Freezone+ Anon

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by basic2basic, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. me57 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    hubbard occult practicer admitted drugging his followersthe how to deal with 2.0 or lower on the tone scale was policy not a joke the man was a terribly ugly man that wanted nothing more than money and control.
  2. Moralfag Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Actually one thing that pissed me off yesterday was the ammount of Freezoners at TCR. I don't care if they come to troll the Scions, but keep your fail tech bullshit at home.
  3. Re: Freezone+ Anon

  4. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Oh the irony, it is bolded. I just want to post and say that I appreciate that many in the free zone are just trying to find their own way to truth, and I hope they find something that has meaning for them. The fact that many of you seem to take a stand against the fair game policy and the disconnection policy is great.

    But (and I'm sure you saw this coming) you are lumped in with LRH and his wacko church because well... you kind of have to be for everyone's safety. I'll address Terril directly in this comment, because he's one of the worst offenders imo. Some free zoners are more about KSW than anything else, and from Terril's previous behavior on this board (which earned him a permaban from Tamphex, iirc) he has shown that he only wants to wave his hands and tell people how great the free zone is. Stop, please.

    We have problems with scilons trying to get up in our business, as I am sure many of you free zoners do. We can't afford to trust the lot of you because even if 99% of you are lambs and 1% wolves, you're ALL dressed in wolves clothing. We can't tell the difference between you and the "bad" scilons because you all talk the same. I understand that many of you try to tell us that this is a misconception and just misplaced paranoia but well... the wolf costumes are just so convincing.

    And to Terril, I'm not going to ban you for ban evasion. I will however say that in my opinion (whatever that is worth), that any person who trusts a single word you say is a fool. Whatever information is available on you has been so tainted by the bitching and the bawwing and the drama on ARS and OCMB and everywhere else that you are essentially poison for your "religion" and any forum you post on about the free zone. Your old account Terril somehow got unbanned so if you need help getting back into it, feel free to ask one of us mods, we'll reset your password for you.
  5. Unlisted Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Once again. is not a promotion tool for your religion, webshop or blog.
    The members of the forum is not to be used as a potential recruitment pool.
    Terril has already been banned once from this forum for repeatedly ignoring warnings from the moderators on this subject and is asked to stop the propaganda machine.
  6. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ^^ nicely handled and QMFT.
  7. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Faggotry vanquished!!
  8. TakeAnonMe Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Terril has never contributed anything of value to Chanology. Every post he makes takes us OFF TARGET.

    I move for a perma-ban of Terril and any Terril sockpuppets.
  9. Unlisted Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    THIS, says all about how you view this forum.
    You're like a child that will ignore anyone that tells you no or something you don't want to hear.

    As you don't give a shit about decisions made by the mods, how about a public poll on whether or not you should be banned?


  10. Re: Freezone+ Anon

  11. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    No need for a poll. Permaban.
  12. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ^ Heh, but no doming this thread pl0x. You can lock it any time for all I care, but it's been a good and I think reasonably balanced discussion with a nice end statement. I must admit the wolves in sheep's clothing analogy had me very close to calling out "Furry!!!!" but I restrained myself from the desire.

    Do what you like with the $cilon for all I care. Frankly, and this is not an insult to OG but just the way it is, I don't personally believe that anyone who has been inside of $cientology for any length of time comes out without bearing some really substantial scars. Those who stick with the basic ideas after that experience and seeing what it leads to in the real world, truly make me pause and reflect.
  13. TakeAnonMe Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

  14. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I'm out of the cult 33 years and verify your concern. I keep wanting to say - look, I'm the example of how it's OK to get out, carry on, & move on. It took me a few years to shake off the terminology of the mindfuck, but I did.

    You have every reason to be suspicious. It's called SANITY.
  15. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    yes, because that cliche analogy totally doesn't predate a gay ass fandom.
  16. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I understand what you say, and actually agree. My thing here in this thread is simply letting people know that broad brush strokes have been painting over some unintended heads. A simple matter of definitions.

    Some Freezone is in fact as described. other Freezone doesn't fit the bill at all.

    But in the big picture, I support the push anon is giving, as it's very important that the job get done. If a few Freezone get themselves butthurted in the process, then it's too bad, and nothing they shouldn't be used to by now anyway.

    I'd doubt you could find more than 20 Freezone members who could walk into any org and hit the ground running and feel at home. They are very different by now, even if not different enough for everyones tastes.

