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Freezone+ Anon

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by basic2basic, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I don't have enough spare time to take up every comment or question directed towards me, or the freezone, of which I am no more a spokesman than Terril is.

    So I'll just lay a couple of ideas out in broad strokes.

    I agree with virtually everything Samuel Hughes posted today. (And no, I'm not saying that to discredit him :wag:)

    He took the time to go to where they live, and check them out for himself.

    Whether it's directly connected or not, he brings back an understanding of what's the reality over there that is right on the money.

    An example of how this doesn't work out well, is a comment a few pages back where someone said they learned a lot about the Freezone here on this thread. That is a stretch for me, because I see a lot of misconceptions based on heresay and assumptions in this thread.

    If you want to find out about something, the wrong way to go about it is by proceeding like "I know this is all batshit crazy, so let me find supporting evidence for that assumption...."

    Count the number of "Freezone is all...." and "Freezone believes...." and "It all comes from insane Hubbard, and Freezone follows insane Hubbard, so Freezone is therefore....." in this thread.

    Either you're not hearing any of us saying there is no generic Freezone, or it just doesn't fit with conclusions already arrived at before discussion.

    Most of you would be in error in assuming you know what the Freezone is. The Freezone Group I associate with has abandoned LRH tech. Work that into your assumptions.
  2. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    And some haven't.. hence... using the term "FreeZone" is like associating something with all "Christians"
  3. AnonyFag Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Let me break out the learning assistance tools for you:

    hubbard_lgbtq.jpg

    Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health by L. Ron Hubbard wrote:
    The sexual pervert (and by this term Dianetics, to be brief, includes any and all forms of deviation in dynamic two such as homosexuality, lesbianism [32], sexual sadism [33], etc. and all down the catalogue of Ellis [34] and Krafft-Ebing [35]) is actually quite ill physically. Perversion as an illness has so many manifestations that it must be spread through the entire gamut [36] of classes from (1) to (5) above. Over-development of sexual organs, underdevelopment, seminal [37] inhibition or magnification, etc. are found some in one pervert, some in another. And the sum of it is that the pervert is always a very ill person in one way or another, whether he is conscious of it or not. He is very far from culpable [38] for his condition, but he is also so far from normal and so extremely dangerous to society that the tolerance of perversion is as thoroughly bad for society as punishment for it. Lacking proper means prior to this time, society has been caught between tolerance and punishment, and the problem of perversion has, of course, not been resolved. A bit off the subject here, but it can be remarked about perversion that the best previous explanation for it was something about girls becoming envious of Papa’s penis or boys becoming upset about that terrible thing, the vulva, which Mama was incautious enough to show one day. It takes a great deal more than this utter tripe [39] to make a pervert. It is, rather, something on the order of kicking a baby’s head in, running over him with a steam roller, cutting him in half with a rusty knife, boiling him in Lysol [40] and all the while with crazy people screaming the most horrifying and unprintable things at him. The human being is a very tough character. He is so confoundedly tough that he has whipped the whole animal kingdom and he can shake the stars. And when it comes to throwing his second dynamic out of balance, what that takes is straight out of Dante and Sax Rohmer combined. Hence the pervert, containing hundreds and hundreds of vicious engrams, has had little choice between being dead and being a pervert. But with an effective science to handle the problem, a society which would continue to endure perversion and all its sad and sordid effects doesn’t deserve to survive.
    _____________________________

    [32] lesbianism: homosexual relations between women.
    [33] sadism: the getting of sexual pleasure from dominating, mistreating or hurting one's partner.
    [34] Ellis: Henry Havelock Ellis (1859-1939), English criminologist and psychologist who conducted studies in psychology and sociology of sex.
    [35] Krafft-Ebing: Baron Richard von Krafft-Ebring (1840-1902), German neurologist and author of works on sexual pathology.
    [36] gamut: the entire range or extent, as of emotions.
    [37] seminal: pertaining to, containing or consisting of semen.
    [38] culpable: deserving blame; blameworthy.
    [39] tripe: (slang) anything worthless, offensive, etc.; nonsense.
    [40] Lysol: (trademark) a brand of clear, brown, oily solution used as a disinfectant and antiseptic.

