Freezone+ Anon

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by basic2basic, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Originally Posted by anonymusicz View Post
    Right, but they still use the "tech". And goldenrodanon stated they have espoused the "tech" but still consider themselves scientologist. So I am confused as to how that is the case.

    Not correct, MPB. I was being honest, but I associate with only one small Freezone group, which only calls itself that because many in the group used to be Scientologists. It's a little over 200 people, with maybe 20 actively pursuing self development.

    Group members practice whatever they want, including Geoff Filberts corrected version of the Scientology tech, Slavinski's "Peat", EFT, Ifa polarity handling, Magick, Meditation, Yoga, Tai Chi, Rupert sheldrakes work on Morphic fields, and probably lots more that escapes my just now.

    So no, it's not just LRH in other words. But it IS part of the freezone, which is why I keep saying you can't lump Freezone in with CoS and LRH tech. The whole of Rons Org uses LRH standard up to a point and then switches to Captain Bill Robertsons tech.

    The Freezone is a melting pot and very much a work in progress, which the CoS is not, or shouldn't be, per their own policies.

    The first thing that is however dumped in the freezone even if they continue to use LRH tech, is the stupid policy. The Fair Game, and enforced disconnection. Almost everyone who leaves the church comes to their senses on that shit. And they don't try to run things like some para-military organization, with one minor exception.

    I don't really care what you all do, but I personally don't like being lumped in with LRH and his Wacko church. Left that far behind. And now from that distance, can look again at the tech as see where there is anything worth looking at again. Filberts corrected Manuscript, Excalibur revisted gives one a good starting place for re-evaluating Hubbards work, as he chucked 98% of it after doing his own study on LRH tech.
  2. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Happens every time.....
  3. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Then your freezone I take no issue with. Do what thou wilt. But as for the others...

    (I smell meat/caek)
  4. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Picts or it didn't happen?


    i dunno ... Anonymusicz looks Druish to me ...
  5. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Entirely a matter of preference.

    You and I may like a salad bowl of purist traditions, while others like the new age soup where you can't tell what's in it any more.

    To each their own ...

    P.S. I was very much thinking of Jung, but in terms of anthro-psychology, so I didn't want to confuse the issue with Freudian psychology. I make things more complicated than they need to be as it is!
  6. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Sort of.

    In the FZ there are SOME fundamentalists just as bad as hardcore mainline Scienos, taking every utterance and ink drop as unquestionable truth. However, the Scientologists institutionalize this mentality with penalties for not being in agreement.

    But even in the CoS, the belief isn't the controlling factor so much as not questioning their interpretation of the beliefs / scriptures (policy letters) at any given moment. They make LRH say whatever they want people to believe for the moment for compliance, just like extremist Christians tout this or that passage out ("making" the bible say/mean this or that) to enforce the expectation of the day, making the preacher's authority seen as representing God's judgment, therefore unquestionable.

    Sorry I'm rambling ... hope I'm making sense ... it's late and I believe I have a protest tomorrow ...
  7. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Sorry if some may not like the DSM, but it IS the terminology standard for mental health. from what I understand, they changed the terms over the years and some versions use "sociopath" and others use "psychopath", "anti-social personality diorder", "passive-aggressive" ... I think they are all the same classification just called different things at different times. But I'm a bit rusty on my DSM history, so I probably screwed it up somewhere. My own copy is a DSM-IIR and it's burind in a box somewhere in anticipation of moving.

    But anyway, the closest equivalent to a psychopath is a 1.1 SP. Psychopaths aren't the violent axe murderers in the movies - they are the con men and criminals who act with tremendous forethought and no conscience. They are the pedophiles who are loved by the neighborhood moms, the woman beater who charms the hell out of everyone, the cult leader with the cleanest shoes, finest suit, and winning smile.
  8. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Multi-quoted for truth...

  9. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Sounds like anonymous... heh lol
  10. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Are Freezoners on "a mission" to "clear the planet?"

    How they answer will tell me if they are friendly or not.
  11. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You're kidding right? What's the difference between a FZ'er and a $cientologist attempting to appear to be out and Anon? Given their history, and you'll pardon me saying the OG's history (good for us with leaks) of infiltrating everything but the cracks between my walls and floorboards, are we really so sure that the defection risk of an OSA agent masquerading as a FZ'er is so great that DM hasn't spent years infiltrating the apostacy?

