Freezone+ Anon

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by basic2basic, Jul 10, 2008.

  1. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    After looking over their website I take back 99% of everything I said with regard to *these* freezoners.

    The hypothetical freezoners I was thinking of who I didn't want to see targeted unless they did something badly wrong were more along the lines of a group of ex-$cis who saw some benefits in some of the early stuff that they'd done and met up once a week to audit each other or whatever, plus were happy to let other ex-$cis join.

    Once they start building big organisations, charging each other for certification (while calling it donations) and so on then fuck them. What do they need all the adminstration for other than to create shit like the Co$ has?
  2. wat Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Do most Free-Zoners despise CoS policies, or do they just not prefer it? I fancy it is the former.

    How can we prove that Free-Zoners support this message, without having to mix up with them? Obviously not all anons are particularly for ideological liberty, but rather being sensible. Some find the protests to make people smarter altogether, rather than just liberating them; I don't blame them really, we're at liberty to say that they're still lulz worthy, but they have no crimes, amirite?

    Are anti-FZ anons concerned about the possibility of the Free-Zoners becoming corrupt?
  3. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    exactly how do you apply scientology correctly and receive a benefit? there is no evidence to validate it. selling people a placebo effect or convincing them something is efficacious when it's not is NOT GOOD. PERIOD. we may as well turn them out of the 'church' and over to ANY scam artist or bullshit self-help system if we endorse free zone practices.

    i do not endorse the tech.

  4. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ^also this

    if we can request dome it should work the other way too.


  5. King Nerd Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ANY use of the tech corrupts.
  6. Daywatch Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    actually all the evidence is to the CONTRARY of it being helpful

    and why to we put up with fagzoners recruiting when we wouldnt any other ...religion
  7. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    if you have arthritis do you have an arthritis? or do you have a certain set of symptoms commonly defined as arthritis?
  8. King Nerd Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Good fucking point.
    Also, bonus points for using the term fagzoners. I lol'd.
  9. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Thank you. I was looking for a disease that would work with that analogy while working.
  10. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    That's the same point I was making.
    They're all on the conceptual level rather than the physical level.
  11. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    what level of physicality does reality itself have for you?
  12. Asterix Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    What's this thread about now?

    Depression? I guess that makes sense when talking about Scientology and how it's nothing but a sham.


    and by target I mean

    OT this rubbish.
  13. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A disease is an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs bodily functions. It is also defined as a way of the body harming its self in an abnormal way,[1] associated with specific symptoms and signs.[2][3]

    In human beings,"disease" is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes extreme pain, dysfunction, distress, social problems, and/or death to the person afflicted, or similar problems for those in contact with the person. In this broader sense, it sometimes includes injuries, disabilities, disorders, syndromes, infections, isolated symptoms, deviant behaviors, and atypical variations of structure and function, while in other contexts and for other purposes these may be considered distinguishable categories.


    This sounds pretty physical to me.
  14. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    i think this is on target... i think that what they're getting at is that mental illness is 'conceptual' so therefore freezoners don't have to have scientific evidence for their belief system.
  15. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I think OP and all other freezoners have vacated this thread. I smell defeat.
  16. themadhair Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Despite my doubts about auditing, in that I think it is impossible to have regular session and not get mindfucked, I have generally held the FZ as being a non-threat. This thread has gone someway to changing that opinion.

    Exhibit A:
    The only reasonable response to this statement is to tell you to GTFO. The reason I am so pissed at this comment is because in the act of making it you have made an equivalence claim between two established fields of science and Hubbard moonshine. Seriously GTFO.

    Exhibit B:
    Resisting the urge to quip about body thetans/engrams, this is argumentum ad ignorantiam. At this point you ARE peddling Hubbard moonshine and using your own ignorance/prejudice/brainwashing to justify it.

    So, kindly and respectfully,[size=+2]GTFO[/size]
  17. Ironhead Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    when CoS falls, and DM is behind bars, geuss who gets the new monopoly on LRH's little scheme? that's right, it will be DIET SCIENTOLOGY! aka freezone. so it will be them advising people to steer clear of medications, and spreading cure-all snake oil, only with a kinder gentler spin on everything. a polished turd is still a turd.

    No OSA and RPF? well that's great, but who's to say it wont come back later on from the hardcore ronbots, just with new names.

    for a simpleton wog such as myself, tech is tech. and the tech has been shown to be harmful time after time. We shouldn't turn our backs on the FZ for a second.
  18. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    No, the disease isn't physical. The symptoms are physical. The disease is a way of categorising sets of symptoms so that they can be treated.

    If you ask a $cientologist how he knows somebody has an engram he'll probably tell you it's because of symptoms x,y,z and behaviours a,b,c.
    If you ask a doctor why he's diagnosed somebody as having a phobia (or arthritis for that matter) he'll probably tell you it's because of symptoms x,y,z and behaviours a,b,c.