    From Book Two Chapter Five Psychosomatic Illness pp. 135-136 (c) 1992 L. Ron Hubbard Library
  4. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Primarily because I think there are far fewer of them than he
    thought.

    Someone earlier on this thread commented on " psychopath,
    sociopath". Same thing yes?

    Or look in another way. Would you like such people associating with your children?
  5. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I fear we touched a nerve (sorry). I'm not talking about the historic sects, but esoteric philosophy. You're right if we are talking about Manicheism or the like. But the term gnosis refers to spiritual practice and for Plotinus is a search for divine, not earthly knowledge. It may be considered heretical, true. However, certain Christic mystics, like Meister Eckhart, got into trouble when their writings started seeming a little gnostic. Mysticism gets, well, mystical.
  6. AnonyFag Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    No.

    Although "psychopath" and "sociopath" are often interchanged there's a difference in that the psychopath has no remorse, guilt or conscience when it comes to causing harm to others.

    A Sociopath can hurt people, but is prone to feelings of remorse and/or regret more readily. sociopaths are more likely to be loners or introverted. In fact, many Anonymous could be termed to be sociopathic; (basement dwellers with awkward face to face social skills with a tendency to keep to themselves.
  7. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I was asked WHO I am and how Powerful I was in different terms by
    someone addressing me personally on this thread. I gave my answer.
    You censure me for that? And also I note you use the royal " we".

    And you comment on my ego. :)

    Wish We were introduced at the San Francisco protest May 10. :)

    It was not a freezoner who interviewed me. See the questions he asked! I was also interviewed by Tommy Gorman, a real sweet guy. He wouldn't let me talk without interupting and it was a dogs breakfast. I have no problem if he wishes to broadcast it. Don't do anyone any favours as far as I can see.

    My opening post was " political".

    In your words:-

    "where ex-members, freezoners, Anonymous and the general public discuss and plan protests against the church of scientology."

    Or am I personally excluded by " We". :)
  8. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    So if you abandoned the "tech" then you're not scientologist... I mean, you might be a part of some sect that sprung up from Freudian Psychoanalysis then...

    I mean, honestly, me saying "I abandoned everything Jesus said, but I'm a christian." completely flies in the face of logic.

    I doesn't work when one says "I'm a christian pagan" It doesn't work.

    Seriously, fill me in on where I am wrong here. I am plain confused now.
  9. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Philosophy kinda rolls out the door when real world examples of failure have been recorded. The Gnosticism concept is flaws just like Communism is flawed. Great ideas put into practice don't always work due to the human condition, human weakness.

    Faith isn't the quest for knowledge or enlightenment. Faith is something that drives us to keep walking forward in our brief and mostly uneventful lives.
  10. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I saw you and recognized you the second Ever (the guy in the transformers helmet) started interviewing you. I know who you are and what you represent. hence, why I stayed away from you.

    And that is exactly the kind of bullshit we don't need. Especially a day before I giant raid.

    Yes, until you understand the concept that this site is run under. Your incessant need to announce yourself is exceedingly annoying. There's plenty of FZ here that don't need to post inflammatory crap and contribute regularly.
  11. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Did christ write the bible? No.

    If you actually check out alot of FZ writing is all rewritten as to not step on the COS's feet. It's all the same idea but written by other people. Do you realize how many versions of the bible there have been? How many iterations and rewrites?

    If an original Christian saw what Christianity is today they wouldn't call "them" Christians.

    So, what's your point?
  12. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Right, but the "tech" is the foundation of Scientology. If you gut what makes scientology, then are you a scientologists then, or what?

    I have checked out a lot of the FZ stuff. And from looking at it, not much of LRH's tech was discarded. Maybe the texts have been paraphrased, but it's the same concepts.

    Just because over 100 years ago, we had a different way to write "Jesus was the son of god" the concept is still there. So, I think what you used there was a false analogy in this case.