    We could chip them for r/f id, other than that I don't know how you "tell the difference."
  12. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Are Freezoners? What Freezoners? There are NO generic Freezoners.

    That's like asking "Is the USA Christian?"

    I give up trying to explain this.

    Ok. Yes. The Freezoners trying to clear the planet, are trying to clear the planet. The Freezoners who couldn't give a shit about clearing the planet, are not trying to clear the planet. And any Freezoner with a brain bigger than a walnut, knows what an idiotic quest that is. Somebody ought to ask the planet if it wants clearing before rushing off on some stupid crusade.
  13. wat Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Martin Luther was a strict anti-Semite, but millions (billions?) of people think he is worthy of praise, and is the most studied human being evar. It's not like his anti-Semitic treatises really made a difference in with the nations of Germany and world history, right guise?
  14. Daywatch Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon


  15. wat Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Hay guise, I think gays hate free-zone for some reason. :hc:

    Besides arguing about our differences, is there a better way for FZ to protest without covering their identity as an FZ, or getting shit from some of the anons? I'm not trying to say that the "DO NOT WANT" argument is bad, but if the FZ's want to protest, let them do it. Hopefully they'll understand why most of us do not agree with LRH at all.

    When Chanology ends with the Anonymous victory, there will be so much literature and discussion about Scientology's problems that it will be difficult for people to consider the Free Zoners unless they live in a closet.
  16. AnonZombie Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Long thread is long, and I'm not going to read 12 pages of this shit, but I'll throw in my opinion real quick. Guys, what we personally think about the Freezone doesn't matter. The fact is that they are harmless, period. They don't trick people, they don't fair game people, they don't do any of the other really bad things the CoS does, and frankly, it's stupid of us to not want to work with them. Who are we to attack what works for people? It doesn't matter how crazy the stuff is, how much sense it makes or whatever. If it helps people, than I'm okay with that, and you should be too (and obviously it works for some people, because they, unlike the people inside the CoS, aren't paying and aren't being forced to be there. Again, put aside what you think about them being brainwashed or any of that and look at it logically. They are a very powerful ally, and not allying with them leaves us vulnerable to looking like bigots (and closer to actually being bigots).

    tldr; Doesn't matter what you think of them. They are a powerful ally and saying shit about them is going to hurt us. Period. Basically, if you don't like them, just stfu and keep it to yourself.

    A message to any Freezoners reading this: please try to ignore the Anons that oppose you being around and try to understand that they have some very strong opinions because of what they know about the CoS and such, and that while they shouldn't be voicing them so much, they are entitled to them. As for myself, I welcome any Freezoners to our protests, especially in DC (the two guys we've had there a few times have been wonderful, really nice guys), and if any of you want to PM me for info or just to chat or whatever, feel free. Cheers.

    ^Yeah, I ended up ranting, but oh well.
  17. Asterix Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Yeah provide dox as to what makes the "Freezone" a powerful ally. Hell I'll just take an example of any relevance as to how exactly the "Freezone" helps chanology. I've seen a few individuals hand some old LRH shit that's been on the web for years but beyond that....

    And to conclude NYPA, this is a discussion any anon's voice is equal to all others. So STFU about STFUing.
  18. anon10 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    NO U

    WTF is "helps/works for people" and why wouldn't a Church of Opiate Use count? I hear CP works/helps keep Pedeos from molestoring rampages ...
    It matters to ME how crazy something is, this is in NYPA, but killing bad memes is my personal fight. The Anonymous Meme vs Tech Meme is what >I< am participating in.
    Not all ideas are created equal and deserve equal treatment
    to quote George Carlin:
    "It's all bullshit folks, and it's bad for you"

    I'm in no way suggesting anyone rule out FZ without a healthy dose of DO UR RESEARCH FAGGOTS. I personaly think they are another flavor of "any awnser is better than no awnser (now w/ 75% Science!)" and really the Scientific Method meme doesn't need any extra bastardization.
    Peer reviewed Tech or GTFO
    ("but FZ is so varied in it's Tech uses" fine get the bulk peer reviwed spread the word on what is/isn't a placebo and make your FZ tech better, what's the harm? Till then you are just obscuring the, already hard to defend, line on what is and is not Science. imho)
  19. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    No, it answers nothing. it is what they MEAN be "clearing the palnet" and HOW they go about doing it. Buddhism wants all sentient beings to reach Enlightenment, Christians want the Kingdom of Heaven to be truly at hand, etc.

