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French trial: the media

Discussion in 'Media' started by Olrik, May 25, 2009.

  1. Re: French trial: the media

    Hobgoblin.gif
  2. DeathHamster Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    *ahem*

    Scientology Sells... And Profits -- IRS Files Shed Light On Church's Finances October 21, 1993, Karl Vick, St. Petersburg Times, Seattle Times
    True, this is from almost 20 years ago, but it was the last time that CoS showed its tits finances, in return for the IRS deal. (Since then Davie has chopped the FSMs like he did the missions, but those guys who make membership tours are still at it.)
  3. Re: French trial: the media

    hmmmm... a question for Frenchfags, I'm an "un-subtitle" Amerifag, and I'm wondering: are French judges usually this snarky towards the accused, or is this a special case?

    Am I correct in reading that [STRIKE]he[/STRIKE] she can quite clearly see through all the blather and bullshit, and is replying with barely-hidden derision?
  4. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    This is the best thread on wwp.

    David Miscavige must be shitting brix. Scientology in court!

    Carry on.
  5. auchraw Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Sophie-Hélène Château is a female. Whether or not she is more or less antagonistic than usual I don't know but I think in France the decision to prosecute is taken by judges; so they may be quite well informed before they start the case. By and large I notice that the French let things go for a very long time (criminal gangs, extremists of various kinds), nothing happens and then suddenly, pow! 9000 of them are rounded up and end up in jail. They don't move until they have a LOT of information. I think her comments are a good sign. But fail or win this is very very bad publicity for the cult.

    The red white and blue is a nice idea but white on white is difficult to read.
  6. Re: French trial: the media

    MOAR.jpg
  7. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Except for the gender, you are right.
  8. Albion Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Coverage of week two of the Paris trial up at http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/:

    Day 4 (June 2): an expert witness dismissed Scientology’s Purification Rundown as quackery as the Paris trial considered the high doses of vitamins used in the programme.
  9. Anonymous Member

  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    ^ A good one. A little bit of expert cockslapping there!
  11. Touchstone Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    "Charlatanesque" is a beautiful word, isn't it? This trial makes me all tingly in ways I hope someone would explain to me.
  12. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Next step is "abracadabrantesque".
  13. Albion Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    That was just to see if you were paying attention... ;-)
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    thanks Jonny terrific coverage
  15. mnql1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Posted by Eldon on ARS:

    June 13, 2009

  16. mojo Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    anyone familiar with french judicial procedure.......will the ruling be made this week, or will it be at a later date??
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    i have no idea.
  18. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    AFAIK it can take a couple of weeks.
  19. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    In this trial is there a jury or only the judge?
  20. Albion Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    It may even take longer than that. While in some cases you can expect a verdict within weeks, one of the journalists who covers the court said that for a case of this importance they may prefer to take longer. This being a civilised country, where everything shuts down over summer, the verdict might even be held over until la rentrée (early September).

    A couple of other points: Michael, there is no jury in a case of this kind, as the offences involved are not serious enough (Infinite Complacency: 21 The Paris Trial I). In this case, the President of the Court Judge Sophie-Hélène Château and her two fellow judge assessors sitting on either side of her on the bench (both women too, incidentally) will decide on guilt or innocence and hand down any sentences.

    If there are guilty verdicts, the case can go to appeal, at which point there will be another trial. And if the prosecution is not happy with the severity of the sentences handed down, I think I am right in saying that they too can appeal. After an appeal court verdict, the case could also go to the Cour de Cassation -- the Supreme Court -- though they can only rule on points of law, rather than the facts of the case, so there would not be another trial (Cour de cassation).

    If the court rules for a ban on Scientology I would expect the case to go all the way. And, just speculating here, but I suppose Scientology might also try to take the case to the European Court of Human Rights if the Cour de Cassation confirmed a ban. That would lead to an interesting test of the civil liberties implications of the About-Picard law that provides for the dissolution of cult-like organisations (Infinite Complacency: 20 Scientology on trial in France).

    Another point worth bearing in mind: there has been some talk of the defendants lying on oath, but in fact, neither the plaintiffs nor the defendants are required to testify on oath. I think the idea in French law is that the court accepts that the antagonistic parties have their own versions of the truth and it is up to the judges to determine what really happened. The witnesses however, are required to swear a simple oath: having been asked if they swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, etc, they are required to raise their right hand and declare "Je le jure" -- "I swear it".

    Jonny
  21. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    To be complete the "Cour de cassation" can "break" (casser) the verdict and the whole thing starts back to day 1.
  22. avbb Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Vegas fags will be raising the French flag at our Global raid (in about 7 hours from now) in support.
  23. Anonymous Member

  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Hey JJ, excellent work on the articles/posts.
  25. Re: French trial: the media

    They said that.

    IN COURT

    lol_wut.jpg

    Just when you think it can't get any stupider...

    They have no idea, do they?
  26. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    You know what's even crazier? A fucking shower can remove radiation.

    Hubbard was such a fucking idiot he didn't understand the concept of what radiation is.
  27. Re: French trial: the media

    Oh, I know it's crazy. I actually read the 'All About Radiation' scans, just to see if it really was that fucked up.

    I just can't believe they peddled that shit IN COURT. It's like they *want* to get banhammered.
  28. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Thanks Albion!
    Very informative.
    :)
  29. crunch Member

  30. Blue Goo Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Wow. She really should not have brought that radiation crap up.. Maybe she is a believer and the cult can not tell to shut up about the crazy bits. Because then they'd admit it is nuts AND THEY KNOW IT. And risk her blowing in the middle of the trial.

    From all I've read, they haven't really been able to produce anything useful for their defence.
  31. Albion Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Just a brief update on the trial because I won't get to it on Infinite Complacency for a good while yet.