    The argument that they can't show us an engram isn't a good one. A better argument would be to ask them to show us what advantage engrams have over other psychological models. They wouldn't be able to give a good answer to that, and it's a good question.

    Just because $cientology is a bad thing and an argument is against $cientology, doesn't mean it's a good argument.
  19. King Nerd Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Give them another week or so. OP will make another lousy thread. He always does. What a good little salesman, amirite?

    When will they learn the majority of us don't give a crap how "different" they are. Its still tech. Its still harmful.

    Furthermore, I agree 100% that when the Co$ is no more, Freezone will take its place.
  20. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    seriously -- what are you getting at?

    the advantage that current psychological models have is that they have been shown to have some application in the practice of helping people recover from mental illness.

    results. evidence. savvy? unless scientology can show this, they are not a science.
  21. Asterix Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I'll give you a better example.

    Gout, symptoms intense joint pain. Diagnosed by a simple blood test looking at uric acid levels and treatable by reducing purine intake.

    Show me the engram in that? While medicine might be "voodoo" in some extents they are still researching and finding out where they are wrong and right.

    Scientology has some whacked out dude in the 1950s who was scared of a coming nuclear war write some shit, steal some othershit didn't put it through anything resembling trials and calls it a religion?

    Seriously, no. Just no.
  22. Ironhead Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    oh, but they're a "religion" so it's ok, they don't need evidence. (please note tone of sarcasm)
  23. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    When their tech says that an engram has "measurable mass, engergy, and location" then yes. The argument is valid.

    It can be proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that a hydrogen atom has mass, energy, and location.

    To try and split hairs about this is inane at best, stupid at worst. When something is claimed, proof is needed.

    The "model" so to speak of engrams and the whole tech have already been disproved in peer reviewed journals. It is crap. It has been proven to be crap. The only reason the term "religion" was applied to the whole scam was to avoid tax evasion charges.

    Again, the fact that a Dr. diagnoses diseases bases on symptoms related to a Scientologist saying en engram exist bases on symptom is again stupid. Diseases have gone through peer review, studies, etc. and have been empirically proven.

    The quack science of dianetics has undergone peer reviewed studies and shown to be patently false.

    So, you can't make a comparison between these. It's a logical fallacy known as false analogy or better known as "Apples to Oranges".
  24. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    *noting sarcasm*

    they try to have the both of best worlds... to be a scientific religion. they claim that what they do is science -- they need to back that up or shut up.

    they're neither science nor religion.

    they're a self-help scam that's gotten way out of hand.
  25. King Nerd Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Using Science, its easy to discover the tech is NOT a science.
  26. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Wait no... we've been over this. Per Scientology it is a PHYSICAL ITEM with an electric charge. But when UCLA and the Dianetics Foundation itself tried to CREATE one it was a flop.

    Dig... Operation Clambake present: The Hubbard Is Bare
  27. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Yeah and the $clion's argument back can be that they diagnose engrams by whatever they do (probably involving an e-meter or something).
    No matter how many physical illnesses we mention, saying "Show me an engram" is still a bad argument when they could just shout back "Show me a phobia" or "Show me a gout" for that matter.

    If you show them somebody with gout and a blood test for uric acid, they'll show you somebody with what they describe as an engram and whatever test s they used to diagnose it.

    When it comes to being able to easily counter their stupidity it's better to have an argument that doesn't have an obvious hole in it.
  28. Daywatch Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    when they come back I start with no kid gloves
    stupid fagzoners
  29. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon


  30. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    And that's a far better argument than whether you can see an engram or not.

    edited to add: As is the post you made while I was posting this.
  31. SamJac55 Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    ^^^ this sums it up for me
  32. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    so you talk about atomic theory and i talk about my theory of fairies and we're BOTH GOOD TO GO AMIRITE?

    fucking christ.
  33. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Sorry, getting too excited arguing on the internet about abstract concepts. I'll shut up now.
  34. Robert S Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    An engram is to a psychosomatic illness, condition, or consideration as a gonor is to a rhea :mrgreen:
  35. FearsomeMoggy Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Just to clarify, I'm not a freezoner. I was talking about possible holes in our arguments against them, not advocating what they do.
  36. cubby Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    fearsomemoggy, i realize you aren't a freezoner... but i think that you think just making an argument for something that SOUNDS all right is as good as having evidence to back it up.
  37. coslies Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Could it be it's just a few guys at the top who see Co$ make a lot of money and are trying to do the same with the Freezone?
  38. Re: Freezone+ Anon

    If scientology does fall, it will go down so hard that the FZ won't have a chance to take it over. Once burnt, twice shy, authorities will be wary of aknowledging the 'new' Co$ after what happened last time. At best, they'll be one of hundreds of bogus self-help groups.
  39. King Nerd Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    I'm not a $cientologist but... :p
  40. anonymusicz Member

    Re: Freezone+ Anon

    Quite possibly. But both are peddling cold piles of dog shit. No matter the name, it is what it is.

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