    If Clearing the Planet means stepping up mankind in its spiritual evolution or creating some Utopia, they why is this BAD? It's okay for people to want to save the world, so long as it doesn't mean forcing your own version of it on everybody else.

  20. SovietV Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    This is where you first went wrong^

    This is where we see you are retarded
  21. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Hey...good questions there Robert

    Hasn't Terrill been back to answer them? I'm so surprised....nay shocked!

    (BTW very interesting thread)
  22. Re: Freezone+ Anon

  23. Samuel Hughes Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Not sure what motives you are trying to imply I posess ...

    If "Clearing the Planet" means making everyone Scientologists, that's fascist.

    It if means bringing mankind as a whole to the point where they are in control of their actions and beliefs instead of reacting to everything around them aimlessly all the time, it doesn't sound so bad to me.

    Again, it's a matter of what you mean and what you do, and "clearing the planet" for David Miscavige isn't the same as what it means for well-intentioned Scientologists. All this talk of origination ... I'm not sure it is more than philosophical side-stepping to create some black-and-white distinction instead of looking beyond oversimplified judgment.
  24. AnonyFag Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Sure... why not? As long as you don't mind "putting away quietly and without sorrow" that 2.5% of the population that LRH insists cannot be brought up the Tone Scale, I'm sure the economy, being what it is today, Krupps and I.G. Farben would welcome orders for big ovens and "happy gas".
  25. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Again, this may be an interpretation issue. As one FZ had said (goldenrodanon) "The group I associate with has discarded everything L Ron said." They do not proclaim to be scientologist, but use the "tech" of sorts with "pure" motives.

    I would suppose this kind of thing I would not oppose. But, the ones who are the Co$ without the OSA (IFA) I at this time can not support. They have the same structure and follow the "tech" to the letter.
  26. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Today at the london protest I and others were told by an anon that
    there is no way that COS can pull the religious bigot card when
    scientologists are also protesting COS along with anon.
  27. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I'm not some 24/7 robot! Been out protesting and partying and its
    5.30 am where I am. And I need to get to bed.

    My fan club must be patient. :)
  28. Asterix Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Say what? They already pull it out. We all know it's bullshit you being there doesn't actually make their statement false.

    Their statement is false off the bat.
  29. anyjane Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Non- sequitur ITT.

    Question: if true, did they use the word "Freezone", "You" or "Scientologist"?
  30. basil Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    They can't call us bigots anyway.

    Definition of bigot:
    • a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own
    • One strongly loyal to one's own social group, and irrationally intolerant or disdainful of others
    • Intolerant person: somebody who has very strong opinions, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity
    • A person obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious creed, opinion, or practice

    Ask a Scientologist "would you be willing to read some information that might make you change your mind on the accuracy and claims of Scientology" and the chances are they'll point blank refuse, claiming that, as Tom Cruise said, "Scientologists are the only ones that can truly help".

    Seems to me to match pretty much all the definitions above :)
  31. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    This is what I meant by my query on "clearing the planet." Do Freezoners consider certain designated human souls as trash to be taken out?
  32. dub Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    not the Freezones personal army.

    If the freezoners want to protest, fine. but we're not here to validate their beliefs or cheer them on in their grudgematch with DM.
  33. AnonyFag Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    This is where the FZ could actually pose more of a problem, theoretically, than the CoS. There's a multitude of FZ groups out there, very much like factions, and each one adheres to a certain number or flavours of LRH teachings and "tech". Some throw the baby out with the bathwater, some pick and choose what works specifically for them others follow the "old school" type 100% Standard Tech the way good ol' Ron "intended". None of the individual factions seem to be able to agree 100% on what was good and what's crap. I understand there's a fair amount of infighting where it comes to dogma in this vein.

    With all these opposing viewpoints, you can never be sure exactly where you stand with any one particular group... The one you're dealing with my accept the Tone Scale, or it may have pitched it out the window.