    The prosecution is asking for the "dissolution des personnes morales" -- which is to say they want the two Scientology organisations in the dock -- the Celebrity Centre of the L'Association spirituelle de l'Eglise de Scientologie (ASES) and the bookshop Scientologie espace liberté (SEL) -- to be shut down under the terms of the 2001 About-Picard law.

    They also want the two organisations to be fined two million euros each.

    For the six individual defendants, they asked for fines and in four cases suspended sentences:

    - for Alain Rosemberg, the managing director of the Celebrity Centre, 150,000 euros and a four-year suspended sentence;
    - for Didier Michaux, their star salesman, 50,000 euros and a three-year suspended sentence;
    - for Jean-François Valli, the other salesman, 25,000 euros and a three-year suspended sentence;
    - for Sabine Jacquart, who was president of the Celebrity Centre, 10,000 euros and a two-year suspended sentence;
    - for Aline Fabre, who managed the Purification Rundown, and for Marie-Anne Pasturel, who as agent for G&G in France took orders for the vitamins, 2,000-euro fines but no sentence so far as I could hear.

    The lawyers for the plaintiffs did their summing up today too and the hearing took place in a packed courtroom.

    The defence will plead tomorrow and Wednesday and then the panel of judges will consider their verdict and any sentences -- possibly for several weeks.
  32. avbb Member

    Re: French trial: the media



    ^^^^THIS oh yes! THIS THIS THIS!!!!^^^^ (except for the suspended sentences)
    If I were a man I'd have the biggest erection right now!
  33. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Thanks.
  34. AnotherMrPink Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Awesome!

    I think suspended sentences are just fine. It makes the whole thing seem more like its against the organization, and not the individuals.

    RTC getting hit with a total of Four million Euros is what little David Miscavige would hate the most. That plus total ban!!

    An awesome day that will be!
  35. AnonLover Member

  36. Anonymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Vive le France!!!!
  37. Avery1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Digg it : French prosecutor seeks dissolution of Scientology | Entertainment | Reuters

    A French prosecutor on Monday recommended a Paris court should dissolve the Church of Scientology's French branch when it rules on charges of fraud against the organization.

    Registered as a religion in the United States, with celebrity members such as actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, Scientology enjoys no such legal protection in France, where it has faced repeated accusations of being a money-making cult.
  38. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Prosecutor: The people rest.
    Judge: Counselor, you may begin your case. What is the case for the defense?
    Defense Attorney: *turns to jury* WHAT ARE YOUR CRIMES!?
  39. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Funny.
  40. mnql1 Member

    Re: French trial: the media

    Le parquet de Paris requiert la dissolution de la Scientologie - Le Monde.fr

    Quick translation:

    Paris prosecutor requests the dissolution of Scientology

    Thierry Lévêque, edited by Yves Clarisse

    June 15, 2009 20:10 (Paris time)

    Paris (Reuters) – The dissolution of the French branch of the Church of Scientology was requested by the Paris prosecutor at the tribunal where the organization is on trial since May 25 for organized fraud.

    The prosecution also asked for fines totalling four million Euros against the two principal legal entities of Scientology in France, the Spiritual Association of the Church of Scientology and the SEL (Scientologie espace liberté) bookstore.

    Four suspended prison sentences ranging from two years to four years along with fines ranging from 10,000 to 150,000 Euros and suspension of civic rights were also requested against four French Scientology officials.

    The highest penalty, a suspended sentence of four years in prison, a 150,000-Euro fine and a five-year suspension of civic rights, is aimed at the chief church official in France, Alain Rosenberg, 60.

    The Correctional Tribunal’s judgment is due to be delivered next autumn. Scientology denies the charges and says it is the victim of a violation of freedom of religion.

    Patrick Maisonneuve, lawyer for the American-born movement, said he was surprised. “This is a request for a death sentence for the Scientology legal entity,” he declared, announcing he would plead in favour of acquittal in the final hearings.

    THE PROSECUTOR REFUSED TO BE DRAWN INTO A RELIGIOUS DEBATE

    During a four-hour summation, prosecutor Maud Coujard opined that the argument concerning the religious nature of Scientology had no place before a tribunal.

    "No matter whether it is a supposed or real religion, this is not the forum for such a debate. Neither religious activity nor religious motivation constitute a justification in penal law,” she said.

    She argued that the organization used a series of fraudulent techniques to plunder its followers. The case concerns only two plaintiffs who said they were bilked of 21,000 and 49,500 Euros in 1998.

    According to her, the swindling techniques ranged from the recruitment test to the various forms that followers must fill in at each step of their program, which consists of auditing and “purification” treatments involving intensive sauna and jogging sessions.

    The goal is to obtain money in exchange for promises, said the magistrate. In her view, this fraudulent enterprise was purposely created for this from its origins in the United States in the 1950’s, when Scientology was founded by science fiction writer Ron Hubbard.

    The prosecutor brushed off the explanations of the defendants, who said that followers merely make “donations” on the way to fulfillment.

    “We heard on several occasions that happiness has no price. The office of the public prosecutor believes that if it had no price, it did have a cost,” she said.

    The requests come as a surprise because, when the investigation came to an end in 2006, the prosecution moved for general dismissal, judging that the accused had acted in good faith because of “religious convictions”.

    This position was defeated by an investigating judge who seized the tribunal. The stakes are therefore crucial for the movement, which today claims millions of followers and continues its expansion.

    If dissolution is ordered by the tribunal, it will only take effect if it is confirmed by the Court of Appeal and by the Court of Cassation, a process which could take years.

    Scientology officials have already been convicted of fraud in Lyon in 1997 and Marseille in 1999. Its Île-de-France branch was fined 8,000 Euros in 2002 for maintaining computer records on former followers.

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