    Honestly, I'm confused. If a Freezoner labels themselves a Scientologist, then don't they have to use the tech? Or the fundamental concepts?

    --- EDIT---
    As for number of version of the bible, approximately 16 (reliable) iterations, the oldest of which maintains the same underlying concepts that are held by christians today.
  13. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    They do. They just have to go about it other ways so CoS doesn't sue the shit out of them. (FZ will tell you different, but it's a load of shit)

    They just don't take it as a literal word for word belief system. As a FZ you can believe whatever the shit you want to, really. If I'm correct, OP doesn't even believe in the whole Xemu story.
  14. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Right, but they still use the "tech". And goldenrodanon stated they have forsaken the "tech" but still consider themselves scientologist. So I am confused as to how that is the case.
  15. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    It's called he's lying. It's the tech.. just with a different name and a little different wording.
  16. AnonMSW Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    "Counseling" without training, even pastoral counseling, is considered to be a crime in many states if not all. If you want to advertise FZ as "life coaching," at least until that profession in conjunction with regulators decides to establish professional qualifications and guidelines for licensure, then call it that. But unless a $cientologist has a degree in the field of psychiatry, psychology, clinical social work, or has some other form of accreditation, it's not "counseling."

    When it is completely and utterly devoid of claims to anything but belief, then perhaps I'll go along. So long as words like "counseling" are mentioned in conjunction with the exchange of money, what they're doing either is or should be illegal.
  17. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    i see wut u did thar

    Ok, I got you now.
  18. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    QFMFT
  19. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    fuck this. I got a protest to go to and booze to drink. I'll be back to talk when I'm way more drunk.
  20. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You were that scared of me?

    Oh! Sorry. Has my incessant need to announce myself overshadowed yours?
  21. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    But they exist, right?
  22. Anonagi Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ...you say you're Scientologists but don't use any of the LRH tech?

    That's like saying you're Christian because you have Sunday brunch at a restaraunt across the street from a Church.
  23. ScudMuffin Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I think we have to be careful with FZ. Whilst we're all working to take down the Co$ we have to be careful to make sure that the FZ doesn't become the bastard child we ignore and thus we don't take out one head of the hydra and ignore the two that spawn in it's place.
  24. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    So far Terril, you've been the only one here running scared. You've missed Robert S. question numerous times, and I still think you are feeding your own ego maniacal needs by continuously starting inflammatory threads here, rather than contributing.

    If you are going to resort to baseless personal attacks kindly GTFO. And please, go an hero.

    At least MPB is irritating while contributing :)razz:) but you're just irritating at this point.
  25. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Me too. Would love to talk. :) Can do so for free to the US. You can PM me
    if your interested.

    Samual Hughes and fearsome moggie you guys rock. :)
  26. googoomuck Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Enough with the personal digs, MPB and Terril. Take that shit to the dome.

    Further personal attacks in this thread- by anyone- will be infracted.
  27. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Hughes and moggie made some very good points and I have a lot of respect for the way they approached this. I respect that a lot.

    Do you audit engrams?
  28. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You a moderator?

    I've had enormous shit told to me on this thread. I really don't have a problem with it. I do not need protecting.

    My comments to MPB are really in fun. I take no offence from anyone.
    MPBs comments to me may possibly not be in fun but I believe sincerely meant.

    I have no problem with that.

    Don't have a problem being in the dome iether. Been there, have the T-shirt. :)

    I opened this thread on a political/protest basis. Seems many want to comment. Is this good or bad?

    What I know is that anon on the streets are polite, considerate,
    interested in the FZ and non hostile to it. If any have different views they didn't talk to me about it. I'd have no problem if they did.

    The London Police praised them.

    Why do you moderate the basically polite, if dramatic comm with MPB and myself and ignore the extreme attacks on the FZ and or/myself?