    At least with the CoS it's "their way or the highway" in terms of what to believe, how to believe it and how to apply it, as odd as it sounds... With CoS, you know that Scilon trying to stare you down wants you eliminated.
  34. me57 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    so are you saying Anyone 2.0 on the tone scale should either be brought up or done away with discreetly without remorse. diqusting. My Father had a mental illness took His medication you could not find a kinder more caring Person. i am glad for My Reactive Miond or i might put My hands on a hot stove and get burned. i am glad for My critical thinking not being squelched it keeps Me from falling victim to a disgusting, ugly abusive cult such as is scientology.
  35. me57 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    so are you saying Anyone 2.0 on the tone scale should either be brought up or done away with discreetly without remorse. diqusting. I knew a wonderful Man that had a mental illness took His medication you could not find a kinder more caring Person. i am glad for My Reactive Mind or i might put My hands on a hot stove and get burned. i am glad for My critical thinking not being squelched it keeps Me from falling victim to a disgusting, ugly abusive cult such as is scientology.
  36. themadhair Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    WUT? Please see this.
  37. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    True. Although the constant fighting and disagreement with various Freezone factions pretty much guarantees they'll never be a threat to anyone. They can't get together to organize anything except within their faction or a few like minded ones.

    Another thing to consider is that various Freezone groups feel restricted in promoting to the general public, because they can't publicly identify themselves as Scientologists, delivering Scientology.

    Ironically, Anonymous is changing that too, now. The church has it's hands full with anon, so you never hear of them attacking Freezone anymore. So Some Freezoners who want to be more public, are finding it much less dangerous to do so.

    On clearing the planet, it was never other than a fools errand from the get go. Clearing the planet in a Scientology sense, means basically achieving the aims of Scientology, which amount to creating a civilization without insanity, Criminals and War, where rights can be had because there aren't those preying on the weak and unaware, and where mutual support and cooperation permits the development of a civilization that can grow into positive new directions, instead of decaying back into the "same ole' shit", of war, crime, and insane behaviour.

    History shows you can't just start on a crusade like this without permission, and L Ron never got permission. That just makes it enforcing ones view of how things should be, over the protestations of those you see as inadequate. It doesn't work.

    It can happen as a by product of helping people to improve their outlooks, and attitudes, who then influence their smaller areas positively. But you can't set out to change a civilization. It objects, and kicks the shit out of you for good measure.

    The idea of genocide was never suggested seriously, and the comment about disposing of anyone quietly and without remorse is hard to take seriously when read in context. Seems to me another example of Hubbards quirky sense of humour. Although I don't doubt he would have been hard on what he perceived as SP's had he come to the kind of global power he sought.

    But R2-45 was never other than a joke, and neither were any other references to killing people. THAT would be totally against everything the philosophy and tech was about. Kill an SP? Per the Scilon tech, all you will have accomplished is providing a very nasty little child to some unsuspecting expectant couple a few hours or days later.

    It's a friends close...enemies closer situation. An SP you know about can be watched. Kill him, and the thetan is freed to be reborn into a new baby body. A Scientologist would automatically realize this, and opt of long term isolation of any they perceive as SP, rather than killing them.

    This is fundamentally obvious to any Scientologist or Ex Scientologist.
  38. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    No. None I've ever seen or talked to. Clearing the planet referred to the verb form of Clear in the scientology sense. Or making people into Clears, which no one has M F'ing seen, so it's not a problem in any case. It's not about clearing as you would a forrest.

    The closest thing to trash souls in Scientology is the SP, and only because hubbard erroneously insisted that they could never be helped or improved. He also contradicted himself on that point in his 68 Class VIII course where he said standard tech was the solution to ALL cases.

    Either way, the whole idea in Scientology tech about dealing with SP's is to just stay away from them. (disconnect). They erred in that there really are not anything like the number of people who fit the bill (all 12 negative characteristics, and none of the 12 positives). Maybe one in a hundred thousand or million, instead of 2 and a half percent of all people, or even the majority of people as is now apparently considered the case inside the head of CoS managament. The tech says stay away from them. The policy the group runs on (as distinct from the tech) says to rip them apart with a smear campaign to where nobody would ever listen to them again. The SP declare has become totally political in the CoS.

    There have been a couple of SP declares recently in a couple of Freezone areas, but both have since been retracted when all attention turned on the declarers, and they were in danger of being themselves isolated from the rest of the Freezone groups.

    So it looks for now, at least, like the freezone ain't havin' that back in the game.
  39. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Like I said, happens every time.
  40. me57 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    hubbard occult practicer admitted drugging his followersthe how to deal with 2.9 or lower on the tone scale was policy not a joke the man was a terribly ugly man that wanted nothing more than money and control.

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