    Anti-sects group UNADFI president Catherine Picard waits outside Paris court, May 25, 2009 to attend The Church of Scientology French branch trial on charges of organised fraud in a case that could lead to the group being dissolved in France. Registered as a religion in the United States, with celebrity members such as actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Scientology enjoys no such legal protection in France and has faced repeated accusations of being a money-making cult.

    - Reuters
  26. Ann O'Nymous Member

  27. xenubarb Member

    Re: French trial: the media

  28. DeathHamster Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Pfffft! Learn to research.

    R. v. Church of Scientology of Toronto, the 1996 appeal decision which says nothing about their status or loss of it in Ontario.
    CanLII - 1996 CanLII 1650 (ON C.A.)

    The bulletin that I spent a lot of time hunting down:
    Becoming a recognized religious domination in Ontario
    Now... show dox that Scientology actually has any religious status anywhere else in Canada, or are you just parroting something you heard from somewhere, or perhaps oldnews from before their charity application was rejected?

    Gregg Hagglund, who torpedoed their charity application, says that no longer has any religious status (with the possible exception of Quebec) in Canada. I'm inclined to trust Gregg, but trust doesn't count without dox.

    So where are yours?
  29. Anonymous Member

  30. mnql1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    La secte scientologue cherche à échapper à la mort civile | 24 heures

    Quick translation of an article in French on a Swiss website:

    Scientology sect trying to escape civil death

    FRANCE | Prosecution calls for dissolution. Scientology lawyers condemn "a political decision".

    Jean-Noël Cuénod | Paris | June 17, 2009 | 00:02 (Swiss time)

    Will Scientology in France survive the trial which ends today in Paris? The two substitute prosecutors have requested the dissolution - as a legal entity - of the Spiritual Association of the Church of Scientology and its bookstore, the SEL. These are the two main entities of the sect in France.

    Liquidation or dissolution?

    In addition, the prosecution asked the three judges of the 12th Correctional Chamber to return a guilty verdict against seven French Scientology officials who are accused of organized fraud. All the requested sentences are suspended, but in certain cases the prosecutors requested a deprivation of civil rights.

    In previous editions, we discussed the possible liquidation of the sect if it were convicted as a legal entity. The prosecution went even further by calling for dissolution. The distinction between liquidation and dissolution is more than academic.

    Liquidation is ordered by a commercial court and does not necessarily prevent revival in other forms. Dissolution, however, entails the civil death of the affected business, party, or sect. Reviving a dissolved entity is a criminal offense. French law severely sanctions the "reconstitution of a dissolved association": the maximum penalty is three years imprisonment and 45,000 euros (over 67,000 Swiss francs).

    This provision dates back to the Popular Front government in 1936 and its purpose was to ban far-right leagues. It was also used by General de Gaulle in May 1968 to ban far-left groups!

    This explains the anxiety of the many Scientology lawyers who roamed the corridors of the Palais de Justice in Paris yesterday afternoon, issuing numerous comments accompanied by impressive movements of their black moiré sleeves.

    An abrupt change of course

    The principal defender of the sect, Patrick Maisonneuve, shared his indignation with us. "The public prosecutor's office initially decided to dismiss this case because of its weakness. It was the Court of Appeal that decided to hold this trial. What we are witnessing is a complete reversal on the part of the prosecution. A case that was groundless is now supposed to end with a civil death sentence! Since the prosecution is connected with the government, it's obvious that this change of course is political. The authorities in power are presently trying to curry favor with anti-sectarian organizations."

    The lawyers defending Scientology will continue until this evening to try to win acquittals that would permit the survival of the sect. To learn the outcome of this case, they will have to be patient: the verdict of the 12th Correctional Chamber will only be delivered this autumn.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    I love how they called it a sect.
  32. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Who is right ? AFP or 24 heures ?
  33. Re: French trial: the media

    I had to look up what a suspended sentence was. So I figured others may also be wondering. According to Wikipedia:

  34. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Sounds kinky. ~.^
  35. Olrik Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    AINAFL, but i'd say that justice can only 'dissolve' the very precise organisation(s) being on trial.
    It means that scilons could create the same kind of organisation under a different name... The judge cannot dissolve 'Scientology' as such because it simply doesn't exist. We already know there are myriads of orgs, fronts, etc.

    On the other hand, scilons cannot / won't do it before the case is completely settled, most likely up to the European court of human rights. They'll go up to there for PR purpose, and because they DEPEND on the 'religious' stuff. Without it, they're just a bunch a crazy people using BS psychology, etc.

    This is a PR war. Anonymous is also good at it.
  36. peterstorm Member

    Re: French trial: the media


    Well, THEY say so. If you sometimes believe what they write.

    «The Assessment Appeal Board, province of British Columbia, ruled in 1990: "The Church of Scientology is a religious organization."

    On December 21, 1993, the Inspector General of Financial Institutions for the government of Quebec recognized the Church of Scientology of Montreal and the Church of Scientology of Quebec City as religious corporations.»

    The Bona Fides of the Scientology Religion

    But hey, that has been a subject of debate since the beginning of chanology. Quebecfags have done their homework.

    Are scilon leaks enough for you?

    Find somebody else to translate for you.

    Sorry for derailed thread mods.
  37. Olrik Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Yes please. This is France here. ;)
  38. Lorelei Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Thi is currently my fave WWP thread.

    I'm still laughing over the 1998 document presented by the Scilons which cites euro-based cash transactions as well as their lack of reality-based knowledge about radiation.
  39. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    seriously, i think that ruined their credibility.

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