    What are your guidelines of moderation? I really don't understand.
  29. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I have done so.:)

    I only solo audit nowdays.
  30. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Attacks on the FZ are not personal attacks. Attacks on you, yes they are. And the mod was prolly trying to cut it off before it gets to nothing but a flamewar.
  31. googoomuck Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Edit: yes, I'm a mod.
    Opinions, whether they are pro- or anti- FZ, are welcome here. So is critique of those opinions.

    What's not ok, per the forum rules and guidelines, is personal attacks (flaming) on other forum members outside of the Thunderdome.

    Here's a link to the rules and guidelines of the forum:
    Enturbulation.org Activism Forums - Announcements in Forum : General Discussion
  32. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    You're doing solo auditing at OT levels? Do you work with people who audit engrams currently?
  33. googoomuck Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Pretty much, yeah. I'd like to keep the thread in the realm of spirited conversation instead of consigning part or all of it to the Dome if at all possible.
  34. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    OK. Nice guidelines, and probably hell to moderate. :)

    I'll try and do better.
  35. basic2basic Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Yes.
  36. wat Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I read some historical peer reviews about the beginnings of the Christian church. It was originally viewed as a sect of Judaism. Many viewed it a just some other movement. Mainly Jews were interested in this; a great deal of the churchs, like the one in Antioch, held traditional Judiastic values like circumcision, kosher behavior, etc. However they believed in Jesus of Nazareth as their messiah.

    As a Hellenistic Jew, Peter decided to steer the church toward Roman culture (maybe because he thought it was cool). Most Christians today are too worldly for the originals to consider them worthy of the Lord (Remember the New Testament wasn't written yet). The exclusive status that the original church had kept it uniform, but now it's all fucked up.
  37. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Correct. I'm not a Scientologist. I used to be. I used to also play at being a Scientologist freed from the tyranny of the CoS, until I learned that so much insane policy and group think was imbedded into the whole Scientology universe, that there was no sane group based on that reality possible.

    what that leaves, is a person free to just look at the theories and procedures, and try them without the authoritarian manipulation attached.

    I've found that Hubbard actually came up with some good ideas. You just can't get at them from within the cult. They don't permit you to learn and understand. they insist on indoctrinating you and making you use the stuff in a certain way, and always blame YOU for failures.

    And I'm one of those Samuel mentioned who'd love to see some of this stuff actually clinically tested to see what's what. Because I think some of it could be of significant use, if it was sanely used, and only ever for the benefit of the recipient, and for no other reason. Which seldom happens in the CoS anymore. It's all money there. Freezone is much more interested in just plain old help. You can tell that when you are involved with them. even the ones marching to Hubbards orders still, believe they are helping.

    I don't know how staff in orgs can be interested in helping people and not be conflicted on a daily basis, by what they are required to do. There was a good thread on psychology on this subject and other subjects.
  38. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    If by that you mean some haven't abandoned LRH tech, you are very correct. In fact some Freezone groups have that CoS feel to them that almost hurts to experience again. But they don't do well. People just look at them and go "huh?"
  39. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Since there are SPs, then I assume there are people who go PTS? Is that a fair assumption? If that's so how do you handle someone who is PTS? Is disconnection an option for them?

    Also I take it you know about the UCLA tests in 1950 that couldn't replicate an engram, right? Yet - as you've said before - obviously something is happening because you can attest (going on past conversations we've had here for a sec) that they are feeling better about things or themselves.

    I take it that what is happening, both in the auditing that your colleagues engage in as well as your solo auditing that you use on yourself, is a matter of faith rather than conviction to demonstrable scientific data, right? Your belief system is based on faith that there are such things as SPs, that people go PTS to them, that there are such things as engrams, and that you are helping people go Clear and work into the OT levels. This is faith? Or is it something else?
  40. goldenrodanon Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Ok. now that I'm all re edjumucated, what my comment was trying to convey was that I thought Hubbards analysis of homosexuals as necessarily 1.1 was a crock of shit. any gays I've known were pretty much average in most ways, other than orientation.

    I still stand by the idea that hubbard never made a big deal of it. Just a couple of mentions in a huge body of work. Just one of the areas his head wasn't screwed on quite straight.

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