    Personally, I know Terril to be a good guy. He is what he is, and does what he does. He's never changed before any pressure I've seen before, so don't expect him to now, but his message on this forum seems to be mostly that it's ok for anon and Freezone to work together, which I agree with.
  17. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    For me the key reality isn't about "hitting the ground running" when / if they returned to an org, it literally is that someone who had been at all could not fail to see the connection between the belief system and the result. This is a no brainer by all measures, and people who can't make the connection to the "tech" / processes involved and the outcome are risky bsns.
  18. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    oh wow, this rubbish again? don't you just love it when 3 months on people can pretend the discussion hasn't been done to death already and crawl in hoping to pull in the newer users to their side, hoping the others have forgotten.
    Well hooray for SEARCH, I just had to look for my posts containing 'insane'.

    This thread doesn't deserve the effort of further typing when I can just quote in what I said 3 months ago.

    done to death in :
    and probably more.

    If freezoners want to help highlight the crimes against human rights, and criminal activities of the CoS to law enforcement and helps us finally get something done about this cult, then GREAT the more the merrier, be sure your taking a damn good look at the parallels as you do it though.

    In the mean time I personally will not suffer proselytizing on this forum for any group or religion, and the rest of the mods feel the same way.
  19. narCONon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    quoted for great justice.
  20. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I hope you think I wasn't being over harsh, because I do appreciate the dialogue. I agree that the free zoners get painted with a broad brush, but you have to understand that when the bad ones pull some shady shit, the good ones are going to get painted as being shady. It's human nature, and it's not in our best interest to change that behavior right now. Not all members of the CoS are bad evil people, they're victims of a criminal organization, just as the freezoners are victims of the CoS and freezoners like Terril.

    We are here to bring down scientology, not help you with your own internal problems. We are not here to protect you from your own folly. Like the sign says, we ain't your personal army. If you're here to talk about ways of bringing down the cult, ways to offend the everliving shit out of them, and ways to make us laugh, yay. We could use your insight into how those sweet little scilons think.

    On the other hand, if you're here to convert new recruits, you can fuck off to whatever hole you crawled out of. It's up to each member of chanology how much they do... some of us have given an incredible amount. Considering where you come from, and that you are a freezoner I have a challenge for you.

    Have a discussion where you give direct answers to direct questions. None of this "well you have to think of it in the context of this" or "that isn't something that I recognize" or any of that bullshit. 100% plain english no bullshit answers to prices, practices, etc.

    Can you do it? Can you hold a discussion with someone asking serious questions that might cast your faith in a bad light, without evading? In my opinion, you'll do much more in the way of building bridges doing that than the current way you guys have been responding. If you want a positive response you're going to have to prove that you aren't just another group of people that are trying to sell a non-existent bridge.
  21. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    All I have to add at this point:

    A clear is "scientifically" defined. Doesn't get sick, has perfect recall of memories, ad nauseum. Show me a clear.

    An engram has "weight, charge, and mass". Prove it.

    Once those get answered, or FZ'ers stop referring to the brainwashing they do as "science" and "tech" maybe my opinion will change.
  22. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Facts, show us them.
  23. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Guys... take a step back.

    Do you also want proof that Jesus came back from the dead? I don't have any but I still think the guys pretty damn cool.

    They're just feeding this to make it blow up even farther. No such thing as bad press!
  24. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    There are a lot of questions I would like to hear straight answers about in this thread. I don't know is a totally acceptable answer, but I don't think that the art of knowingness allows for it though.

    Otherwise this is me agreeing with you.
  25. anonabwana Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I don't want proof that jesus came back from the dead when someone mentions him in context of scripture and the bible. I DO want proof that Jesus came back from the dead when someone claims him as - not only a REAL historical figure, not just one of MANY charismatic jewish leaders of the time who just happened to hit it big - but as the SON OF GOD who returned from the dead. When you make a statement which you claim to be factual and testable, then yes, back that shit up.

    When a scientologist says, "i believe that xenu sent all those thetans to earth because of my faith", fine, whatever. But when a scientologist says that the tech is science, i want them to back up their claims with careful observations under rigourously controlled scientific settings with control groups (and let's not forget - the plural of anecdote is NEVER data) and results which are consistently reproducible. That's science: it works, bitches.

    As far as freezone goes, i think it's too splintered a group to really put under the same name, but i don't have a problem with it as long as
    a) they are not peddling the tech as science
    b) they are not practicing fair game tactics

    but tbh, i agree with the poster that said freezone at this point is a non-issue.
  26. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I'm not here looking for recruits. I don't want recruits. I wouldn't know what to do with recruits. Probably call the cops for them being stalkers. I have nothing to recruit to. The little Freezone group I associate with doesn't look for members, and discourages people from trying to join, because they invariably start talking LRH and Scientology tech, and we are past that, and it takes too long to try to catch people up. It's easier to bring people who've never had contact with Scientology up to speed with what we're doing.

    I know a lot of people who've been hurt by CoS. Don't know very many harmed by the tech, but the church fucks up everybody it touches to some degree. That's why I'm here. To try to provide any insight my years in the church can provide to help you dismantle them and not end up fucked up by the church as well. Which I early on saw as a distinct possibility. Now I see you guys are a match for the CoS and can take care of yourself.

    Discussion and direct questions and answers? I haven't sidestepped any questions that I know of. But I have noticed anon members here having a hard time accepting some of my truthful answers because of some stereotyping or assumptions that as Freezone I must be trying to apologize for LRH and the tech. I simply call any of that as I see it.

    I see statements like It was all a big scam and con from the first day, and for every day since that time, and could never have been anything but a scam and con, ever. That to me is just stupid and ignorant, because that's not my experience. I'm a pretty good judge of character and sincerity, and I've heard lots of LRH tapes where he was sincere. I've read passages in his books that were intended as helpful. I know he wasn't always bad.

    I also know about the admission, the drugs, the bad policy, the abuse, the chain locker, the pathological lying, the paranoia, the megalomania. Everything. But that still doesn't mean that everything he ever did was bad.

    What's the truth? I'm not sure it's all out in the open yet. He was certainly two faced, mean, smart, manipulative, productive, charismatic, good orator, hot tempered, bigoted, disloyal, paranoid, egotistical, organized, purpose driven, tragic. His church went nuts, and it did so on his watch. Nobody else can be blamed. He loved to blame and take no responsibility himself. everyone else had to make it go right, be he just needed a scapegoat when his shit didn't pan out. From what I know now, I'd have slept with one eye open if he was around. And I still can't see him and all he did as bad. I see bad where there's bad, and good where there's good.

    So yes I object when someone shrieks ALL BAD, out of ignorance, or to drum up hive mind support. Certainly more bad than good, and probably to the point where there'd be no chance of redeeming the group. Individual ideas, evaluated for their merit may still permit sane use, but the group is history. Too much of his insane policy is interwoven into all the other tech and stuff to permit anything but what anon is doing.

    I welcome any direct questions, and try to answer honestly. But to borrow the sig line from someone on ESMB "the truth is what it is...not what you want it to be". Don't blame me if you don't like my answers.

    on your last paragraph, nobody here knows what my faith is, so I don't know how I can be asked questions which might cast a bad light on it.

    I'm an example where stereotyping doesn't quite work. I'm not a Scientologist, not am I a Scientology tech adherent. I've just got experience with both, and have come to a sort of balanced view of what the whole experience was about, with truth and fiction separated.
  27. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Fixed. Welcome to the internet.
  28. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    please for the love of longcat, if we have to do this lets start using numbered bullets, so if/when they're avoided we can play the numbers game.

    here a couple including 2 that have just been avoided to start with.

    1. A clear is "scientifically" defined. Doesn't get sick, has perfect recall of memories, ad nauseum. Can you prove the existence of one single "Clear"? (name them)
    2. 'An engram has "weight, charge, and mass".'
      1. Do you believe this? (yes/no)
      2. Prove it.
    3. Do you believe a being (possibly called 'Xenu'/'Xemu' but lets keep this non specific ) killed a huge number of other beings a very long time ago, and their spirits are the root cause of all/most of humankinds problems. (yes/no)

    Answers longer than 1 word for any question other than 1 and 2.2 show your avoiding things.
  29. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

  30. Fancy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    For me it is the 2nd as I am sick to death of wars and abuse. As well as greed in corporations and rotten governments.

    I think many are so tired of that. Time for mankind to grow up and it does not matter what path they take. I choose mine.


  31. Whitehatv2 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I know of one group that peddles their own "Tech" instead. But I'm not sure what else is different about it though.

    FZers that are about as Fundi as the CO$, I do not want.

    If there are FZers out there though who run as a Self-help group instead of a faked church. Then that is their right.
  32. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    For me? :massivegrin:

    1. No such beast, fitting that description exists. Never has, never will, in a human being.

    2. I don't know whether it has those things or not. I know I can find one on an Emeter, or at least something that "behaves" like one.

    Prove it isn't a question.

    3. I don't know whether any of that was anything more than a drug trip of LRH's. The phenomenon of BT's was never understood in LRH tech. He thought they were real beings. Most of what Scientologists run as BT's on OT3 are actually what the Tibetans called thought forms. There is a great deal of relief in running out thought forms, which is why those doing OT3 claim to get so much out of it. And which also explains why you get dumb looks from them when you insist it's science fiction. They know something happened, all right. When this level is complete, you can get a temporary cessation of "thoughts running around in your head, that you didn't think". A pleasant quietness, but it doesn't last with the tech of OT3, which is why they have to then spend years on NOTS, which also doesn't last. Several independent researchers have much more elegant handlings for thought form/BT phenomena, and so far appear much more stable months and years afterward.
  33. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You a moderator?

    You know little about what you are talking about. Very few members of COS are evil.

    Freezoners are not victims of COS. Where did you get that idea?

    You know someone who is a victim of me?
  34. Asterix Member

  35. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Remember I said there's been so much drama and bawwing over you and your need to recruit, that anything you say is poison? There's such a huge he said she said going on that it's stupid to trust you.

    I am a reasonable person and do realize that I don't know you and this is quite unfair. You have my apology for it, but it doesn't change the fact that all the black PR, bitching, shit talking and drama associated with your name handicaps the fuck out of you. No one escapes the CoS unscathed. In your case, they took your reputation.

    You're doing really poorly in trying to repair it. I guess the idea of "attack, never defend" is pretty strongly ingrained in you.

    And to reply "very few members of the CoS are evil":
    They may not be evil, but they are certainly misguided into doing "evil" things.

    also: yes I am a moderator, but that doesn't mean anything. I'm an internet janitor. All mods on this site have red names, for future reference.
  36. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Regarding, "Do you know someone who is a victim of me?" statement earlier.

    Do you know someone who was a victim of you? Did you ever in your life while inside $cientology promote the cult to anyone? Did you ever do stress test tables? Did you never, ever attempt to involve someone else in this wonderful new form of "enlightenment" you then called a religion?

    One of the things that's often pointed out but rarely listened to by anyone who is in or has been in the cult is the very real reality that being lucky enough to be one of the few to wake up and blow does not absolve all the things you participated in when you were there. $cientology is just about the most excellent excuse for not taking personal responsibility for one's actions that I've ever seen in my life! Next to meth, it's totally off the scale in terms of what people rationalize about their own responsibility for their own past actions.

    I respect the OG who can, even if only rarely for some and they know who they are, sometimes get past the thirst for revenge and the rationalization of wanting to help people out, and just be honest about how much it sucks to feel like they were partly responsible for getting ___ number of people into that fucking thing. I didn't realize it until sometime of late that some people actually went back and counted them all up and sort of relived the guilt a lot.

    I respect the heck out of OG who are here to "pay dues" for their culpability, no matter how small, in propping up that thing. Yeah, there are lots of reasons in our lives we turn to such things and yes they wind you up to do stuff, but some OG's just seem unwilling to admit they had a hand in it and those sorts of people frankly tick me off.

    tl;dr I'm tired of $cientologists (present and former) using "mind controlling cult" as an excuse to blame the management and not the tech or themselves. "If it's used properly the tech...." blah, blah, blah. "Show me a motherfucking clear."

    Right on to the OG who know (it's not needful to vocalize it, I didn't say this to embarrass any of you who "get it"), and to those who really haven't take that long, cold, hard and introspective look in the mirror and begged forgiveness at least for themselves FROM themselves for that shit, need to get a clue.

    If you're active in dragging people into believing $cientology can cure anything as a matter of ANYTHING other than a miracle cure, then show proof or stop pedaling it. If you're really that clueless about the poison you sell that you can still do it and try to rope others into it after all you've been through, well then I got real questions about whether anything in FZ is worth saving.

    To me it seems very much about absolutely nothing of value to be lost.
  37. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Again, the difference is that one belief system requires no more than faith while the other is touted as scientific fact. is this mic on?
  38. Mousey Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    To put it succintly, how many people did you bring into the Church of Scientology?

    There are your victims.

    Also, as an example of your coat tail attraction, can you explain this?

    Faggotry of the highest order.

    From this site: International Freezone Association
  39. lucifuge Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Terril Plz see my post in thunderdome, as what i want to say to you cannot be said outside of it.
  40. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You have "faith" that you can find an engram with an e-meter. The label on the bottom of it proves it a not a scientific instrument.

    But, if you have faith that you can do so, then I would suppose it's not different than faith in transubstantiation of the bread into the body of Christ for the Catholics.

    It's when it's referred to as science that I take issue. Because it's not. It's been disproven scientifically time and time again.

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